Butyl Tape Yet Again

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Oct 24, 2011
258
Lancer 28 Grand Lake
Two questions to aks about butyl tape, I cant find the answers anywhere on the forums. What width of butyl do you need to bed down toe rails, that are about an inch and a quarter wide, as i see butyl tape that is recomended for marine use, but its only quarter inch wide, can i use that do i have to use more than one run, or would one run flatten and expand to take up the whole width of the toe rail. Also, can you use butyl to bed a mast step, as, i was thinking, if it didnt compress properly when it was bolted down, the mast would compress it further, and the bolts would work loose.

I have taken fittings off and put them back on boats before, but i have never used butyl tape, and i have never had the toe rails off, this is the first time. I took them off and glassed the deck to the hull.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Two questions to aks about butyl tape, I cant find the answers anywhere on the forums. What width of butyl do you need to bed down toe rails, that are about an inch and a quarter wide, as i see butyl tape that is recomended for marine use, but its only quarter inch wide, can i use that do i have to use more than one run, or would one run flatten and expand to take up the whole width of the toe rail. Also, can you use butyl to bed a mast step, as, i was thinking, if it didnt compress properly when it was bolted down, the mast would compress it further, and the bolts would work loose.

I have taken fittings off and put them back on boats before, but i have never used butyl tape, and i have never had the toe rails off, this is the first time. I took them off and glassed the deck to the hull.
Al,

The stuff I offer for this is 1/16" thick and 1/2" wide. For wide surfaces just lay strips next to one another. Once compressed it will become one piece. This is the only size I have used since 1998 and I find it to be the most versatile size.

As with anything butyl you need to tighten it SLOWLY and over multiple small tightening events so it can "displace" out enough to stop oozing. Installed properly and patiently you should not have any issues with the mast step.

Here's a link that will go over many of your questions.

Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Tape (LINK)

In this photo I used butyl tape as the bedding compound. I loosened the nut and pushed the bolt up to show how much allowable movement can be had with a countersunk hole. Proper procedure & installation is as critical as anything!

If you look close you'll see that the outer edges, where the bolt head meets
flat deck, the sealant has begun to fail or failed entirely yet the butyl in the countersunk recess is still stretching and still there.

If your deck hardware is moving this much you have MUCH bigger problems and this is why this is for illustrative purposes only..


 
Oct 24, 2011
258
Lancer 28 Grand Lake
Al,

The stuff I offer for this is 1/16" thick and 1/2" wide. For wide surfaces just lay strips next to one another. Once compressed it will become one piece. This is the only size I have used since 1998 and I find it to be the most versatile size.

As with anything butyl you need to tighten it SLOWLY and over multiple small tightening events so it can "displace" out enough to stop oozing. Installed properly and patiently you should not have any issues with the mast step.

Here's a link that will go over many of your questions.

Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Tape
Hi yes, thanks, i had been on that link that you sent, i ran through it quite quickly, but i couldnt find the answer to the toe rail thing. I just couldnt figure out if you had to get a specific size of tape. I will probably order a few rolls of the quarter inch tape. Is paypal all you take. I do have a paypal account, i just never use it.
 

Vic H.

.
Jan 15, 2012
87
Hinterholler Shark 24 Greenhaven, CT
I get mine at the local Camper/RV shop. The roll is about an inch wide. I stretch as needed for narrower width.

Vic H.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
My experience with RV & Automotive butyl is that is keeps oozing.

This is NOT an issue with the product that you get from MaineSail.

I have used it to rebed a Lewmar aluminum port and a couple of stanchions. After I tightened the bolts I let it sit for a couple of weeks and just trimmed it with a knife. That was last year and it is still working well (no oozing).

We have probably purchased over 10 rolls at our marina, everyone loves the stuff.

One of our harbor mates that had a boat changed out his ports and used some "other" sealant to rebed the new ports. The instructions told him to use butyl, but he could not find any. Everyone of the ports leaked. He r/r the ports and used MaineSails butyl. He is somewhere in the south pacific with a dry boat.
 

Vic H.

.
Jan 15, 2012
87
Hinterholler Shark 24 Greenhaven, CT
What ever works for you is the best solution.

Vic H.
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
Butyl Sealants

What ever works for you is the best solution.

Vic H.
- - - - // - - - -

As with all products there are good products and cheap immations.

I would look to manufacturer and country of origin.

I get locally a butyl tape at a RV supply place. They are a regional RV and camper repair place and like their good reputation. They have parts department which operates a small store to sell what they use. They carry both black and white and usually in two widths. What they sell has worked well for me to recommend Bytyl tape for above water line sealing, like ports and hatches.

One reason for lack of availability of butyl sealants is that it is solvent based. And our enlightened EPA wants to do away with solvent products or put excessive restrictions on their use.

This is why the former major suppliers have gotten out of butyl sealants. Those guys such as 3M and Dupont have formulated water based sealant products. How do they work? I have not tried them.

It used to be that butal sealants were also available in brush on products. I believe that there is still one company making such a product, but for various reasons it is special order.

I think the EPA issues and shelf life are the two big issues for that product.

Another good product for sealing above the water line is a product not made for marine use [at least under the title] is a roofing sealant called NP 1. There are again many immitators, however, I know several boat rebuilders and local yards that stick to NP 1. It is a good caulking gun product versus the current bytul products which are tapes. And since it does not say boats, it is relatively cheap.

Ed K
South Carolina








 

Attachments

Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
My experience with RV & Automotive butyl is that is keeps oozing.

This is NOT an issue with the product that you get from MaineSail.
There are vast differences in butyl tape. Some you buy on the net is not even butyl at all but rather a water soluble putty tape. I have had three or four customer send me a rolls they bought advertised as "butyl" that melted in water. I have no idea what it is but it is not butyl. It rips instead of stretches and melts in water..not good.

One guy even emailed me a video which I will try and find.

If you buy a roll that is not from me at least buy a genuine glazing butyl. It has to meet some minimum glazing industry standards and the RV or roofing stuff does not. While not the same as the stuff the boat builders used to use it will be far better than many of the cheap RV tapes or roofing tapes of unknown origin or make up. RV advertised butyl it is often of poor quality and can continue to "bleed" and is also often, not even butyl. These are usually high solvent tapes made to be messy gummy stuff for jamming in roof cracks on RV's. You really can't buy this stuff based on price alone, as I found out.

I buy direct from the manufacturer in multi-pallet skids and pay more for the good stuff than re-sellers four times removed from the manufacturer are selling the cheap stuff for.

I spent six months evaluating butyl tape before I found one that met standards I felt were suitable and comparable to the older stuff the builders used to use. With EPA regs changing all the time this was difficult. Not too wet or solventy, enough durometer/harness, but not too much, and very, very stretchy & flexible and a wide working temp range. When I found it the only problem was that it was not made in gray, only black. Black can be very, messy, trust me my port lights were bedded with New Found Metals black stuff and it is horrible....

The big problem with RV tapes is that the quality is all over the map and I found after putting them side by side it is kind of like going to Vegas. This is what forced me into sourcing some known quality stuff for the boating community. You may get lucky with it but you may not too..

Much of the RV stuff I found is now produced offshore and the quality and consistency was all over the place, a real crap shoot. Tracking back the manufacturers led me to some interesting finds. Some of the stuff you are buying the manufacturer is selling for $0.45 - $0.65 roll and uses "fillers" to get the price down as purer butyl rubber is absolutely not cheap.. Some is really wet/solventy, some is really soft with little density, some lacks the elasticity and some failed my cold weather & heat testing. I ordered about 16-20 different rolls / brands of RV tape and about half was absolutely unacceptable and the other half could possibly work ok for a while but was still not as good as a quality glazing tape.

Some of it stretched less than an inch in sub 20 degree weather and some went 6 inches but none stretched as long or as far as the best performing stuff or stuck to parts as well before bond failure. One roll I had sent to me, of "unknown" quality, got hard and brittle just sitting in my barn? I have a roll of quality tape I bought in 1998 that I show customers who pick up at my house.. Still not much different than it was in 1998 other than sticking to the backing paper a little more. One roll I ordered of eBay, from an RV supplier, was foam rubber not butyl. This despite the picture and description on ebay describing it as butyl tape.

While you can certainly get lucky I found that after buying over 40 different rolls/brands only about four or five were products I would be willing to use on a regular basis. That is a pretty dismal ratio and less good than simply going to Vegas..

Just like Polyurethane sealants such as 4200, 5200, Sikaflex etc., of which there are hundreds of "brands", people use the good ones in the marine environment because they work well and are time tested and proven.

Also butyl is only another tool in the shed for bedding and most all the other products still have a place and, I still use them depending upon the situation. Butyl is NOT a magic elixir just another tool for the job, other than a hammer...;)

All that said, I have a friend who bought some pretty poor quality butyl and its been three years and it is still not leaking, so the prep counts for a lot. I honestly would not have given this stuff three weeks. He's going to rebed it once it leaks so now we are curious to see how long it lasts..

Bottom line is if I have to put my name on it it's going to be good stuff.... I refuse to sell a cheap product based on price alone.

These are a few pics of from guys who bought RV stuff on-line and later bought the stuff I now sell.

On-Line RV tape sold as "butyl rubber tape":



Bed-It Tape:



I know the tape on our 33 year old CS is still preventing leaks, over 80% of the boat is un-rebedded, and this is the closest product I could find that that. I acutally feel it is a better product than what CS used..

If you're happy with what you have and it works then stick with it. I just can't really say how long it may last as the qualities of "butyl tape" are all over the map.....
 

Squidd

.
Sep 26, 2011
890
AMF Alcort Paceship PY26 Washburn Wi. Apostle Islands
Do you need to cover the whole base of the rail...?? Or just spot bed where the screw/bolt goes...?
 
Nov 9, 2008
1,338
Pearson-O'Day 290 Portland Maine
I am a designer for a nationally known skylight company. (I don't do rectangles.) Our company supplies a number of different products, some of which are supplied with plastic glazing (acrylic, polycarbonate, copolyester). The gasket of choices is butyl, hands down. Real butyl has lasted 20 years in the field. When a dome has to be replaced, the butyl is usually still soft, sticky and pliable. AS MS says, this is REAL butyl, not plumbers putty of some nonsense like that. Buy it for MS or go to a glazing supplier.

Don
 

Attachments

Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
Maine Sail - it is great

There are vast differences in butyl tape. Some you buy on the net is not even butyl at all but rather a water soluble putty tape. I have had three or four customer send me a rolls they bought advertised as "butyl" that melted in water. I have no idea what it is but it is not butyl. It rips instead of stretches and melts in water..not good.

One guy even emailed me a video which I will try and find.

If you buy a roll that is not from me at least buy a genuine glazing butyl. It has to meet some minimum glazing industry standards and the RV or roofing stuff does not. While not the same as the stuff the boat builders used to use it will be far better than many of the cheap RV tapes or roofing tapes of unknown origin or make up. RV advertised butyl it is often of poor quality and can continue to "bleed" and is also often, not even butyl. These are usually high solvent tapes made to be messy gummy stuff for jamming in roof cracks on RV's. You really can't buy this stuff based on price alone, as I found out.

I buy direct from the manufacturer in multi-pallet skids and pay more for the good stuff than re-sellers four times removed from the manufacturer are selling the cheap stuff for.

I spent six months evaluating butyl tape before I found one that met standards I felt were suitable and comparable to the older stuff the builders used to use. With EPA regs changing all the time this was difficult. Not too wet or solventy, enough durometer/harness, but not too much, and very, very stretchy & flexible and a wide working temp range. When I found it the only problem was that it was not made in gray, only black. Black can be very, messy, trust me my port lights were bedded with New Found Metals black stuff and it is horrible....

The big problem with RV tapes is that the quality is all over the map and I found after putting them side by side it is kind of like going to Vegas. This is what forced me into sourcing some known quality stuff for the boating community. You may get lucky with it but you may not too..

Much of the RV stuff I found is now produced offshore and the quality and consistency was all over the place, a real crap shoot. Tracking back the manufacturers led me to some interesting finds. Some of the stuff you are buying the manufacturer is selling for $0.45 - $0.65 roll and uses "fillers" to get the price down as purer butyl rubber is absolutely not cheap.. Some is really wet/solventy, some is really soft with little density, some lacks the elasticity and some failed my cold weather & heat testing. I ordered about 16-20 different rolls / brands of RV tape and about half was absolutely unacceptable and the other half could possibly work ok for a while but was still not as good as a quality glazing tape.

Some of it stretched less than an inch in sub 20 degree weather and some went 6 inches but none stretched as long or as far as the best performing stuff or stuck to parts as well before bond failure. One roll I had sent to me, of "unknown" quality, got hard and brittle just sitting in my barn? I have a roll of quality tape I bought in 1998 that I show customers who pick up at my house.. Still not much different than it was in 1998 other than sticking to the backing paper a little more. One roll I ordered of eBay, from an RV supplier, was foam rubber not butyl. This despite the picture and description on ebay describing it as butyl tape.

While you can certainly get lucky I found that after buying over 40 different rolls/brands only about four or five were products I would be willing to use on a regular basis. That is a pretty dismal ratio and less good than simply going to Vegas..

Just like Polyurethane sealants such as 4200, 5200, Sikaflex etc., of which there are hundreds of "brands", people use the good ones in the marine environment because they work well and are time tested and proven.

Also butyl is only another tool in the shed for bedding and most all the other products still have a place and, I still use them depending upon the situation. Butyl is NOT a magic elixir just another tool for the job, other than a hammer...;)

All that said, I have a friend who bought some pretty poor quality butyl and its been three years and it is still not leaking, so the prep counts for a lot. I honestly would not have given this stuff three weeks. He's going to rebed it once it leaks so now we are curious to see how long it lasts..

Bottom line is if I have to put my name on it it's going to be good stuff.... I refuse to sell a cheap product based on price alone.

These are a few pics of from guys who bought RV stuff on-line and later bought the stuff I now sell.

On-Line RV tape sold as "butyl rubber tape":



Bed-It Tape:



I know the tape on our 33 year old CS is still preventing leaks, over 80% of the boat is un-rebedded, and this is the closest product I could find that that. I acutally feel it is a better product than what CS used..

If you're happy with what you have and it works then stick with it. I just can't really say how long it may last as the qualities of "butyl tape" are all over the map.....
- - - - // - - - -

Maine Sail,

It is great to see you up on Sunday morning.

You said you use 5200. I have never ending problems where either originally or later 5200 was used and now I have to deal with it.

Whereas everything else is more reasonable to clean and fix.

As I pointed out the problem with getting butyl products is both the manufacturer and EPA. Cheap imitations and the fact that current butyl products use solvents the EPA does not like.

And getting stuff from the far east is like Chinese tools, very unreliable metallurgy.

They are probably making butyl rubber by melting used condoms.



Let us know when you test some of the new synthetic water based rubber products. Best you hurry up because sailing weather is coming soon.

Ed K
 

Attachments

Oct 26, 2005
2,057
- - Satellite Beach, FL.
I used a double row of MS butyl with a little ring around each machine screw and it worked great. The thing I liked about using this product most was not having the mess I usually get into when using a caulk.
It took 3 of us to install the toe rail sections on my boat because of the length and I can't imagine having to do that with slimey, gooey, sticky caulking! I stuck the new machine screws in the toerail (8" spacing) then applied the butyl which helped hold the screws in place. Because I used PVC lumber, we were able to bend the section as it was mounted, the rear section was tougher with the new genny t-track on top. I'd pre-bent the track so this wasn't too bad. I made mine in 3 sections; bow to chainplates (mine are mounted to the hull), chainplate to cockpit and from there to the end of the boat. The gaps between the sections help with drainage.
It was hot out and we were moving as fast as possible and I forgot to take pics with everything together, but here are a couple of the rail when I was drilling for the screws and plugs. Also one of the side deck/house where you can see the butyl squeezing out slightly and like the other poster said, easy to trim off.
 

Attachments

Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Do you need to cover the whole base of the rail...?? Or just spot bed where the screw/bolt goes...?
I would bed the outer edges and where the screws pass through. I might also coat the underside of the rail with epoxy...
 
Oct 22, 2005
93
- - Port Alice
My personal experience after using the butyl has been great. I have been doing a lot of maintenance and upgrades and have used the butyl for almost everything. In addition to it's bedding properties, I really like that there is very little waste, you just cut off what you need. I can't count the number expensive, half empty, dried up tubes of various caulks that I have had to throw away. The product sold by Mainsail is excellent quality and lasts indefinitely with no special storage.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
- - - - // - - - -

Maine Sail,

It is great to see you up on Sunday morning.

You said you use 5200. I have never ending problems where either originally or later 5200 was used and now I have to deal with it.

Whereas everything else is more reasonable to clean and fix.

As I pointed out the problem with getting butyl products is both the manufacturer and EPA. Cheap imitations and the fact that current butyl products use solvents the EPA does not like.

And getting stuff from the far east is like Chinese tools, very unreliable metallurgy.

They are probably making butyl rubber by melting used condoms.



Let us know when you test some of the new synthetic water based rubber products. Best you hurry up because sailing weather is coming soon.

Ed K
Ummm I never said "I" use 5200..:confused: I do use 4200, UV4000 and Sikaflex PU products but not 5200...... I have been ranting against a 700PSI bond strength as needless for years..

My point was that most boaters choose a proven or quality product sold to stand up better in the marine environment. Products like 3M, Boat Life or Sikaflex, some actually like 5200 go figure are not the same as the stuff at K-Mart. They do not usually choose some bathtub caulk from K-Mart even though they are both sold as "polyurethane" sealants...
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Do you need to cover the whole base of the rail...?? Or just spot bed where the screw/bolt goes...?
If you do not put a strip along the entire edge of the rail water will accumulate under the rail and you have a algae growth going on, so a strip on the inboard edge is a good idea (along with each and every screw hole).
 
Jan 22, 2008
328
Beneteau 46 Georgetown YB
Bed-It Butyl Tape

MS - does your butyl tape have a shelf life? Thanks.

DH
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
DH:

Like Don mentioned above. 20 years later the butyl is still soft and plyable. I had a Hunter Cherubini 25 and there were some areas that you could put your hand and feel the butyl that was used to join the deck and hull. It was soft and gooey after 8 years when I sold the boat.

That is also one of the best parts of purchasing butyl over most caulking/sealants. Open a tube of your favorite, use and ounce or two and put the cap back on. Come back in 30-60 days and many of them will have cured in the tube ($12 down the drain).
 
Jan 22, 2008
328
Beneteau 46 Georgetown YB
Perfect

DH:

Like Don mentioned above. 20 years later the butyl is still soft and plyable. I had a Hunter Cherubini 25 and there were some areas that you could put your hand and feel the butyl that was used to join the deck and hull. It was soft and gooey after 8 years when I sold the boat.

That is also one of the best parts of purchasing butyl over most caulking/sealants. Open a tube of your favorite, use and ounce or two and put the cap back on. Come back in 30-60 days and many of them will have cured in the tube ($12 down the drain).

Thanks!
DH
 
Jul 8, 2011
704
Catalina 30 Sidney B.C.
Re: Maine Sail - it is great

In the top pictures most knowledgable people in the RV business call this putty tape and in the bottom pictures it is called butly tape ...big difference
 
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