I am looking at buying a MKII Cat 30....is there any reason to look at, or not look at a 1987 vs 1988 vs 1989? I was wondering if any of these model years had any known issues (engine issues, mast compression, keel bolts???) that may have been solved in later models? Appreciate any feedback!
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survey
There are no know problems which are year specific that I know of. It all depends on how the previous owner(s)treated it. Start with the youngest boat and go from there. I bought my 87' a few years ago and the first thing that sold me was the general condition of the boat, not a lot of stress cracks and no awlgrip to hide any either. Chech the compression post and the condition of the deck around the mast step. Look at the bilge and keel bolt condition. If you get the HIN off the starboard transom, under the rub rail, you can find how the boat was sold originally.
There are no know problems which are year specific that I know of. It all depends on how the previous owner(s)treated it. Start with the youngest boat and go from there. I bought my 87' a few years ago and the first thing that sold me was the general condition of the boat, not a lot of stress cracks and no awlgrip to hide any either. Chech the compression post and the condition of the deck around the mast step. Look at the bilge and keel bolt condition. If you get the HIN off the starboard transom, under the rub rail, you can find how the boat was sold originally.
Catalina Associations Are Valuable
Jeff In addition to the survey suggestion, try the related link. Stu
Jeff In addition to the survey suggestion, try the related link. Stu
The hulls have been the same for almost 30 years.
There are always small changes from model year to model year but there were some years that major changes took place. Check out the International Catalina 30 Association website. There is a chart showing the years and hull numbers of major design changes. I don't think there was anything major between '87 and '89. Those boats should pretty much look the same. You'll have great fun no matter which one you go with.
There are always small changes from model year to model year but there were some years that major changes took place. Check out the International Catalina 30 Association website. There is a chart showing the years and hull numbers of major design changes. I don't think there was anything major between '87 and '89. Those boats should pretty much look the same. You'll have great fun no matter which one you go with.
Some changes in '89
As I understand it, there were some changes in '89 that some might consider significant. (My surveyor thinks they were significant enough that he dates the MK-III model from '89, rather than '93 as the factory does, on the theory that many of the features that distinguished the MK-III from the MK-II were introduced in '89; just one man's opinion.) I'm not certain as to what all those changes were, but I do know you can tell you are looking at an updated model if it has a forward-facing nav table; pre-'89 models have a side-facing table. In comparing boats of this vintage, check out the shape of the cockpit; my '89 has a T-shaped cockpit designed for wheel steering; for a while C-30s had come with wheel steering but still had an I-shaped cockpit designed for a tiller. As part of that change, I think Catalina also changed the transom/swim ladder arrangement to allow you to step through the stern rail. I'd also compare the engines in '87-'89 boats; by '89 they had the 21-hp Universal and that change might have coincided with the others. Finally, compare the keels; the wing keel came on the scene some time in that era, I believe. Having just finished my first year as an '89 owner, I think you are looking at a great boat. Good luck.
As I understand it, there were some changes in '89 that some might consider significant. (My surveyor thinks they were significant enough that he dates the MK-III model from '89, rather than '93 as the factory does, on the theory that many of the features that distinguished the MK-III from the MK-II were introduced in '89; just one man's opinion.) I'm not certain as to what all those changes were, but I do know you can tell you are looking at an updated model if it has a forward-facing nav table; pre-'89 models have a side-facing table. In comparing boats of this vintage, check out the shape of the cockpit; my '89 has a T-shaped cockpit designed for wheel steering; for a while C-30s had come with wheel steering but still had an I-shaped cockpit designed for a tiller. As part of that change, I think Catalina also changed the transom/swim ladder arrangement to allow you to step through the stern rail. I'd also compare the engines in '87-'89 boats; by '89 they had the 21-hp Universal and that change might have coincided with the others. Finally, compare the keels; the wing keel came on the scene some time in that era, I believe. Having just finished my first year as an '89 owner, I think you are looking at a great boat. Good luck.
Can't go too wrong
Mine is a 90, the T shaped cockpit and the wing keel were the big advantages. I sail in shoal water and with 3'10" draft I can get almost anywhere. The changes over the years have not been significant, she is a winning design and if you look closely you will notice how much the later and greater models replicate the C30. Good luck. JS PS: I only wish I had the bigger engine.
Mine is a 90, the T shaped cockpit and the wing keel were the big advantages. I sail in shoal water and with 3'10" draft I can get almost anywhere. The changes over the years have not been significant, she is a winning design and if you look closely you will notice how much the later and greater models replicate the C30. Good luck. JS PS: I only wish I had the bigger engine.
Dave my 88
has fowarding facing nav table, T cockpit, and the M25XP Uni (btw the manufactor rates them at 23hp) although you should put alot of faith into your surveyor I believe Catalina probally knows more about their boats than he does. I also have the wing keel.
has fowarding facing nav table, T cockpit, and the M25XP Uni (btw the manufactor rates them at 23hp) although you should put alot of faith into your surveyor I believe Catalina probally knows more about their boats than he does. I also have the wing keel.
Changes must have been mid-'88
Dan: It sounds like our boats are close siblings. As told to me, the changes I described occurred in mid-year but I didn't know which year. Your post shows it must have been mid-'88. (Maybe earlier upgrades is yet another advantage of sailing in FL over the soon-to-be-frozen Great Lakes.) Which proves that it's more important to look at the features you are interested in than the year or the model designation. As for the "MK-III" designation, that's really just a marketing term, undoubtedly designed in part to justify a price increase. The point is that when some of the features that distinguish the new model are added before the marketing folks change the model name, there is value to be had in buying the old model with the new features. As I understand it, the '88-'93 C-30s present that opportunity for someone interested in the features we're talking about. In any event, these are things for someone comparing late-'80s boats to look for.
Dan: It sounds like our boats are close siblings. As told to me, the changes I described occurred in mid-year but I didn't know which year. Your post shows it must have been mid-'88. (Maybe earlier upgrades is yet another advantage of sailing in FL over the soon-to-be-frozen Great Lakes.) Which proves that it's more important to look at the features you are interested in than the year or the model designation. As for the "MK-III" designation, that's really just a marketing term, undoubtedly designed in part to justify a price increase. The point is that when some of the features that distinguish the new model are added before the marketing folks change the model name, there is value to be had in buying the old model with the new features. As I understand it, the '88-'93 C-30s present that opportunity for someone interested in the features we're talking about. In any event, these are things for someone comparing late-'80s boats to look for.
Mark II was introduced with the '87 Model Year
The 'T' Shaped cockpit, Universal M-25XP, the forward facing nav station and standard wheel steering were introduced with the 1987 model year (produced starting in late 86). In addition, the cabin top traveler was changed from an arched abortion to a flat track. This also made the companionway slightly narrower at the top than with previous years. The pushpit rail was split into two halves with a walk through area for the aft boarding ladder Some time in 1990 = 1991, a few Mark IIs were produced with a walk-through transom. These boats still had the narrow stern, but the aft lazarette was split into twp parts, and a gap was cut into the center of the transom to enable people to walk through. In 1993, the Mark III was introduced with a much broader transom than either the Mark I or the Mark II models. You will make no mistake identifying a Mark III. It has a purpose built walk-through transom with a boarding area and a step up into the cockpit. The stern boarding ladder mounts to this scoop. About this time, the wing keel was also introduced. Although there may be some late Mark IIs with wing keels, this option didn't appear until after 1990, and I don't think that it was available until the Mark IIIs. The primary differences between the Mark III and the Mark II are the width of the stern (the Mark III has a real wide rear-end) and the fairly well designed and executed walk-through transom. You can't go too wrong with either a Mark II or a Mark III. Good luck
The 'T' Shaped cockpit, Universal M-25XP, the forward facing nav station and standard wheel steering were introduced with the 1987 model year (produced starting in late 86). In addition, the cabin top traveler was changed from an arched abortion to a flat track. This also made the companionway slightly narrower at the top than with previous years. The pushpit rail was split into two halves with a walk through area for the aft boarding ladder Some time in 1990 = 1991, a few Mark IIs were produced with a walk-through transom. These boats still had the narrow stern, but the aft lazarette was split into twp parts, and a gap was cut into the center of the transom to enable people to walk through. In 1993, the Mark III was introduced with a much broader transom than either the Mark I or the Mark II models. You will make no mistake identifying a Mark III. It has a purpose built walk-through transom with a boarding area and a step up into the cockpit. The stern boarding ladder mounts to this scoop. About this time, the wing keel was also introduced. Although there may be some late Mark IIs with wing keels, this option didn't appear until after 1990, and I don't think that it was available until the Mark IIIs. The primary differences between the Mark III and the Mark II are the width of the stern (the Mark III has a real wide rear-end) and the fairly well designed and executed walk-through transom. You can't go too wrong with either a Mark II or a Mark III. Good luck
Follow up question
Thanks for the feedback, I was wondering if any issues with the keelbolts, mast compression or chainplates had been solved by '88, '89' or '90. Jeff
Thanks for the feedback, I was wondering if any issues with the keelbolts, mast compression or chainplates had been solved by '88, '89' or '90. Jeff
Not that I am aware of
To the best of my knowledge, the 87 and the 88 (and probably all before and after) both have a wooden block under the compression post. There are several articles both here (search the archives) and in the IC30A website that describe how to replace that when (not if) it rots. My 87 had a block of what looked like mahogany (as the support for the keel) glassed into the keel sump. The keel bolts were stainless and capped with some (i think) polyester resin (or maybe epoxy, who knows?) Some of the earlier (and perhaps later ones) had plywood for this critical support member, and I have heard of some of them rotting after they got wet. The travler supports are moulded out of fiberglass with the backing plate glassed into the layup. On both sides, one bolt goes through into the cabin for through bolting. If the bedding on the traveler track has broken down, those hollow bumps can fill with water that seeps in from the top. This is noticible due to staining around the through bolts (don't ask me how I found this one out). The Catalina factory was always making slight improvements to these boats over the course of the production run, so there are probably a few minor changes between 1987 and 1992, but for the most part, I don't think that any one of these years was to be avoided over any other. My wife ans I got tired of sleeping on the dinette, and upsized to a 320, but I can't say too much good about my 6 year experience with my 1987 C30T. Steve
To the best of my knowledge, the 87 and the 88 (and probably all before and after) both have a wooden block under the compression post. There are several articles both here (search the archives) and in the IC30A website that describe how to replace that when (not if) it rots. My 87 had a block of what looked like mahogany (as the support for the keel) glassed into the keel sump. The keel bolts were stainless and capped with some (i think) polyester resin (or maybe epoxy, who knows?) Some of the earlier (and perhaps later ones) had plywood for this critical support member, and I have heard of some of them rotting after they got wet. The travler supports are moulded out of fiberglass with the backing plate glassed into the layup. On both sides, one bolt goes through into the cabin for through bolting. If the bedding on the traveler track has broken down, those hollow bumps can fill with water that seeps in from the top. This is noticible due to staining around the through bolts (don't ask me how I found this one out). The Catalina factory was always making slight improvements to these boats over the course of the production run, so there are probably a few minor changes between 1987 and 1992, but for the most part, I don't think that any one of these years was to be avoided over any other. My wife ans I got tired of sleeping on the dinette, and upsized to a 320, but I can't say too much good about my 6 year experience with my 1987 C30T. Steve
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