Hi All: A number of years ago I took a beginner saling course at OCC. This course was taught on the 14' lido's. I had full intentions of going all the way through the courses, but job, business travel, and other time demands prevented me from doing so. Now of course it's the kids and soccer, the dog, house and all the other time evaporating demands that we as adults face each day. And of course the job too. Well, sailing has always fascinated me, and I really enjoyed my brief flirtation with the sport. Anyway's, while having lunch in San Diego last week at the Marina, looking out at the boats, I said to my luch companion that I would like to get a boat, and she said why don't you. And I thought hell why don't I. So now I am trying to learn about boats. Of course that I do not know how to sail, ( a fact that my wife likes to point out) does not deter me. So, please good people of wisdom I beseech you to attempt to educate me in the wordly ways of boating. I am currently looking at used boats, as they are priced very reasonably 2500 - 5,000. These boats tend to be 20 - 30 years old, but I figure that they may be good to learn on. Is this a good idea? My ideal use of the boat would be coastal sailing and maybe some overnight (local) trips. I would like the boat to be able to accomadate 4-5 people day sailing , with sleeping for 2 or 4. I also would like to be able to sail by myself. Am I asking to much? Should I learn to sail first and then buy the boat, or should I learn to sail the boat that I buy? What is the difference in the keels? What should I look for in a used boat? I am driving myself crazy! If I bought the boat, would it be difficult to find someone to teach me if I offered them the use of the boat? Thanks for listening to my completly unfocused rant. Any help would be appreciated. Todd
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M
Miles
If I were you...
Before you buy a boat you might want to try out a few different ones. There are lots of sailing schools and sailing clubs around in SoCal. Maybe you can charter a boat similar to what you think you want (with a captain) and try it out for an afternoon. This could be a very good reality check before you buy something. You can daysail 4 or 5 people on pretty much anything but to sleep 4 comfortably (unless you're all VERY good friends...)and cruise the California coast you should probably be looking at something around 30 feet. With experience you'll have no problems singlehanding a boat this size. Figure out what you can afford to spend on a boat, don't forget the slip, insurance, maintainence, etc. These things are not cheap. Then look at lots of boats in your price range. The $2500-5000 range you mentioned is pretty low for a cruisable boat but you could certainly find a fun day sailer in that area. Most of the brokers aren't interested in anything under $20k so you'll probably be talking to the sellers directly. Boats are lots of fun and once you decide to get one you're hooked. They can be shockingly expensive to keep and maintain properly. Think of an expensive sports car that soaks in a corrosive acid solution all the time and you'll get the picture. Not trying to turn you off just make sure you understand what this all costs. A 20-30 year old boat that's been well maintained should be fine. Fiberglass is forever (well, except for osmotic blisters...) but the cost of rigging, sails, engines, etc. can easily exceed the cost of an older boat so be sure to check it out well. Have fun with this, it's a great way to spend time! P.S. you've come to a great web site with lots of helpfull people so feel free to ask away!
Before you buy a boat you might want to try out a few different ones. There are lots of sailing schools and sailing clubs around in SoCal. Maybe you can charter a boat similar to what you think you want (with a captain) and try it out for an afternoon. This could be a very good reality check before you buy something. You can daysail 4 or 5 people on pretty much anything but to sleep 4 comfortably (unless you're all VERY good friends...)and cruise the California coast you should probably be looking at something around 30 feet. With experience you'll have no problems singlehanding a boat this size. Figure out what you can afford to spend on a boat, don't forget the slip, insurance, maintainence, etc. These things are not cheap. Then look at lots of boats in your price range. The $2500-5000 range you mentioned is pretty low for a cruisable boat but you could certainly find a fun day sailer in that area. Most of the brokers aren't interested in anything under $20k so you'll probably be talking to the sellers directly. Boats are lots of fun and once you decide to get one you're hooked. They can be shockingly expensive to keep and maintain properly. Think of an expensive sports car that soaks in a corrosive acid solution all the time and you'll get the picture. Not trying to turn you off just make sure you understand what this all costs. A 20-30 year old boat that's been well maintained should be fine. Fiberglass is forever (well, except for osmotic blisters...) but the cost of rigging, sails, engines, etc. can easily exceed the cost of an older boat so be sure to check it out well. Have fun with this, it's a great way to spend time! P.S. you've come to a great web site with lots of helpfull people so feel free to ask away!
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Robert Bonney
Choices
Todd, I don't think you are asking too much. I sailed for a short while in the San Diego area years ago. It is great sailing grounds. There are plenty of boats that fit your price range and the needs you mentioned. The advice that you most often get in response to this question from this forum is to go try a bunch of boats. There should be plenty of them for sale and you should test drive as many of them as possible. The owner/broker will always be willing to take you out on a boat you are interested in. After sailing several, you will begin to see the differences in each and you can begin to narrow your search to particular types of boats and the features of each. You get the added bonus of "free" sailing lessons in the process. I would suggest that you search the arhives here. There are plenty of threads that address you questions. Good Luck!
Todd, I don't think you are asking too much. I sailed for a short while in the San Diego area years ago. It is great sailing grounds. There are plenty of boats that fit your price range and the needs you mentioned. The advice that you most often get in response to this question from this forum is to go try a bunch of boats. There should be plenty of them for sale and you should test drive as many of them as possible. The owner/broker will always be willing to take you out on a boat you are interested in. After sailing several, you will begin to see the differences in each and you can begin to narrow your search to particular types of boats and the features of each. You get the added bonus of "free" sailing lessons in the process. I would suggest that you search the arhives here. There are plenty of threads that address you questions. Good Luck!
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Rip Edmundson
Starting off in sailing
If I were to do it over, I would join the local Community Sailing Center and take some sailing lessons. There I would meet lots of people who own boats and, if my personality wasn't too objectionable, I would get invited to go sailing on lots of different boats. I would hopefully meet someone I could crew for regularly, help with maintenance and learn from. My problem, and that of many people(I suspect), is that we buy a boat before we know what we will like or what to look for. I know many people who spend as much time on the water as I do, and they don't own a boat. Sailors are ALWAYS looking for crew and if you are visible they will snap you up. Learn what shoes to wear, stop smoking (for some captains) and learn a little about which line to pull. OPBC (Other People's Boat Club) is a good way to start. Oh! Also, volunteer to help a friend commission his/her boat for the season before you jump into boat ownership. I know some people who spent 2 hours of maintenance for every hour of sailing on their boat. It is a lot of work. Most of it spent using carcinogenic substances while upside down. Buy a book of sailing jokes and then realize that every single one of the horrific situations has happened to someone the author knows. Then they aren't so funny. You mentioned that you have very little time for the things you are now committed to. A boat is a HUGE commitment of time, even if you never use. If not regularly maintained a boat will deteriorate very quickly. A you are talking about buying a used boat of 20 years old. It will require (you may notice I don't say "may") many hours of work to get it ready for hosting guests. And many more to keep it that way. Good luck with your decision. Just remember the old saying "The two best days in the lives of boaters: The day they buy their boat and the day they sell it".
If I were to do it over, I would join the local Community Sailing Center and take some sailing lessons. There I would meet lots of people who own boats and, if my personality wasn't too objectionable, I would get invited to go sailing on lots of different boats. I would hopefully meet someone I could crew for regularly, help with maintenance and learn from. My problem, and that of many people(I suspect), is that we buy a boat before we know what we will like or what to look for. I know many people who spend as much time on the water as I do, and they don't own a boat. Sailors are ALWAYS looking for crew and if you are visible they will snap you up. Learn what shoes to wear, stop smoking (for some captains) and learn a little about which line to pull. OPBC (Other People's Boat Club) is a good way to start. Oh! Also, volunteer to help a friend commission his/her boat for the season before you jump into boat ownership. I know some people who spent 2 hours of maintenance for every hour of sailing on their boat. It is a lot of work. Most of it spent using carcinogenic substances while upside down. Buy a book of sailing jokes and then realize that every single one of the horrific situations has happened to someone the author knows. Then they aren't so funny. You mentioned that you have very little time for the things you are now committed to. A boat is a HUGE commitment of time, even if you never use. If not regularly maintained a boat will deteriorate very quickly. A you are talking about buying a used boat of 20 years old. It will require (you may notice I don't say "may") many hours of work to get it ready for hosting guests. And many more to keep it that way. Good luck with your decision. Just remember the old saying "The two best days in the lives of boaters: The day they buy their boat and the day they sell it".
J
John
It will cost more than $5,000
I live in maine and we have a lot of boats in the 23-35 foot ranges for about $8,000 to $15,000. This includes boats made in the 70's-late 80's. The only thing is most of these boats will need a good deal of work. Many people bought these boats and they have been sitting around for 5 or 10 years. I think you need to up your price range if you are going to get a quality boat. Also, to sleep 4 people comfortably you will need at least a 30 footer. PLan on spending more than 20k for a boat that will give you some good use out of it. Happy Hunting
I live in maine and we have a lot of boats in the 23-35 foot ranges for about $8,000 to $15,000. This includes boats made in the 70's-late 80's. The only thing is most of these boats will need a good deal of work. Many people bought these boats and they have been sitting around for 5 or 10 years. I think you need to up your price range if you are going to get a quality boat. Also, to sleep 4 people comfortably you will need at least a 30 footer. PLan on spending more than 20k for a boat that will give you some good use out of it. Happy Hunting
T
Tom S/V GAIA
Keep looking!!!!!!
Todd; Keep looking, you can find some great deals if you are willing to work on your boat. We found a Lancer 28 last fall, it needed a LOT of work below deck but the asking price was $2,500. That included a outboard (35 horse) and trailer. Sure, we had to work our butts off all winter and spring and there are a bunch of boats with nicer below deck spaces, but we can sleep 5/6 adults (5 is better) and the boat sails just fine thanks!!!!! so keep looking and have fun! good luck-----------tom
Todd; Keep looking, you can find some great deals if you are willing to work on your boat. We found a Lancer 28 last fall, it needed a LOT of work below deck but the asking price was $2,500. That included a outboard (35 horse) and trailer. Sure, we had to work our butts off all winter and spring and there are a bunch of boats with nicer below deck spaces, but we can sleep 5/6 adults (5 is better) and the boat sails just fine thanks!!!!! so keep looking and have fun! good luck-----------tom
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David
Sail Clubs?
Here in Jacksonville there is a club you can join for around $125 per month that gives you access to something like 8 boats in the 25 ft. range. I'm not sure if there is something in your neck of the woods like that, but I think it may be an option. This club has 4 differnt models to choose from and it's a good way to figure out what you want. On the other hand, I bought an '82 Hunter 22 last fall that is in amazingly good shape and sails like a charm for $2,500 and added about $500 worth of stuff to it to make it "mine". Good luck in the hunt, it's worth the effort. David (Sea Monkey's) (now I'm off to west marine to spend more money)
Here in Jacksonville there is a club you can join for around $125 per month that gives you access to something like 8 boats in the 25 ft. range. I'm not sure if there is something in your neck of the woods like that, but I think it may be an option. This club has 4 differnt models to choose from and it's a good way to figure out what you want. On the other hand, I bought an '82 Hunter 22 last fall that is in amazingly good shape and sails like a charm for $2,500 and added about $500 worth of stuff to it to make it "mine". Good luck in the hunt, it's worth the effort. David (Sea Monkey's) (now I'm off to west marine to spend more money)
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Bill
ASA Lessons
Todd, My wife and I took two ASA courses this spring, basic keelboat and costal cruising. They were one weekend each and gave us a free days rental on our own for each course. This gave us the basic skills and we both liked sailing. When we went to purchase we weree looking in the same price range as you but a couple of surveys showed us these boats had problems that were pretty serious. We doubled the number and ccame up with a nice Pearson 30, well equiped and mintained. I had minor electrical and usuall maint. to do but nothing serious and she sails and runs great. Don't let the brokers prices scare you, they all move. Bill
Todd, My wife and I took two ASA courses this spring, basic keelboat and costal cruising. They were one weekend each and gave us a free days rental on our own for each course. This gave us the basic skills and we both liked sailing. When we went to purchase we weree looking in the same price range as you but a couple of surveys showed us these boats had problems that were pretty serious. We doubled the number and ccame up with a nice Pearson 30, well equiped and mintained. I had minor electrical and usuall maint. to do but nothing serious and she sails and runs great. Don't let the brokers prices scare you, they all move. Bill
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roger marshutz
club
Here in Marina Del Rey there is a club you can join. They have you start on maybe a Lido 14 and you work your way up to their 30 foot boat. Might check and see if there is a like club in the marina. If you are young as I was once a Cal 20 was fine. I even sailed to Catalina many times. I would not do that now. My next boat was an Erickson 26, the first version. A great boat to learn on if you can find one. But as you've read boats need love and $$$$. And as been said a boat is big hole that you throw money into for a few moments of joy. But I still do it. My fifth and last boat is a new Catalina 310. Great. You might also consider a boating partner. I always had partners. They cut the work and expense in half. Roger
Here in Marina Del Rey there is a club you can join. They have you start on maybe a Lido 14 and you work your way up to their 30 foot boat. Might check and see if there is a like club in the marina. If you are young as I was once a Cal 20 was fine. I even sailed to Catalina many times. I would not do that now. My next boat was an Erickson 26, the first version. A great boat to learn on if you can find one. But as you've read boats need love and $$$$. And as been said a boat is big hole that you throw money into for a few moments of joy. But I still do it. My fifth and last boat is a new Catalina 310. Great. You might also consider a boating partner. I always had partners. They cut the work and expense in half. Roger
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David Guthridge
My 2 cents!
My advice is to spend a year looking at no less than 30 boats in the 24-30 range. Read the classified adds and go look!! I found some trash out there and some very nice boats. But the most importent thing was that I learned so much about many different makes and models. I learned that the 24s & 25s were to small for my wife and I to enjoy ourselves and occasionally have our grown children out with their friends too. The 30s were more than I felt comefortable with single handing. I wound up with a Pearson 26. For now it is almost perfect. I have learned so much in two years and have made many improvements to her. She was part of a divorce case so the price was very good, $4000.00. After looking at all those boats I found out what a fully equiped boat really is. Sails, engine, spinaker poles, compas, speedo, depth ind, life vests, extra lines, condition of rigging, hull, cabin, keel, rudder, and a list a mile long. I found the best boat for me. It may not be the best for you but only you can decide that. But, most importent, spend a lot of time educating yourself and looking!!!! and at everything!!! Then, by all means, have it surveyed before you buy!!! If it's not right, be able to walk away from it.
My advice is to spend a year looking at no less than 30 boats in the 24-30 range. Read the classified adds and go look!! I found some trash out there and some very nice boats. But the most importent thing was that I learned so much about many different makes and models. I learned that the 24s & 25s were to small for my wife and I to enjoy ourselves and occasionally have our grown children out with their friends too. The 30s were more than I felt comefortable with single handing. I wound up with a Pearson 26. For now it is almost perfect. I have learned so much in two years and have made many improvements to her. She was part of a divorce case so the price was very good, $4000.00. After looking at all those boats I found out what a fully equiped boat really is. Sails, engine, spinaker poles, compas, speedo, depth ind, life vests, extra lines, condition of rigging, hull, cabin, keel, rudder, and a list a mile long. I found the best boat for me. It may not be the best for you but only you can decide that. But, most importent, spend a lot of time educating yourself and looking!!!! and at everything!!! Then, by all means, have it surveyed before you buy!!! If it's not right, be able to walk away from it.
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Hans
Catalina 27
Last year I was in pretty much the same situation you were in, and in shopping around I found an '85 Catalina 27 in reasonably good shape for $9K. I didn’t have much sailing experience, although I have sailed some 15 years ago, but I felt I needed my own boat to run it on MY schedule, and joining a club seemed appealing but unlikely to work out well enough given my timing constraints. So far, this has been a good experience, and after the first two day sails by myself I could reasonably master her, and have been sailing since in light winds and – for the challenge and the learning experience – in winds up to 25 knots. The Cat27 answers your specs nicely and will sleep up to 4 adults (plus one child, in a pinch). Boats of this size and with the accommodations you seem to expect already have a lot of systems: electronics, inboard engine, fresh water / shower, head (toilet), holding tank, stove etc. and all this stuff can and will break, or at the very least, need maintenance. If you buy a cheap, run-down project boat, you will have to spend A LOT of time (and expensive materials) to get her up again; I therefore think it is better to pay more and be able to enjoy the boat right away. Don't forget that even if you get a reasonably well maintained boat, you still will need to spend significantly on new rigging (I re-did the standing rigging: 17 years is a long time). Good luck, Hans
Last year I was in pretty much the same situation you were in, and in shopping around I found an '85 Catalina 27 in reasonably good shape for $9K. I didn’t have much sailing experience, although I have sailed some 15 years ago, but I felt I needed my own boat to run it on MY schedule, and joining a club seemed appealing but unlikely to work out well enough given my timing constraints. So far, this has been a good experience, and after the first two day sails by myself I could reasonably master her, and have been sailing since in light winds and – for the challenge and the learning experience – in winds up to 25 knots. The Cat27 answers your specs nicely and will sleep up to 4 adults (plus one child, in a pinch). Boats of this size and with the accommodations you seem to expect already have a lot of systems: electronics, inboard engine, fresh water / shower, head (toilet), holding tank, stove etc. and all this stuff can and will break, or at the very least, need maintenance. If you buy a cheap, run-down project boat, you will have to spend A LOT of time (and expensive materials) to get her up again; I therefore think it is better to pay more and be able to enjoy the boat right away. Don't forget that even if you get a reasonably well maintained boat, you still will need to spend significantly on new rigging (I re-did the standing rigging: 17 years is a long time). Good luck, Hans
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Mandy
We're in the same boat!?
HI! It sounds like we are in the same boat as you! At the moment my partner and I are looking to buy a boat to live aboard and sail deep water with. Although it is a little different to your idea, we also know nothing about boats, cannot sail and are finding it very tricky!! We think we've got as far as decideing on a long keel and well, that's about as far as we've got. We hope to buy over this winter and learn to sail over the spring. I keep posting stuff on this site and people seem to reply ( many thanks) so hopefully you will get some luck with your help needed. I have asked a few questions about which boats and keels, rigs,etc so you might like to take a peek at them. It may be nothing to do with what you want but I just wanted you to know thta perhaps you are not the only mad person about!! We are too! Good luck and i'll keep reading your postings cause i think it might help me too! Have fun S and M
HI! It sounds like we are in the same boat as you! At the moment my partner and I are looking to buy a boat to live aboard and sail deep water with. Although it is a little different to your idea, we also know nothing about boats, cannot sail and are finding it very tricky!! We think we've got as far as decideing on a long keel and well, that's about as far as we've got. We hope to buy over this winter and learn to sail over the spring. I keep posting stuff on this site and people seem to reply ( many thanks) so hopefully you will get some luck with your help needed. I have asked a few questions about which boats and keels, rigs,etc so you might like to take a peek at them. It may be nothing to do with what you want but I just wanted you to know thta perhaps you are not the only mad person about!! We are too! Good luck and i'll keep reading your postings cause i think it might help me too! Have fun S and M
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Todd Coy
Thanks All
Thank you all for the excellent advice. I am already changing from my initial spending limit, especially when you look at interest rates. I went out looking at boats this last weekend, and I met a guy who runs a volunteer boat for troubled kids. He invited me to donate my time and help him with the kids, and in exchange I could learn to sail. What a deal! I get to help people, and learn. He was a super nice guy, he invited my wife and I on board his boat (34' Erickson - I think) and showed us around. from the posting I have received, and Jim's (the guy) response, it appears that sailors are a pretty friendly group. In addition, by him showing my wife his boat, she dug it, and it made getting a boat an easier sell. Thanks all of you and I will keep you all posted.
Thank you all for the excellent advice. I am already changing from my initial spending limit, especially when you look at interest rates. I went out looking at boats this last weekend, and I met a guy who runs a volunteer boat for troubled kids. He invited me to donate my time and help him with the kids, and in exchange I could learn to sail. What a deal! I get to help people, and learn. He was a super nice guy, he invited my wife and I on board his boat (34' Erickson - I think) and showed us around. from the posting I have received, and Jim's (the guy) response, it appears that sailors are a pretty friendly group. In addition, by him showing my wife his boat, she dug it, and it made getting a boat an easier sell. Thanks all of you and I will keep you all posted.
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