Bulges on Keel on Hunter 376

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
195
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
Hi all,

Looking for a little info from folks to gauge whether I need to take action on an issue....

We own a 1996 Hunter 376 with a full draft (not-shoal) lead keel. We're based in Wisconsin on Lake Superior, so the boat gets hauled out each winter. The boat was new to us in 2021, so we're going into our third season.

Last year I noticed a few hairline cracks at the hull-keel joint. No water was coming in through the keel bolts into the bilge, so I V'd out the crack and sealed with GFlex assuming that the cracks were probably from the keel having flexed some. I also noticed that we had a couple of bulges down toward the bottom of the keel (extending above flat by maybe 1/4" over an area about the size of a softball). I assumed that maybe some water leaked in between the fiberglass and the lead and bulged when the hard freeze hit.

Last season I took the drill and put a little hole at the bottom of the bulge, assuming that this would drain any accumulated water. However, I found that the coating on the keel was only about 1/8" of epoxy (maybe less) with no fiberglass or other filler type material. When drilling there was no gap between the coating and the lead, and no water came out. I filled in this gap with GFlex, we launched, and had a good season.

I wasn't present for haul out or winterizing last fall (an unfortunate incident involving stairs and broken bones two days before our scheduled haul-out date), so did not get to inspect the bottom of the boat pre-winter. We made it to up to the boat to uncover last weekend (it's been an eternal winter), as I was inspecting things I noticed another bulge in the keel (in a different place). Now, it's been a year, so I THINK it is a new bulge, although I'm not 100% certain--there is a chance that when I drilled l last season and didn't find water I just left this bulge and didn't touch it. That said, I'm wondering if there is action to be taken. The bulge(s) are low on the keel, so no where near keel bolts or where the keel attaches to the boat. I don't see any bulges on the bottom of the keel or on the wings. The GFlex that I used on at the keel joint looks solid (no cracking, everything in place) as does the GFlex I used to fill the "drain" hole.

My questions:

What exactly is the coating on the lead keel for the 1996 vintage hunters? Is it fiberglass or epoxy? Is it just a thick paint? Is it even possible for water to have made its way between the lead and that coating?

The bulge is down low, so I don't think there is any potential of impact to the hull/keel joint. But it certainly feels like there is water in there somewhere. If I knock/press the bulge is solid--this isn't a blister. I'm just not sure as to action to be taken and haven't found a lot of specific info about how these keels are constructed. I'm mostly wondering if I have an action step here before launching in a few weeks.

Thanks!
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,242
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
The bulge is down low, so I don't think there is any potential of impact to the hull/keel joint.
We have a boat in our marina that had water get down to the bottom of the keel bolt and after it froze last winter, it pushed the lead outwards in a bulge on both sides.
He has yet to determine how to repair and is consulting with MarsKeel.

Not saying you have the exact same problem, but is it possible the bulge is at the bottom of a keel bolt ? Might become part of the failure/repair equation?
 

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
195
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
Hi Leeward Rail!

It's possible that it's from the keel bolts, but I think this is too far down the keel. From the documentation I see the keel bolts on the 376 are only 1" long. This is 2+ feet below the keel joint.

I was looking, I found a picture of the repair last year. The bulge this year is at a similar level but on the other side. Correction, I just did my mental math, the bulge is on the same side, but perhaps a bit lower, under the repair from last year. I can't tell based on this pic, but I don't think that this year's bulge was present last year.

Doug


We have a boat in our marina that had water get down to the bottom of the keel bolt and after it froze last winter, it pushed the lead outwards in a bulge on both sides.
He has yet to determine how to repair and is consulting with MarsKeel.

Not saying you have the exact same problem, but is it possible the bulge is at the bottom of a keel bolt ? Might become part of the failure/repair equation?
 

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Last edited:
Mar 20, 2015
3,242
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
keel bolts on the 376 are only 1" long
That is possibly how far they stick above the keel sump. And even then... The nuts are likely 3/4 or 1 inch thick.
I can't see any way they would only be 1 inch long when they need to go way down into the keel, with a nut+washer or a j shaped bend in the bottom.

This is 2+ feet below the keel joint.
Exactly where the bottom of the keel bolts are on the boat at our marina. In that boat's case the water is likely seeping down from the bilge or seeping into the keel joint and down the bolts. Apparently the keel surface didn't have any cracks last fall or in the previous years, to allow water below fairing compound etc. It physically pushed the lead outwards, not the outer coating


See attached for photos of keel bolts with vertical strips of part of the lead keel removed for bolt replacement, and how long the bolts often stick out of the keel to go through the keel sump
 

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duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
195
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
Fair point. I'm not sure how deep they go into the keel on my boat. I'll keep googling (and update if I can find definitive info) or, perhaps someone else on the forum has additional knowledge.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,242
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
ll keep googling (and update if I can find definitive info)
Call hunter. Aren't they still in business ?

Or even MarsKeel..they may have made your keel

Easier to ask the people who made your boat.
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,771
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I can tell you how to repair all of it, if you are interested.

Also blue keel picture is a long shoal draft keel.;)


Jim...
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,988
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
When cast lead keels come out of the sand mold, they are pretty ugly. Boat builders use a lot of fairing compound to smooth over the ugly bits, that's why there is no glass on the keel.

Odd things also happen in the foundry. This photo looks a little like the photo of your keel.

1683579884124.png


After some hammering and exploratory surgery this is what I found.

1683579961454.png


Some of the casting sand had fallen into the lead. Eventaully some water found its way in there and over many winters had caused the lead to bubble out.

The repair was straight forward. Clean it all out, wire brush it and immediately coat with neat epoxy. Then fill in with multiple layers of thickened epoxy and finally a coat or two of epoxy fairing compound. The repair was completed in 2016 and the only evidence of the repair is the better fairing job on the repair than the rest of the keel.

For the long crack between the keel sump and the keel, check the torque on the keel bolts and retorque them to specs. Over time the caulk compress and the forces on the keel cause this type of crack to form. Water can get behind the sealant, which is what happened in the first photo.
 
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Likes: Leeward Rail

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
195
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
The great thing about a "long shoal draft" is it'll always find the bottom before the run of the mill "standard" shoal drafts. :)

Definitely interested in learning more about the repair options (and determining best course of action).



I can tell you how to repair all of it, if you are interested.

Also blue keel picture is a long shoal draft keel.;)


Jim...
 

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
195
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
I'm lucky in that the keel joint crack was only at the stern end of the keel. I'm not too proud to admit that I tapped the ground once on our second day out with the boat, I have wondered if that was what created that crack. That said, there were signs of previous repairs on the keel, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was somewhat of an ongoing issue. The surveyor didn't wasn't concerned, however, and wrote that off as simply part and parcel for a 25 year old vessel.

That said, I hadn't really considered that this all may just be a function of imperfections in the lay up of the lead. Thanks for the pictures and the info.

My main line of questioning is determining whether this is a "must fix now" action item (I.E. if it appears to be something where NOT doing a repair this season is going to cost me significantly more in the future) or if it's something that should be addressed but that isn't really going to progress. Unless the issue is water around the keel bolts my impression is it maybe more the latter, but I trust the feedback all of you more experienced members of the forum (hence asking the question).

I do think I may give the folks at Marskeel a call tomorrow, just to chat it through with them as well.

Doug



When cast lead keels come out of the sand mold, they are pretty ugly. Boat builders use a lot of fairing compound to smooth over the ugly bits, that's why there is no glass on the keel.

Odd things also happen in the foundry. This photo looks a little like the photo of your keel.

View attachment 215481

After some hammering and exploratory surgery this is what I found.

View attachment 215482

Some of the casting sand had fallen into the lead. Eventaully some water found its way in there and over many winters had caused the lead to bubble out.

The repair was straight forward. Clean it all out, wire brush it and immediately coat with neat epoxy. Then fill in with multiple layers of thickened epoxy and finally a coat or two of epoxy fairing compound. The repair was completed in 2016 and the only evidence of the repair is the better fairing job on the repair than the rest of the keel.

For the long crack between the keel sump and the keel, check the torque on the keel bolts and retorque them to specs. Over time the caulk compress and the forces on the keel cause this type of crack to form. Water can get behind the sealant, which is what happened in the first photo.
 

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
195
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
I assumed it was fiberglass underneath, but the coating was so thin I wasn't sure. Mine seemed more like just epoxy vs. the full layup with fg matting and epoxy on top.

This is over the keel--above that, where the keel mounts to the boat, is a full fiberglass layup, of course.

Doug



Like this?

View attachment 215480


Lead keel to boat Fiberglass

Jim...
 

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
195
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
Indeed, I think I'll give Marskeel a call tomorrow.

That said, I see that Marlow Hunter has fairly extensive PDF documentation on their site, even for older boats.

Index of /wp-content/export/Model-Information for the parent directory (I drilled down for the 376, which included schematics for the full keel).

Thank you!
Doug

Call hunter. Aren't they still in business ?

Or even MarsKeel..they may have made your keel

Easier to ask the people who made your boat.
 
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Likes: Leeward Rail
Mar 20, 2015
3,242
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
for the parent directory (I drilled down for the 376, which included schematics for the full keel
Perfect ! That should help determine if the issue lines up with the bolts or is an easier fix. I wish more boat builders made that stuff available for old boats.
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,771
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I had a quick phone call with @duck21.

He knows what he is doing about repairs to his keel.

Most have been done.

Jim...
 
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Likes: Leeward Rail
Jun 8, 2004
10,455
-na -NA Anywhere USA
@duck21 and @JamesG161

Hunter Marine was purchased by David Marlow through bankruptcy because the profits were used to prop up three power boat manufacturers that were hurting due to the 2008 recession. Marlow got rid of dealer financing loosing a majority of dealers

Current information was posted here by owners and the old Hunter manufacturer. This included Eddie Breeden, Hunter warranty manager, and one of my customer, Jim Seamons. I too have contributed here too as a retired dealer.

Currently, Sailboat Owners and Hunter owners is owned by a former Hunter employee and staffed with Hunter former employees as well as other sailboat owners.

The forum store has the build list of parts for the Hunter sailboats except for a few prior to 1985. They even offer a help service.
So you not only have qualified help here but that includes many sailors who give back here with a lot of experience because they too want to. As for Jim Seamons, I lost a very dear friend to cancer but he helped others here till his death