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Bulkhead. Thickness

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
7,113
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Ugh I just replace my main bulkhead with the 1/2 as original is 3/4 inch what people are recommending now I didn't see that in the mastbeam PDFSent from my iPhone
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Joe,

I replaced the mast beam maybe 3 years ago with a maybe 40mm hardwood beam with stainless backing plate. Very strong.


In 2016 I started to see some buckling in the bulkheads - probably due to tensioning the rig more than the designer intended!



So I sourced a piece of top quality marine ply 10mm thick (not the cheap "marine ply" you can get from a builder\'s supply but over €200 for a standard sheet from a specialist supplier incl delivery).


The fitter used thin flexible "linoleum" to make templates the same shape as the existing bulkheads then cut the new bulkheads to the same shape.

He glued and through bolted the new bulkheads to the existing ones which eliminated the buckling and greatly strengthened the set up.


Also bolted the combined bulkheads to the flanges at base and glassed the forward face of the mast  support beam in place to prevent it slipping forward.


Finally he fitted two diagonal hardwood beams maybe 10cm wide and 1cm thick from the mast support beam, through bolted to the aft faces of the  bulkheads  and finishing at the inner  underwater hull at height of bunk.


Very strong setup now I think. And maybe overkill but I prefer that to my previous setup..


Pics available if anyone wants.


John V1447 Breakaway


--

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)

+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)

Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...

University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927

IRELAND Web:
 
Apr 3, 2016
12
JohnThanks, a picture would be great     Did you put the SS plate on the aft side of the bulkhead between the original beam my fiberglass flange is only flat on 1 side and about 5-6mm thick did the new piece just butt up to the upper edge.. that attachment seems complex  unless you shorten your  berths and side panels and slide the new panel in between the flange and the original bulkhead effectively moving the bulkhead aft 10mmsorry for so many questions  did you just use thickened epoxy for the putty between the bulkhead and hull and did you seal your deck at the base of the mastJoe Mendiola  On Thursday, March 9, 2017 3:48 AM, "John.Kinsella John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega]" <AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 


















Joe,

I replaced the mast beam maybe 3 years ago with a maybe 40mm hardwood beam with stainless backing plate. Very strong.


In 2016 I started to see some buckling in the bulkheads - probably due to tensioning the rig more than the designer intended!



So I sourced a piece of top quality marine ply 10mm thick (not the cheap "marine ply" you can get from a builder\'s supply but over €200 for a standard sheet from a specialist supplier incl delivery).


The fitter used thin flexible "linoleum" to make templates the same shape as the existing bulkheads then cut the new bulkheads to the same shape.

He glued and through bolted the new bulkheads to the existing ones which eliminated the buckling and greatly strengthened the set up.


Also bolted the combined bulkheads to the flanges at base and glassed the forward face of the mast  support beam in place to prevent it slipping forward.


Finally he fitted two diagonal hardwood beams maybe 10cm wide and 1cm thick from the mast support beam, through bolted to the aft faces of the  bulkheads  and finishing at the inner  underwater hull at height of bunk.


Very strong setup now I think. And maybe overkill but I prefer that to my previous setup..


Pics available if anyone wants.


John V1447 Breakaway


--

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)

+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)

Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...

University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927

IRELAND Web:
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Joe,
I'll get a few pics at weekend.

Re mast support beam, the original msb was first reinforced by the
stainless steel piece (with same cross section shape) then replaced
by a thicker piece, again with the stainless steel piece bolted to
it.

In both cases the ss piece was bolted through the forward face of
the mast support beam.

The berths are covered by a piece of thin (?5mm) ply that is
supported by a piece of softwood at forward end Port & Stbd.
This was screwed to the bulkhead so all that the fitter had to do
was remove the softwood blocks, shorten the berth ply by 10-15 mm,
secure the new bulkhead to the old (lots of "manhours") then
resecure the softwood blocks to aft face of new bulkhead and
resecure the (now 10 mm shorter) berth bases to the softwood blocks.

The side panels also had to be shortened ("rebated" is the word that
the fitter used) at forward end by 10-15 mm to allow the new
bulkheads to be inserted aft of the old ones and then "glued and
bolted" in place.

Hope I have understood your question?

Re the flanges on deck (inside the underwater hull) to which the
bases of the bulkheads are secured, yes the new bulkheads are also
through bolted (with longer bolts) through both the new & old
bulkheads to the flanges.

Of course the rigging had to be completely slackened off & the
mast support beam jacked up with a "bottle jack" to allow the work
to be done.

The glassing where forward face of mast support beam meets the
inside of coach roof was done with "woven roving" (strips of glass
fibre matting wetted with resin). This was covered with gel coat
when dry - probably the least visually ok part of the job but I
rarely look at the forward face of the msb..

(Even though it was expensive, I believe the fitted earned his money
& I couldn't have done the job on my own & even with a
helper I wouldn't have done it as well.)

As always, these projects are difficult to describe unless you are
looking at them... :)

John

On 09/03/17 21:46, joseph mendiola
jam9991@... [AlbinVega] wrote:
 
Apr 3, 2016
12
John don't trouble yourself taking pictures your explanation was just what I needed. I've replaced all of those panels you describe and I understand exactly what was done Thanks Joe Sent from my iPhone
 
Oct 15, 2015
206
I would love to see pics of your modification. I reinforced my mast support beam with Steve Birch's Stainless plate on the fore as well as a 5/16" 5056 aluminum plate thru bolted on the aft beam. Epoxy primer sealed. I also glued 1/2" marine plywood to the bulkheads under the settee, form fitted to increase the bulkhead footprint and then replaced the bulkhead fasteners with 1/4" stainless bolts all around. The original bulkhead fasteners were bent and the holes elongated. I had also considered attaching stringers to the forward side of the bulkheads (diagonal) to decrease its bowing action but wondered if this was overkill. Any thoughts? From: "John Kinsella John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega]" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Bulkhead. Thickness







Joe,
I'll get a few pics at weekend.

Re mast support beam, the original msb was first reinforced by the
stainless steel piece (with same cross section shape) then replaced
by a thicker piece, again with the stainless steel piece bolted to
it.

In both cases the ss piece was bolted through the forward face of
the mast support beam.

The berths are covered by a piece of thin (?5mm) ply that is
supported by a piece of softwood at forward end Port & Stbd.
This was screwed to the bulkhead so all that the fitter had to do
was remove the softwood blocks, shorten the berth ply by 10-15 mm,
secure the new bulkhead to the old (lots of "manhours") then
resecure the softwood blocks to aft face of new bulkhead and
resecure the (now 10 mm shorter) berth bases to the softwood blocks.

The side panels also had to be shortened ("rebated" is the word that
the fitter used) at forward end by 10-15 mm to allow the new
bulkheads to be inserted aft of the old ones and then "glued and
bolted" in place.

Hope I have understood your question?

Re the flanges on deck (inside the underwater hull) to which the
bases of the bulkheads are secured, yes the new bulkheads are also
through bolted (with longer bolts) through both the new & old
bulkheads to the flanges.

Of course the rigging had to be completely slackened off & the
mast support beam jacked up with a "bottle jack" to allow the work
to be done.

The glassing where forward face of mast support beam meets the
inside of coach roof was done with "woven roving" (strips of glass
fibre matting wetted with resin). This was covered with gel coat
when dry - probably the least visually ok part of the job but I
rarely look at the forward face of the msb..

(Even though it was expensive, I believe the fitted earned his money
& I couldn't have done the job on my own & even with a
helper I wouldn't have done it as well.)

As always, these projects are difficult to describe unless you are
looking at them... :)

John

On 09/03/17 21:46, joseph mendiola
jam9991@... [AlbinVega] wrote:
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Tim,

Well yes i added stringers (diagonal struts) to aft face of bulkheads and maybe ott.They look good too.. :)Apart from that the major difference from your setup i think is that i doubled up the bulkhead thickness over the entire area if i have read correctly?Partly motivated by a slight buckling in the upper corner of starboard bulkhead. These problems rarely fix themselves!I've had the boat since 2005 and sick of fiddling with bulkheads so decided to go for a "this time I'll fix it " bullet proof (i hope) strategy.Of course something else will crop up to bite me in the a55, the joy of owning an old boat. :|John V1447 BreakawayI'll post pics Sunday night (early Monday in US E coast).John --

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)

+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)

Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...

University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927

IRELAND Web:
 
Jan 28, 2001
694
Just wondering, Lyric is a series 1 and has never had a problem with the support beam. Oops the wrecked series 2 that I bought as salvage was a series 2 and had a much lighter support beam. It has me wondering if any other series 1 boats have had this problem
or is it only common with later models?

Walt
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com on behalf of John.Kinsella John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega] AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 11:35 AM
To: Tim Malone alaskaflyfish@... [AlbinVega]
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Bulkhead. Thickness




Tim,

Well yes i added stringers (diagonal struts) to aft face of bulkheads and maybe ott.They look good too.. :)Apart from that the major difference from your setup i think is that i doubled up the bulkhead thickness over the entire area if i have read correctly?Partly motivated by a slight buckling in the upper corner of starboard bulkhead. These problems rarely fix themselves!I've had the boat since 2005 and sick of fiddling with bulkheads so decided to go for a "this time I'll fix it " bullet proof (i hope) strategy.Of course something else will crop up to bite me in the a55, the joy of owning an old boat. :|John V1447 BreakawayI'll post pics Sunday night (early Monday in US E coast).John --

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)

+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)

Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...

University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927

IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
A friend has a series 3 and tells me that they are also untroubled by mast support problems.Are the mast support bulkheads on series 1 & 3 just 10mm thick or maybe thicker?John V1447 Breakaway--

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)

+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)

Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...

University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927

IRELAND Web:
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Thanks Gene. My bad. Mine must be 12mm too.. Half an inch.

And now 24 mm - an inch thick..JohnSent from
TypeApp
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Tim,
see
for 3 pics.
Hope they are self-explanatory.

John V1447 Breakaway

On 10/03/17 17:35, Tim Malone
alaskaflyfish@... [AlbinVega] wrote:
 
Oct 15, 2015
206
Hi John, The diagonal braces you have are exactly what I had in mind except on the other side of the bulkhead. When winter breaks here in Alaska I will take some pictures and post them to the forum for all to see. Hopefully the pics will help others when affecting a repair to this area. For me, this bulkhead strengthening was purely preventative maintenance based on some observations I had made while inspecting that area. Foremost being the elongated and bent fasteners that attach the bulkhead to the hull flanges. Secondly, as an aircraft inspector I am very familiar with compression failures in wood spar wings and saw some evidence of light hairline compression failures in the aft face of the upper spar. This is the reason why I have a reinforcing plates both fore and aft. From: "John Kinsella John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega]" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Bulkhead. Thickness







Tim,
see
for 3 pics.
Hope they are self-explanatory.

John V1447 Breakaway

On 10/03/17 17:35, Tim Malone
alaskaflyfish@... [AlbinVega] wrote: