Can anyone recommend the best mainsail arrangement. Ordering, I've been asked about the amount of reefing points, and whether I want a Cunningham which I am familiar with however, I'm a bit of novice due to lack of sailing for many years then picking it up again. I have a 25' sloop, any recs. appreciated, thanks.
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Depends on sail size and area sailing
Depends on where you sail and size of the boat/keel. I have a Hunter 25 currently and it has only one set of reefing points which I think is plenty. I do mostly sound and river sailing in North Carolina. If you do offshore sailing maybe an extra reef may be needed but I doubt it. Cunningham is great again if you do offshore work or live in an area you might do ocean sailing/heavy wind sailing from time to time. Mine has the cunningham if needed.
Depends on where you sail and size of the boat/keel. I have a Hunter 25 currently and it has only one set of reefing points which I think is plenty. I do mostly sound and river sailing in North Carolina. If you do offshore sailing maybe an extra reef may be needed but I doubt it. Cunningham is great again if you do offshore work or live in an area you might do ocean sailing/heavy wind sailing from time to time. Mine has the cunningham if needed.
Cunningham
Eight inches off the base should do it. Larger problem is getting dimensions right. I've worked with Doyle Sails and they're very good as well as very accurate. They're linked to this website.
Eight inches off the base should do it. Larger problem is getting dimensions right. I've worked with Doyle Sails and they're very good as well as very accurate. They're linked to this website.
Reefing Points
I sail a C22 on an inland lake. I purchased a new mainsail and ordered a second reef with the sail. I am very grateful that I did. I have used the 2nd reef 3 times this past season. It only cost a small percentage more in the price, and if you don't need it, dont use it. However If you need a 2nd reef and don't have one, you'll really regret not spending the few extra dollars.
I sail a C22 on an inland lake. I purchased a new mainsail and ordered a second reef with the sail. I am very grateful that I did. I have used the 2nd reef 3 times this past season. It only cost a small percentage more in the price, and if you don't need it, dont use it. However If you need a 2nd reef and don't have one, you'll really regret not spending the few extra dollars.
Reef Points
Another overlooked issue with the choice of one reef or two is: if you have only one reef, it must be a fairly deep reef. While with two reefs, each one won't be quite as drastic; the second reef will actually be deeper over all than a single reefed sail, and you may be able to ballance the boat with a working jib or with a Genoa depending on the combination of reef points and the wind strengths.
Another overlooked issue with the choice of one reef or two is: if you have only one reef, it must be a fairly deep reef. While with two reefs, each one won't be quite as drastic; the second reef will actually be deeper over all than a single reefed sail, and you may be able to ballance the boat with a working jib or with a Genoa depending on the combination of reef points and the wind strengths.
Reading these posts...
...about a cunningham. A cunningham has absolutely nothing to do with "offshore" sailing or racing or anything else. It's a sail control plain and simple. Some sailors don't know how to use it and some simply choose not to, but it is just another sail control that you should have and use constantly.
...about a cunningham. A cunningham has absolutely nothing to do with "offshore" sailing or racing or anything else. It's a sail control plain and simple. Some sailors don't know how to use it and some simply choose not to, but it is just another sail control that you should have and use constantly.
Sine, One reef is more than enough
for a 25' boat. My reef point is 4' into the sail which is a pretty deep reef but my sail is a high aspect sail (tall and skinny) It takes the wind right out of it. Cunninghams? Alan is right they are great and could and should be used by all sailors. The cummingham allows you to flatten the sail prior to reefing or to let it be fuller should the wind lighten. My cunningham is 12" above the tack,(luff 24.5' foot 9' leech 25.8')well into the sailshape is important. r.w.landau
for a 25' boat. My reef point is 4' into the sail which is a pretty deep reef but my sail is a high aspect sail (tall and skinny) It takes the wind right out of it. Cunninghams? Alan is right they are great and could and should be used by all sailors. The cummingham allows you to flatten the sail prior to reefing or to let it be fuller should the wind lighten. My cunningham is 12" above the tack,(luff 24.5' foot 9' leech 25.8')well into the sailshape is important. r.w.landau
Spreader Patches
Remember to ask for spreader patches - for the full main and when it is reefed. Another little details - check what they will provide for the leach tensioner. Some systems are easier to use than others. You want one that you can adjust with one hand because you'll need the other to hold on with. Also, you don't want it too high up.
Remember to ask for spreader patches - for the full main and when it is reefed. Another little details - check what they will provide for the leach tensioner. Some systems are easier to use than others. You want one that you can adjust with one hand because you'll need the other to hold on with. Also, you don't want it too high up.
Sail designs
A lot depends on where you sail and how you sail. A blue water sailor needs a very different sail than someone who mostly day sails on rivers, lakes, and bays. Knowing your boat's capabilities, and your own, in rough weather is also important in buying a sail that fits both. In a lot of years of sailing, I've had a lot of different types and designs of mainsails. I personally think that one set of reef points is plenty for most coastal cruising, depending on what other sails you have including furling/reefing headsails. For most of this type of "coastal" sailing, if I needed to put in a double reef in my main, I would probably be dropping the main entirely and sailing on a small, or reefed/furled headsail, or motoring home.
A lot depends on where you sail and how you sail. A blue water sailor needs a very different sail than someone who mostly day sails on rivers, lakes, and bays. Knowing your boat's capabilities, and your own, in rough weather is also important in buying a sail that fits both. In a lot of years of sailing, I've had a lot of different types and designs of mainsails. I personally think that one set of reef points is plenty for most coastal cruising, depending on what other sails you have including furling/reefing headsails. For most of this type of "coastal" sailing, if I needed to put in a double reef in my main, I would probably be dropping the main entirely and sailing on a small, or reefed/furled headsail, or motoring home.
cunningham question
Hello, Regarding the cunningham, can you make the same sail controls with the main halyard? If not, why not? Note that I am describing a cruising boat - no worry about race rules or things like that. Thanks, Barry
Hello, Regarding the cunningham, can you make the same sail controls with the main halyard? If not, why not? Note that I am describing a cruising boat - no worry about race rules or things like that. Thanks, Barry
Cunningham same as halyard tension?
Sort of. Both will tighten the luff of the main, theerby moving the draft forward and de-powering the sail. However, due to friction (and stretch) between the luff and the mainsail attachments, the halyard is better at tightening the top 2/3 of the mainsail luff while the cunningham tightens the bottom 1/3. Since most of the sail area is in the bottom of the sail, the cunningham is probably more effective in flattening the main than the main halyard is. Steve Alchemist C-320 #909
Sort of. Both will tighten the luff of the main, theerby moving the draft forward and de-powering the sail. However, due to friction (and stretch) between the luff and the mainsail attachments, the halyard is better at tightening the top 2/3 of the mainsail luff while the cunningham tightens the bottom 1/3. Since most of the sail area is in the bottom of the sail, the cunningham is probably more effective in flattening the main than the main halyard is. Steve Alchemist C-320 #909
loose-footed main is another issue
When I owned a Catalina 25 there was a lot of discussion on their association forums about converting to loose-footed mains rather than continuing to use mains that track in the boom slot. Those who converted swore by the loose-footed setup, feeling it gave them much more sail shape control for light air work, which is a pretty common problem. I also read a British book on dinghy sailing published in the '90s that said that on the British racing scene all new dinghies were being set up with loose-footed mains for the same reason. So if you're getting a new sail made and doing some jiggering with your sail controls you'll want to study this issue as well...
When I owned a Catalina 25 there was a lot of discussion on their association forums about converting to loose-footed mains rather than continuing to use mains that track in the boom slot. Those who converted swore by the loose-footed setup, feeling it gave them much more sail shape control for light air work, which is a pretty common problem. I also read a British book on dinghy sailing published in the '90s that said that on the British racing scene all new dinghies were being set up with loose-footed mains for the same reason. So if you're getting a new sail made and doing some jiggering with your sail controls you'll want to study this issue as well...
What is the downside?
Assuming that you will economize by getting a dacron sail, adding the cunningham and second reef should cost no more than a few bucks if anything, so why not add those features? The sailmaker will probably recommend a loose-footed main and there is no reason not to go against it as many have already said in other posts. We used the second reef once this fall, and could have used it a lot more if we sailed during the week instead of working
. Barry, did you choose sails yet?
Assuming that you will economize by getting a dacron sail, adding the cunningham and second reef should cost no more than a few bucks if anything, so why not add those features? The sailmaker will probably recommend a loose-footed main and there is no reason not to go against it as many have already said in other posts. We used the second reef once this fall, and could have used it a lot more if we sailed during the week instead of working
. Barry, did you choose sails yet?Reef point needs depend on the winds
you need (or want) to be able to sail in, what headsail options you have available, and how your boat handles heavy air. And, of course, what options you have if you cannot reduce sail enough when the need arises. An extra set of reef points adds little to cost, doesn't add much weight to the sail, and would always be available if the need arose. As was pointed out, you could go for a couple of shallower reefs rather than a single deep one and get more flexibility to fine tune to conditions and potentially keep your crew happy. I sail my Chrysler 26 inland, but have intentionally sailed her in winds 33-37 kt apparent, gusting beyond 40 kt (as measured on backstay with small digital anemometer... a buddy with an analog masthead anemometer registered somewhat higher steady state air and brief gusts much, much higher). A lee shore is always fairly close, although since waves are small I guess dropping the sails and motoring, or running off and hiding in the lee of an island, would be an option if it became unmanageable. The Chrysler 26, a relatively narrow Halsey Herreshoff design, is initially tender, although firms up as she heels and feels very secure to me. I have two deep reefs in the main (48" and 96") and use my second reef quite a bit this time of year. My (too) heavy 150% genny maintains an OK shape when furled down to about 90%, and if it's blowing so hard I need less sail than I'm not as worried about effective shape. If it's blowing hard, though, I usually switch to a 70 sq ft heavy weather jib before leaving the dock. Several times a year I'd be glad of a third reef, and a 35 sq ft or so storm jib. Both are on the agenda for next year. If I were on the coast, would I intentionally head out in winds that high? Not likely. However, I'd want to be able to handle them as well as possible if they materialized while I was out. Fair Winds, Jeff s/v Windward 1978 Chrysler 26 #481
you need (or want) to be able to sail in, what headsail options you have available, and how your boat handles heavy air. And, of course, what options you have if you cannot reduce sail enough when the need arises. An extra set of reef points adds little to cost, doesn't add much weight to the sail, and would always be available if the need arose. As was pointed out, you could go for a couple of shallower reefs rather than a single deep one and get more flexibility to fine tune to conditions and potentially keep your crew happy. I sail my Chrysler 26 inland, but have intentionally sailed her in winds 33-37 kt apparent, gusting beyond 40 kt (as measured on backstay with small digital anemometer... a buddy with an analog masthead anemometer registered somewhat higher steady state air and brief gusts much, much higher). A lee shore is always fairly close, although since waves are small I guess dropping the sails and motoring, or running off and hiding in the lee of an island, would be an option if it became unmanageable. The Chrysler 26, a relatively narrow Halsey Herreshoff design, is initially tender, although firms up as she heels and feels very secure to me. I have two deep reefs in the main (48" and 96") and use my second reef quite a bit this time of year. My (too) heavy 150% genny maintains an OK shape when furled down to about 90%, and if it's blowing so hard I need less sail than I'm not as worried about effective shape. If it's blowing hard, though, I usually switch to a 70 sq ft heavy weather jib before leaving the dock. Several times a year I'd be glad of a third reef, and a 35 sq ft or so storm jib. Both are on the agenda for next year. If I were on the coast, would I intentionally head out in winds that high? Not likely. However, I'd want to be able to handle them as well as possible if they materialized while I was out. Fair Winds, Jeff s/v Windward 1978 Chrysler 26 #481
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