Buy boat with our without electronics?

Prime Time · Feb 13, 2009

Not just electronics

The boats also differ in age of engine and sails. Probably worth the difference ignoring the electronics.

Stu Jackson · Feb 13, 2009

Hard choice there

You didn't mention if there are self tailing winches on the 79. You'll find they're necessary, but you could add "Winchers" which we found worked well for 12 years on our C25 (let's not get into that argument, fellas).

It's your choice, since the engines are essentially equal, but newer sails and rigging would be another cost soon down the line to consider.

The BIG question is: what do YOU consider to be "all the electronics?" "Auto pilot, knotmeter, depth sounder, vhf, etc." The "etc." leaves a big hole for us to understand. A boat without those basics sure is lacking.

With those instruments, all you need is a good handheld GPS (like our Garmin GPSMap 76 Cx - $350) and an inexpensive hand held VHF ($100) for the cockpit, and you've got everything.

If, however, you're like a recent respondent who likes to tinker with electronics and is good at it (we don't know your qualifications on DIY either) and is looking for a system that has more bells & whistles than an aircraft carrier, then you have a completely different situation.

$4,000 for all the electronics for a C30 sounds like overkill to me. The newer boat sounds better, especially with the new transmission. Why take an older boat and add the same amount of $$?

Bad Obsession · Feb 13, 2009

My Raymarine S1 autohelm cost me around $1200 when I bought it. I got ripped off by a marina and they charged me $1700 to install it (A long story). Some of the older members around here may have heard the story on this.

Catalina 30 is an excellent boat. Make sure you get onto the Catalina 30 group on this forum. I just posted some information about doing a battery upgrade on the Catalina 30. It is definitely a nice boat and it sails descently. The interior volume is excellent!

A main sail in my area for my tall rig is about $1800 and a 150% jib is slightly more. I have a full battened main sail and I love the shape that it gets. I would definitely want more than one reef point though.

One thing that you didn't mention about the boats is their rigging. Are both of the boats Tall Rig? Are they wing or fin keel?

For my area (The Chesapeake Bay) the Tall rig wing keel bowsprit is perfect. The bowsprit gives you an excellent anchoring arrangement.

Feel free to get in touch with me if you have any further questions.

Oh, are both diesels the same size (Universal M-26 23hp diesel is what is in mine). My Catalina 30 is a 1990 MK II Tall Rig, Bow Sprit, Wing Keel. I love my boat.

Steve Dion · Feb 13, 2009

New motor and electronics for $3k, is a better deal and a new boat. New rigging $1,000 plus labor.

The asking price is not your purchase price either.

higgs · Feb 13, 2009

Maybe i am missing something - it wouldnot be the first time - but it seems to me the more expensive boat offers a lot more than 3k in advantages. A brand new engine is great. A new suit of sails is going to cost you $1500 anyways - probably more. with the extra electronics you are, in my opinion(unless I am missing something) way better off with that boat. Self tailers are very nice - I have had both types - but not worth all the extras you get with the more expensive boat. That new engine is a big plus. There is not a lot a PO could do in 14 hrs to mess up that Yanmar.

RECESS · Feb 13, 2009

If you are going to spend the difference anyway to bring the 77 up to the 79 specs, I would go with the 79 if both boats have aged about the same. I do not think you could bring the 77 up to that level within the price difference.

It may be different if you are planning to make the upgrades one at a time to spread the budget. If you are looking to do it all at once, without knowing anymore information, the 79 sounds like the better deal.

higgs · Feb 13, 2009

I overlooked the fact that the good boat is 2 years newer. I am even more convinced that I would go with the '79. Is there something about the 77 that you really like? If the money is not an issue this seems to be a no brainer to me.

Bad Obsession · Feb 13, 2009

Dude...go with the 79. The boat has newer sails, newer engine, and the electronics are already there.

Btw...what type of canvass do the boats have. If you are going to sail the Chesapeake Bay region I would suggest having a bimini and Dodger on the boat. At least the Bimini. Then again, I would never have another boat without a Bimini, Dodger, and connector. In hot weather the shade is a blessing and in foul weather it keeps some of the rain off of you.

For the Bimini, Dodger, and Connector I have heard that the price would run about 5K. 5K is nothing compared to what skin cancer will cost you!

frank balcer · Feb 13, 2009

Standing rigging

replacing standing rigging can be a PITA. I would go with newer boat and newer standing rigging. Just my two cwnts worth............

Harold9248 · Feb 14, 2009

Fred, did I miss it? Where did you say anything about the surveyor's report? Unless you have skills you haven't mentioned, you should never make this type long term investment without getting a pro's evaluation of the structural and mechanical condition of a boat that has had previous owners. The haul-out and surveyor's report is the cheapest money you will ever spend on a boat.
I support the choice of the 79. I spent 15 years replacing & repairing essentials on an older 28'. Looking back, it would have been far cheaper to buy a newer one and skip a lot of that, to say nothing of the waisted weekends at the dock working on it instead of enjoying the fun of sailing. I never realized that I was suppose to get my weekend's entertainment working in the bilge.
I developed a much more critical eye when it came to choosing our current boat. The surveyor pointed out some things to check out quickly if I purchased it. Every item he spotted was critical to safety. I have enjoyed fixing them, even more so while I was at the dock and on my own terms. This is way better than attacking such things when water is discovered over the cabin sole while out for a daysail on the bay. If you want our opinion, tell us what the surveyor says. Sailing is too much fun to spend your free time at the dock in the bilge. Harold

sailndive345 · Feb 14, 2009

"Electronics" is a little too vague...

Fred Lee said:
We will be purchasing a Catalina 30 and have narrowed our search down to 2 boats. Both have solid hulls, updated sails and updated motors. One doesnt have any electronics except a VHF however, its $3,000 less. We would greatly appreciate your expert opinion!

1977 Cat 30. 5 yr old Yanmar. 5 year old sails. Self tailing winches. No electronics. $13,000

1979 Cat 30. New Yanmar (14 hrs) and trany. Updated sails. Standing & running rigging within 5 years. Auto pilot, knotmeter, depth sounder, vhf, etc... $17,000.

So, would it be feasible to think I could rig the 77 with all the electronics for $4,000? Any other thoughts.

Thanks!

For all the reasons already stated, I agree that the 1979 appears to be the better choice.

As far as "electronics" go, you may benefit from doing some research. I bought my boat with all seemingly impressive electronics and they turned out to be mostly worthless. In fact, the manufacturer had discontinued the particular line, support and all.... Thankfully, the depthsounder works fairly well and I can do w/o all the other components. If I had done a little more research

, it would have been an effective negotiation factor.

Just my 2 cents - you may want to check into the other key components as well; just because they are new/recently upgraded, etc., doesn't necessarily mean that it is what you may want.

Good luck!

Sailndive345

PS: I have not mentioned the brand of my electronics for obvious reasons - too many lawyers around and I don't like long-winded arguments

if you are interested to find out more about them, shoot me an email.

pvanv · Feb 14, 2009

I'm with higgs. In salt, the standing rig needs pretty frequent updates, and the 79 already has it. Autohelm is a pricey buy as well. That, and decently-recent sails adds value. The run-of-the-mill sounder and stuff is no big deal either way. Assuming that the surveys on both boats come out clean, the newer boat sounds like a lot better bang for the buck. In any case, make sure you review the 12v wiring. I have seen some older C30's that had some marginal panels and stuff.

Stu Jackson · Feb 14, 2009

Electrical panels can always be rebuilt: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-building-electrical-panel.htm

newly anonymous · Feb 14, 2009

go with the '79...

...because we love spending your money.

(seriously, it seems a better deal to me. not that a sailboat is ever a great deal.)