Bucvalue

[Tim R.]

I am trying to figure out how to make an offer on a boat without being too high and also without insulting the owner/broker. If I can back up my offer with a Bucvalue or Boatus quote, I can avoid this issue. The boat in question has been on the market at least since last May and the price has been dropped by 5k since then but it is still higher than the Busvalue by about 10k. I have already taken into consideration extras and maintenance and the boat classifies as "fair". they are asking $52,500 and the Bucvalue gives $42,500 as the value. It is a 1 owner boat but it needs some cosmetics. No extra electronics(no GPS or Radar). Normal suit of sails. Would you say the Bucvalue is fairly accurate or is it usually high or low?How about the Boatus value calculator?ThanksTim R.

 

[Don]

good question

I'd be interested in other's experience. It appears to me BUC and Boatus provides wholesale value regardless of what they indicate.I'd suggest you go to the broker - they can pull ACTUAL SALE PRICE from Yachtworld.com as well as other sources which us ordinary folks don't see. If they refuse, you can infer why they don't want you to see it.Don

 

[Mike]

Accurate, but....

I did the same research when purchasing my boat. I found the BUC value to be on the low side for my boat, even after factoring in the extras. Why? I think it is because the book does not take into account the popularity/scarcity of a particular model in a particular area. It may be that these local factors will drive the usually reasonable BUC value up or down.

 

[Tim R.]

Good point however

This boat is rare on the east coast but it is also a boat that only an enthusiast may want. It is a high performance 34 ft. racer/cruiser with a tiller. Most want a wheel on a boat this big.The owners are very, VERY well off and have already purchased a much bigger boat.I think they may go for a lower bid but I am afraid the broker may not pass it to them if he thinks it is too low.Tim R.

 

[Jack2438]

Tim

Just a thought, instead of you justifying your offer, ask the broker to explain the high selling price. I would have to want a boat awfully bad to pay 25% over retail. Have you done some research on that particlar model? Look it up at boattraderonline.com and see what that asking prices are for that year/model. Maybe try a 'boatloan bank' and ask what they woould loan on that model or try a boat surveyor. If it were me, I would do a lot of research before talking money but I also understand that you have to start somewhere. Gooid luck, Jack

 

[Tim R.]

Thanks Jack

I have done a lot of research and I am just trying to qualify the accuracy of what I have found. Unfortunately this is the only boat of it's kind for sale right now that I could find by checking all the major sources. I do know of a mailing list where I can email the 15 or so registerred owners of these boats and see what they think.Tim R.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Used Boat prices...

... are what a buyer, like you, is willing to pay. While it may be "nice" to get some reference points for similiar boats selling in your area (and I think Buc/Nada and similar sources only vaguely relate to what boats actually sell for), in the end, the key is what is the boat worth to you? Once you make that price and your rationale known to the broker, he is obligated to pass it on the owner/seller. While it is refreshing to know that you do not want to insult the broker or owner with what you think may be a low bid, that should not be a primary concern. You must figure out what your bottom line is, that is, what is the highest price you would buy this boat for? Take 10 per cent off that price and negotiate up to it, not past it. You must be sincere and ready to move on if you can't get it for that price. Sellers of unique boats with unique equipment only have a few choices: wait (perhaps long periods of time) for that one buyer, or get real and price their boats realistically and sell them fast.

 

[TJ]

Make your offer

Tim, make a low offer or offer you can afford regardless of the brokers feelings all they can say is "no". More important is if you really want this rare boat. With spring around the corner someone may beat you to it. Don't let the broker know how much you want the boat, let him think you are considering other cheaper yachts. By all means put a deadline on your offer, just like buying a home. Let us know what happens.TJ

 

[Dave]

Negotiation strategy

Tim,A real estate agent friend of mine gave me the following advice on buying a house. If you are not bidding against anyone else, the low-ball strategy is a good one, especially if the property has been on the market for some time. Then you can negotiate off of your starting point. If on the other hand you know that there are other active bidders, then offer a price that is high enough that you won't be upset if you get outbid and lose the property to a higher bidder.While this is not a house, the cost is similar to my first house (yikes, I must be old). If this is a boat that has been on the market for going on 9 months, it would seem to me that the low-ball strategy could work here. If a broker won't take a low-ball offer to a seller who has had their boat on the market for 9 months, then that broker is not doing his/her job. This assumes the seller has not told the broker not to bring offers unless they are at a level above some benchmark, and your offer is below that point. IMHO, don't worry about insulting anyone. You have to decide whether you are happier holding on to your money or having the boat and the seller has to make the same decision. Make your offer, let the seller consider it and if it is rejected, then let the negotiations begin. Good luck and let us know if you get the boat.Daves/v Hakuna MatataO'Day 222 - which was purchased for significantly less than the asking price at the beginning of the sailing season

 

[Tim R.]

Great advice

This is all great advice. I will probably not make an offer for about a week. I will let you know.BTW, I do not feel there is any other interest in this boat.Tim R.

 

[Seattle Scott]

Tim, offer 38K

OK OK, but something low. Others have given great advice. I would add, the boat I bought was same price range and days on market as the one you are looking at. Boat went on market in the spring at 59, then reduced to 53or55 in fall. I came along in January and offered upper 30s, seller countered with upper 40s and I walked away. Then I made same upper 30s offer on same type of boat a year older ( but better condition)who was asking around 55. The second seller didn't make a counter offer, but broker said there was some room to move but not until I got over 40. So I think this second guy is really looking for upper 40s and I am looking for lower 40s. So I walk away. Meanwhile, the first broker keeps checking in with me "are you still in the market?" and making noise that his seller will move some more. So I am thinking, whats the rush to get a boat in the middle of winter ( Seattle) so I lie low for a few more weeks and a couple more calls from the first broker. Then I come up 1K, seller comes down 2K and around we go. Anyway bought low 40s.Offer low, like mid winter Maine low, worse thing that happens you get no counter offer. The sit back and see who blinks first.

 

[Steve Dion]

Just paid 63k for a boat they were asking 80k

Tim:I just purchased a boat for $63,000 that the broker had listed for $79,900. This boat was in almost new condition (but is actually 11 years old). The engine has less that 100 hrs.I was suprised that the owner agreed to let the boat go for that price so you never know.

 

[Bob]

Maybe he is insulting YOU

This boat is priced high and needs work? What's wrong with this picture? You are in the driver's seat, unless you have fallen in love with the boat and can't bear to walk away from the deal. The owners already have what they want - another boat. It hasn't sold in almost a year, it's winter, a limited potential buyer pool, etc., etc. This is every boat buyer's dream situation - don't worry about insulting anyone, what is relevant is what the boat is worth to you. If you are the only prospective buyer they have, and you walk, then they are right back where they were last May, looking at one more year of storage.

 

[Sanders]

Bid low, or pass

I agree with much of what has been said. But for emphasis:A broker has an obligation to pass along any offer, even if he thinks it is awful, unless specifically instructed not do to so. I haven't found brokers to be overly sensitive souls. Their cut won't change that much.The owners may we wealthy, but no one likes to pay upkeep and docking fees for two boats, one unusable. That's like pouring money into a pit. It's been almost a year, and the boat is overpriced still.If it makes you feel better, attach a copy of the BUC value with your offer to demonstrate you are not playing games. He'll argue but that's fine, let him counter.You never know what motivates sellers to ask too much. House prices in Florida and California are starting to tumble a bit, because everyone kept raising the ante to see how long it would work. Now prices are dropping.My boat had been on the market a year when I bought it, for a lot less than the original (unreasonable) asking price of $70,000. I offered 15% below the reduced price, and they met me in the middle, which we both thought was fair. Turned out the seller was desperate for cash. I was willing to go elsewhere.You never know.Good luck.Sanderss/v Good News

 

[Landsend]

Offer what it's worth to you....

or what you're willing to pay for it. Always bid low and work up slowly. If you're too out of line, the broker will tell you.You have to start somwhere.

 

[sailortonyb]

Forget the Philosophy Lessons

Item No. 1). The broker is required BY LAW to deliver whatever offer you make, no matter how rediculous it may sound.2). The broker wants to make a sale, so in order to do this they will try to talk you up as high as they can and talk the owner down as much as they can.3). The brokers are trained in the art of sales, dont tell them what to tell the owner, just tell the broker why you are making the offering price.NOW FOR THE BIGGIE....Brokers like for you to use BUCNET because it shows the higher value and therefore you would accept the fact this is what it is worth.....HOWEVER, after 5 months of battling with my insurance company, you will find that if you have a claim, that the Ins. Co. will use NADA which is usually lower than BUCNET. BUCNET and NADA both claim that their prices are based on nation wide averages of the SALE price of the boat. Obviously, they should match but they dont. So, even though you dont want insurance, the next owner might if you try to sell your boat.  And lastly, read the notes at the bottom of NADA and BUCNET as to what constitutes " average condition" i. e. the typical eqpt that would be found on a boat that size.Remember, make your offer on what NADA says and dont concern yourself about the asking price. The book value , which is the average sale price that these boats have sold for recently takes into consideration any uniqueness that this particular model may have. The Marine surveyor, which most insurance companies require, will assess the value of your boat based on the book value, but this too can be disputed by your insurance company. Sit with the broker in his/her office and they will gladly pull up BUCNET, NADA and i believe, but not confirmed, that Yachtworld.com will give info to brokers as the the actual sale price of similar models

 

[Tim R.]

NADA...really?

They state the average value to be between 34,000 and 35,000. That really seems low. I am sure I will get laughed at if I offer that.Tim R.

 

[Don]

BUC

couple of other points to add:Insurance companies don't use this - I had the misfortune of a total loss 3 yrs ago and ACTUAL SALES HISTORY easily obtainable from a number of sources including honest brokers can provide you with that info.Also BUC values are typically LOWER than actual sales prices.You can also obtain better info directly from your underwriter

 

[sailortonyb]

So What if they laugh

They might laugh harder if you overpay. Seriously, talk to your insurance company and they will tell you what they think its worth, because if you have a claim, its your insurance company that you will have to deal with, not the laughing broker. One of the main principals in bargaining is that you put a price on what its worth to you and the rest of the world and be able to walk away if the price isn't right.If you are bound and determined to 'fall in love' the you should be able to accept the consequences if you ever decide to sell or the unpleasant likelyhood of an insurance claim.If your love your boat and keep it till your death, then whatever you paid was a good price. Have you ever 'fallen out of love?'. Anyway,Im in the boat market myself right now and it is a lot of fun and very scarey at the same time. We tend to put our budget to its limits and this in itself can be very stressful, at least for me. I never thought that i would ever have to have an insurance claim, but along came a lady named Katrina. So, for me too, the process of buying is on again.Good luck in whatever you decide. Hope im not to cynical sounding. Regards.............Tony B

 

[sailme2]

What's it worth to you?

What's it worth to me?That's the #1 question you have to ask yourself. If it's been on the market for more than a few months with no action, there's usually one of two things wrong...it's either priced too high, or there's something wrong with it. You have to determine which it is. I've never been afraid to start with a 'too low' offer, or just walk away it the seller isn't willing to negotiate. As far as dealing with sales pressure, my motto is: "If it's not there when I want it, it wasn't meant to be mine to begin with."Anything is only worth what someone's willing to pay for it. Good luck.