Buying a 1989 Catalina 36 engine woes or not

[mogade]

I hope I can get some input on the dilemma I have. I'm looking to buy this 1989 vessel with a universal M25XP engine. I had the Universal dealer do a "engine survey" and they recommended I replace the heat exchanger, sea water pump and circulation pump. He claimed these are wear parts that should be replaced every 10 years! I've never heard that before. The cost estimate to do those things as well as replace all 4 motor mounts, hoses and electrical connection came to $4500. Ooooch!!!

Am I being told reliable information? Are those really items that need to be replaced every 10 years or do they just need servicing? The engine has 1100 hours and runs great!! One motor mount needs tom be replaced.

I just joined the group so that I can hopefully get some good feedback. Thank you!!

Boatless in Seattle

 

[Stu Jackson]

Hi, and welcome.

You wrote about: the heat exchanger, sea water pump and circulation pump.

I just replaced our third heat exchanger on our boat. I first replaced the old two inch heat exchanger in 1999 (ours is an M25, essentially the same engine as yours but 21 hp instead of 23 hp), and the second one failed due to a broken HX bracket (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6920.0.html). Very simple DIY work.

Sea Water Pump: you can rebuild it by replacing the seals. This is normal maintenance. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6766.0.html

Circulating pump: these last almost forever. Some of our skippers have rep;laced theirs, also DIY, no links available, sorry.

Redoing engine mounts is also a DIY: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Changing_Engine_Mounts There are other ways to do it, like Dremeling off the old ones.

Hoses: DIY a lot less expensive.

Yes, if you have someone else do the work, it'll cost twice what it'd cost doing it yourself over a period of time.

If the HX is working, it's not a high priority. The sea water pump IS a high priority. The hoses should be, too. You can spend time finding the right circulating pump if it's working now.

Since we have no idea what you mechanical capabilities are, it would help if you told us how handy you are. I knew absolutely NOTHING about diesel engines unil we bought our boat, and did a steep learning curve, since the engine overheated most of time hen we bought the boat. I took out the HX and found one of the inlet ports blocked about 50% by salt water deposits. I cleaned that out and the engine ran fine until I upgraded to the larger HX.

My take is that you can buy the boat and fix all this stuff as you get to learn how to do it yourself.

You should also join the FORUM on the C36 website www.c36ia.org

Good luck, sounds like you found a nice boat.

 

[Stu Jackson]

To add, we have 2600 hours on our engine and the circulating pump is doing just fine.

 

[mogade]

Thank you for the info and links!

 

[shipwreck66]

I did find it interesting that the Universal dealer specifically pointed out parts for which only they provide parts. Virtually all Universal engines, as Stu frequently points out, have Kubota equivalents, for a lot less money, and only a few of the parts such as the heat exchanger and raw water pumps are unique to marine applications. Once you get into working on these little diesels you will find they are really easy. The previous owner of my boat was a doctor, who to my surprise, really enjoyed doing his own engine servicing and didn't trust the local boatyard people to touch his baby's heart. I will also add that my '84 model is running with a lot of the original parts, of which I do keep a close eye, but being in fresh water I don't get as much corrosion as you salty's.

 

[Stu Jackson]

..., who to my surprise, really enjoyed doing his own engine servicing and didn't trust the local boatyard people to touch his baby's heart.

What a nice way to present that thought.

The two times I've had "mechanics" work on my boat I had to fix their goofs.

I believe the phrase "diesel mechanic" is an oxymoron.

Except for the great guys any of you may know and trust and those that Roger found on his way north.

Really...

 

[jrowan]

Magode, That price sounds VERY high. If they are reputable, then ask them it itemize what their labor rate is per hour, & how many hours they require for each repair. Check around & do a price comparison with other yards.
Also have them list the parts price. I guarantee that U will save money by hunting down the parts yourself online. Raw water circulation pumps go through routine maintenance as stated. If it is pumping good water through the transom mounted exhaust fitting & not overheating under load then the cooling system is working fine. U only need to replace a motor mount if it is broken, not all four. If the exhaust riser is not clogged from corrosion or rusted through, then leave it be. The Universal is a tough engine, & most problems I have had are from "preventative maintenance." That is, trusting "mechanics" to change fuel filters which caused air lock in the fuel injecion system, & changing a worn belt which subsequently broke & bent the pulley, after it was supposed to be fixed. You will generally take a lot more care to do repairs yourself properly (since its your boat & life on the line) & U will learn how to do the maintenance via experience. Both pluses in my book.

 

[Faris]

You've received good advice on this, so I'll just ditto what's been said. There is nothing in that list that you couldn't do yourself. But, I'll take it one step further and suggest that, if you buy the boat, you should do this work yourself. You'll learn so much about your boat that the experience will be invaluable.

 

[Faris]

By the way, who gave you that price? You got the dealer to survey the engine? I would say that much of that work is not necessary simply due to the age of the engine. Rules about replacing parts on a set schedule are usually made by the people who profit from the sale of those parts. (There are some obvious exceptions to this.)

Inspect, repair, replace ... in that order. That's my motto.

In any case, if you want a second opinion, give the folks at Seattle Marine Technicians a call. They'll treat you right and give you straight answers. (Also, CSR Marine for everything but the engine. Can't say enough good things about these two companies, especially CSR.)

 

[FastOlson]

I certainly Don't want to get into a pi__ing match with those who honestly believe that rubber motor mounts last so many decades that if you have a "bad" one you just replace that one.....

but by the time you get to 20 or 25 years, you can assume that the original ones are functionally worn out, even if most of them pass a perfunctory visual inspection.
They are a "consumable", albeit a long-term consumable.

Even with low engine operation hours, the synthetic rubber material hardens over time. Certainly hours are important to increased wear, but do not rule out the effect of time.

OTOH, that closed-cooling system iron vane pump might last 4000 hrs, according to a rep I talked @ Universal Westerbeke a number of years ago.

Speaking of pumps, do get used to replacing the impeller on the raw water pump on a yearly (or not longer than every other year) basis.

And of course, follow up on the excellent links and advice from Stu.

( I have the same engine in our boat.)

 

[mogade]

Thanks for all the great advice. I'm closing on the boat tomorrow!! I plan on replacing some "soft" seawater cooling hoses before my 35 mile sail to bring the boat "home" to Tacoma. Turns out the last owner changed the heat exchanger in 2008! I'm not sure I believe anything the Universal mechanic told me. I do have some other project on my "HOT" list. One is a previous owner took the manual bilge pump switch out when he put in refrigeration. Also need some insulation on the Arctic heater exhaust.