Bob Knott was nice enough to have a post regarding something that could be changed to make Hunters a little better. Hopefully all these ideas will be noted and taken to the Hunter Design Team for their further consideration. And then we get the "anonymous Cherubini biggot" bitchin' about these new designs. Well, I don't have a Cherubini designed boat. They are trully fine sailing boats, but compared to the next generations that Hunter built, they do not compare for space utilization, and amenities. They are typically underpowered (engines) and the fit and finish do not hold a candle to the newer boats. If you look at the Hunter 46' and compare the fit and finish on this boat to boats costing thousands more I think you will see that Hunter has seen the light. Real mattresses, finished lockers great stuff at an affordable price. Now with that behind us it would be good if they got back to more traditional *SAILBOAT* designs. The fiberglass arches are gone in favor of Stainless Steel (they are listening). I suspect that we may even see metal toe rails in the next few years. The windows really need to go infavor of nice symetrical opening ports (I don't understand why they would even bother to have 3 or 4 different window designs?) As far as not having a back stay, this makes a lot of sense. Just one less thing to break. They do it in offshore racing boats why not cruising boats. I am sure that others out there will have something to add to this. I hope Mr/Ms Anonymous and future ones will just say what they will and own up to their beliefs and convictions (and put their names behind what they want to say). Steve Dion s/v Heather Marie 1985 Hunter 31 Good day.
But Bob, he's Knott all wrong.
- Thread starter Steve Dion
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to steve from a cheribine lover
Now i'm sure that the design team has come up with some great inovations, to inhance the sailability of the euro style fractional pig boats, you admire so well, they made these fractional rigs, because their free board is so great who needs all that sail area, of course if you want to throw a party, there's no place like one on a pig boat, by the way if you wonder where your taste buds went, check your anal gland, i bet you'll find them,
Now i'm sure that the design team has come up with some great inovations, to inhance the sailability of the euro style fractional pig boats, you admire so well, they made these fractional rigs, because their free board is so great who needs all that sail area, of course if you want to throw a party, there's no place like one on a pig boat, by the way if you wonder where your taste buds went, check your anal gland, i bet you'll find them,
CWBB
I thought I was on HOW, but it must be CWBB with all the Hunter bashing going on. We all think that the boat we own is the best Hunter has ever built. Can't we all get along.
I thought I was on HOW, but it must be CWBB with all the Hunter bashing going on. We all think that the boat we own is the best Hunter has ever built. Can't we all get along.
Tom M.
This is sure a great place to have this type of discussion. My point was that Cherubini's *were* great boats. My boat is a 1985 H'31. I personally would not trade for any of the Cherubini's or the new models either because of there looks. I personally believe that the new boats will sail circles around the older vintages. I will bet you that 80% of the owners on this site use their boats for weekend condo's as much as sailing. Because of this the creature comforts are equally important as how well the boat sails. Hunter boats have sold well over the years because of the *TOTAL* package. Easy sail handling, cockpit area (getting the traveler out of the companionion way area and leading all lines aft), larger water tanks, onboard holding tanks, microwaves etc. All of this plays into the ultimate decision to purchase a boat. Most boaters never even know how a boat really sails until they own it for several months or years. I agree that the bulbous look is not for me. I do not like the windows, the toe rails and the way they have done the sterns on the late model boats. I suppose that Hunter could have taken Catalina route and only done minor improvements over the years. Their boats looks have changed very little over the last 20 years. I am not sure that the fractional rigs have much to do with their hull shapes. A lot of boats that cost a lot more and sail a lot faster than Hunters have fractional rigs. This discussion will go on for ever as far as a manufacturer changing their designs for the better or for the worse. What we hope for is when it is time for us to buy something else, will there be something that appeals? Only time will tell. PS: Thanks for including your *name*
This is sure a great place to have this type of discussion. My point was that Cherubini's *were* great boats. My boat is a 1985 H'31. I personally would not trade for any of the Cherubini's or the new models either because of there looks. I personally believe that the new boats will sail circles around the older vintages. I will bet you that 80% of the owners on this site use their boats for weekend condo's as much as sailing. Because of this the creature comforts are equally important as how well the boat sails. Hunter boats have sold well over the years because of the *TOTAL* package. Easy sail handling, cockpit area (getting the traveler out of the companionion way area and leading all lines aft), larger water tanks, onboard holding tanks, microwaves etc. All of this plays into the ultimate decision to purchase a boat. Most boaters never even know how a boat really sails until they own it for several months or years. I agree that the bulbous look is not for me. I do not like the windows, the toe rails and the way they have done the sterns on the late model boats. I suppose that Hunter could have taken Catalina route and only done minor improvements over the years. Their boats looks have changed very little over the last 20 years. I am not sure that the fractional rigs have much to do with their hull shapes. A lot of boats that cost a lot more and sail a lot faster than Hunters have fractional rigs. This discussion will go on for ever as far as a manufacturer changing their designs for the better or for the worse. What we hope for is when it is time for us to buy something else, will there be something that appeals? Only time will tell. PS: Thanks for including your *name*
bad childhood
Tom M. were you an abused child ? you really dont understand the concepts behind certian sail boat designs like fractional rigs do you? do us a favor,gain some knowlage in the area then come back and vent so you dont sound like an idiot
Tom M. were you an abused child ? you really dont understand the concepts behind certian sail boat designs like fractional rigs do you? do us a favor,gain some knowlage in the area then come back and vent so you dont sound like an idiot
Is This Right?
Let me see if I understand your logic? 1. We can sail circles around older vintages 2. Ours are easier to sail 3. ONBOARD HOLDING TANKS!!! Instead of overboard dischard. Glad I'm not your neighbor.
Let me see if I understand your logic? 1. We can sail circles around older vintages 2. Ours are easier to sail 3. ONBOARD HOLDING TANKS!!! Instead of overboard dischard. Glad I'm not your neighbor.
Men who go down to the sea
In New England, we lean heavily towards, traditional sailing boats, medium to low freeboard, narrow beam, and adiquate overhangs. The Cheribini designed Hunters have that appealing flair, mind you, it is nice to have spacious cabin area, but we do our socializing on land. I have to side with Tom M, regarding the sacrifice of traditional style, to achieve the so called "desired" increase space. Some of my brother sailors have labeled them, the "TUPPERWARE TUBS". I would assume, that Hunter design group, has partaken this route, to please the women, who are not into sailing. As for the Hunter line, the last series that I would deem desirable would be the 31' and the 34', everything produced afterwards, have been far too compromising. As for You Tom M. you do know how to stir it up, but perhaps, this is what You wanted to achieve, in the first place. Go get em Tiger!
In New England, we lean heavily towards, traditional sailing boats, medium to low freeboard, narrow beam, and adiquate overhangs. The Cheribini designed Hunters have that appealing flair, mind you, it is nice to have spacious cabin area, but we do our socializing on land. I have to side with Tom M, regarding the sacrifice of traditional style, to achieve the so called "desired" increase space. Some of my brother sailors have labeled them, the "TUPPERWARE TUBS". I would assume, that Hunter design group, has partaken this route, to please the women, who are not into sailing. As for the Hunter line, the last series that I would deem desirable would be the 31' and the 34', everything produced afterwards, have been far too compromising. As for You Tom M. you do know how to stir it up, but perhaps, this is what You wanted to achieve, in the first place. Go get em Tiger!
Might as well wade in
No, I don't think the new Hunters were designed for women. Hunter has a very disciplined process of feeding back owner data into new designs. So, in effect, Hunter owners are getting what Hunter owners ask for. The astehetics are in the eye of the beholder for sure, and I have to admit to prefering the exterior lines of the Legend-era boats, myself. However, I also think the tradeoffs in the new designs are worth it. Now, that's my personal opinion; no more, no less. But I do get a bit riled when I see folks calling the Hunter design team stupid or crazy because they're following their market research. You can argue all you want about the good, the bad, and the indifferent of the designs; the bottom line is, they're selling a tremendous number of these new boats. So somebody out there must like 'em, and I think that alone is more enough to justify the design the decisions. If you don't like the direction, there are *plenty* of other, more traditional options. The sailboat world is filled with manufacturers who didn't pay quite enough attention to what consumers wanted: O'Day, Erickson, Pearson, to name just a few. Hunter is simply following the desires of the majority of its owners, as opposed to the subjective opinions of a solo boat designer who is, in truth, designing boats for himself and his own values, not necessarily ours.
No, I don't think the new Hunters were designed for women. Hunter has a very disciplined process of feeding back owner data into new designs. So, in effect, Hunter owners are getting what Hunter owners ask for. The astehetics are in the eye of the beholder for sure, and I have to admit to prefering the exterior lines of the Legend-era boats, myself. However, I also think the tradeoffs in the new designs are worth it. Now, that's my personal opinion; no more, no less. But I do get a bit riled when I see folks calling the Hunter design team stupid or crazy because they're following their market research. You can argue all you want about the good, the bad, and the indifferent of the designs; the bottom line is, they're selling a tremendous number of these new boats. So somebody out there must like 'em, and I think that alone is more enough to justify the design the decisions. If you don't like the direction, there are *plenty* of other, more traditional options. The sailboat world is filled with manufacturers who didn't pay quite enough attention to what consumers wanted: O'Day, Erickson, Pearson, to name just a few. Hunter is simply following the desires of the majority of its owners, as opposed to the subjective opinions of a solo boat designer who is, in truth, designing boats for himself and his own values, not necessarily ours.
Ralph, what are benefits of overhangs?
Ralph, I concur with most of your points. Excessive freeboard generates windage and raises center of gravity. Excessive beam lessens pointing ability, can cause bad helm, and is often there to make up for too little ballast. But how do overhangs help? Or to put it another way, how does waterline hurt? True, you want some flare forward, unless you like a wet ride. But you can get that even on an all waterline design. The long overhangs we associate with "traditional" yachts are partly the result of the CCA and other race rules that heavily penalized waterline, to compensate for waterline's sailing benefit. Some very traditional designs, unconcerned with race rules, such as the pilot cutters, have relatively long waterlines. Lyle Hess's BCC has a 26'3" waterline on a 28' hull! If there are some benefits to short waterline and long overhangs, I would like to know them, because I sail an old boat with long overhangs, by any measure. Yes, she is beautiful. But weighing object benefits, I think the advantages are all on the side of long waterlines and minimal overhangs.
Ralph, I concur with most of your points. Excessive freeboard generates windage and raises center of gravity. Excessive beam lessens pointing ability, can cause bad helm, and is often there to make up for too little ballast. But how do overhangs help? Or to put it another way, how does waterline hurt? True, you want some flare forward, unless you like a wet ride. But you can get that even on an all waterline design. The long overhangs we associate with "traditional" yachts are partly the result of the CCA and other race rules that heavily penalized waterline, to compensate for waterline's sailing benefit. Some very traditional designs, unconcerned with race rules, such as the pilot cutters, have relatively long waterlines. Lyle Hess's BCC has a 26'3" waterline on a 28' hull! If there are some benefits to short waterline and long overhangs, I would like to know them, because I sail an old boat with long overhangs, by any measure. Yes, she is beautiful. But weighing object benefits, I think the advantages are all on the side of long waterlines and minimal overhangs.
Best response - don't respond
One of the things I love about sailing/cruising is that cruiser and sailors -- generally -- tend to be laid back folks who respect one another and are considerate and supportive of each other. I think its in the nature of the beast -- sailing just doesn't generally attract loud pushy argumentative people. To sail means to give yourself up to (and learn to respect) the dictates of nature in a relatively quiet environment. People who are loud, pushy, argumentative and boisterous usually buy loud, pushy, argumentative boisterous power boats. When I spend the night in the little anchorage at Boca Chita key (my kids love it), its (almost) always the power boats that have floodlights on, engines and radios/TVs blaring. When I meet cruisers, I don't really care what kind of boat they have, the fact that they are into cruising and sailing says a lot to me. Sailors and cruisers have enough to deal with the environment, and usually are very kind and helpful to one another. When you are cruising, you know someday you may need someone's help and that's why you are willing to help others. I love this BB because I generally see the same courteousness exhibited that I generally see from sailor/cruisers. Sure, their is room for discussion, disagreements of opinion, expressions of preference, and even joking and teasing, but it can all be done, and usually is, without making mean-spirited comments about others' views (or boats). So when I see posts by Ralph/Tom (whom I'd bet is the same person based on message, writing style, inability to spell, and the fact that he forgot to change his "home port"), my guess is he's not a cruiser or sailor. And even if he is, the best way to discourage these individuals is to ignore them, and they will eventually go to a loud, pushy argumentative boisterous bulletin board where they can have fun "stirring things up" and insulting each other.
One of the things I love about sailing/cruising is that cruiser and sailors -- generally -- tend to be laid back folks who respect one another and are considerate and supportive of each other. I think its in the nature of the beast -- sailing just doesn't generally attract loud pushy argumentative people. To sail means to give yourself up to (and learn to respect) the dictates of nature in a relatively quiet environment. People who are loud, pushy, argumentative and boisterous usually buy loud, pushy, argumentative boisterous power boats. When I spend the night in the little anchorage at Boca Chita key (my kids love it), its (almost) always the power boats that have floodlights on, engines and radios/TVs blaring. When I meet cruisers, I don't really care what kind of boat they have, the fact that they are into cruising and sailing says a lot to me. Sailors and cruisers have enough to deal with the environment, and usually are very kind and helpful to one another. When you are cruising, you know someday you may need someone's help and that's why you are willing to help others. I love this BB because I generally see the same courteousness exhibited that I generally see from sailor/cruisers. Sure, their is room for discussion, disagreements of opinion, expressions of preference, and even joking and teasing, but it can all be done, and usually is, without making mean-spirited comments about others' views (or boats). So when I see posts by Ralph/Tom (whom I'd bet is the same person based on message, writing style, inability to spell, and the fact that he forgot to change his "home port"), my guess is he's not a cruiser or sailor. And even if he is, the best way to discourage these individuals is to ignore them, and they will eventually go to a loud, pushy argumentative boisterous bulletin board where they can have fun "stirring things up" and insulting each other.
He who is without sin....
I guess I should not comment on Ralph/Tom's spelling ability after just reviewing my "don't respond" post. I seem to be inflicted with the same problem.
I guess I should not comment on Ralph/Tom's spelling ability after just reviewing my "don't respond" post. I seem to be inflicted with the same problem.
Treehouse is too peaceful
Right! Well, its not my treehouse so I'm not throughing out anybody. But I think he/they would be happier at a disco than a treehouse.
Right! Well, its not my treehouse so I'm not throughing out anybody. But I think he/they would be happier at a disco than a treehouse.
To Tom M. of St. Pete
Tom, if memory serves me this is not the first time we've had some issues with the style and aggressiveness of your posts. Now, I don't have any quarrel whatsoever with your opinions on boats, but I can't allow posts like your last on this site. It has been removed. If I have to remove another like this you'll hold the distinction of being the first HOW user to be barred from the site. Now, to everyone else on this thread: some of the prior replies were both provocative and exclusive, neither of which is acceptable. PLEASE tone this thread down and let's get back to discussing boats.
Tom, if memory serves me this is not the first time we've had some issues with the style and aggressiveness of your posts. Now, I don't have any quarrel whatsoever with your opinions on boats, but I can't allow posts like your last on this site. It has been removed. If I have to remove another like this you'll hold the distinction of being the first HOW user to be barred from the site. Now, to everyone else on this thread: some of the prior replies were both provocative and exclusive, neither of which is acceptable. PLEASE tone this thread down and let's get back to discussing boats.
Opportunity?
A possible solution is for those interested in the Cheubini designs is to get Tom/Ralph to buy the molds from Hunter and start up production.. One way to test out what buyers really want? Eric
A possible solution is for those interested in the Cheubini designs is to get Tom/Ralph to buy the molds from Hunter and start up production.. One way to test out what buyers really want? Eric
Foxtrot Echo?
I would have said Bravo Zulu myself, Foxtrot Echo is a new one on me. What does that mean? Oh yeah, my .02 on the matter. Here's what I want: classic lines of Cherubini style, lots of room like euro-style, high-performance like new style (whatever we call them) Solution #1: Design my own and hire a custom builder (NOT) Solution #2: Convince Hunter to build a 50' Cherubini (or similar) style boat from the waterline up with bulb keel and underwaterline similar to newer styles without being too shallow so she'll still perform well (stable) in a big sea way, larger rudder, short rigged cutter with long boom, twin headstays for more sail options, as little beam as possible for performance requirements, etc. Solution #3: Buy the boat described in #2 above from Shannon, they already make one. The point? We all have different uses for our boats. Love my Hunters for what I use them for. When I am looking for the next boat for a different use, I will attempt to find a Hunter that matches the need, if it is not available, I will simply go to another builder, no big deal. Will I love the next boat/builder as much as I love my Hunters? Well, of course I will or I wouldn't buy the dang boat! Can I fall in love with any boat? No. Is the builder of the boat the reason I fall in love with the boat? No. Could any builder convince me to buy a boat that did not fit my needs? No. The new Hunter models do not fit my needs, end of story, really no big deal at all. Do I wish they'd make one for me? Well, considering I'm not the new-boat-buying kind of guy, probably not; it would have to be out there for a few years then I could by a used one. This is not practical for Hunter, I understand that, and I'm therefore not too upset about the whole thing. So, Have a nice day
I would have said Bravo Zulu myself, Foxtrot Echo is a new one on me. What does that mean? Oh yeah, my .02 on the matter. Here's what I want: classic lines of Cherubini style, lots of room like euro-style, high-performance like new style (whatever we call them) Solution #1: Design my own and hire a custom builder (NOT) Solution #2: Convince Hunter to build a 50' Cherubini (or similar) style boat from the waterline up with bulb keel and underwaterline similar to newer styles without being too shallow so she'll still perform well (stable) in a big sea way, larger rudder, short rigged cutter with long boom, twin headstays for more sail options, as little beam as possible for performance requirements, etc. Solution #3: Buy the boat described in #2 above from Shannon, they already make one. The point? We all have different uses for our boats. Love my Hunters for what I use them for. When I am looking for the next boat for a different use, I will attempt to find a Hunter that matches the need, if it is not available, I will simply go to another builder, no big deal. Will I love the next boat/builder as much as I love my Hunters? Well, of course I will or I wouldn't buy the dang boat! Can I fall in love with any boat? No. Is the builder of the boat the reason I fall in love with the boat? No. Could any builder convince me to buy a boat that did not fit my needs? No. The new Hunter models do not fit my needs, end of story, really no big deal at all. Do I wish they'd make one for me? Well, considering I'm not the new-boat-buying kind of guy, probably not; it would have to be out there for a few years then I could by a used one. This is not practical for Hunter, I understand that, and I'm therefore not too upset about the whole thing. So, Have a nice day
FU@#ING EH!!
Or also: You make a very salient point, even were I as gifted at prose or as eloquent as are you I am certain thatI could not have expressed as well or with as much feeling as have you. Thank you ever so much for speaking up.
Or also: You make a very salient point, even were I as gifted at prose or as eloquent as are you I am certain thatI could not have expressed as well or with as much feeling as have you. Thank you ever so much for speaking up.
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