Tiller Replacement….. Hope everyone had a glorious Thanksgiving… The holiday three-hour sail resulted on a broken tiller. During this unexpected accident, I wished, for several seconds that I had a way to roll up the front sail, maybe the roller fuller is not that bad of an idea after all. Anyways, was able to jump over the transom, sit on the rudder and keep the H 23 from hurting anyone onboard. My crew did great in bringing the boat under control, not spilling anything on the floor or getting hit with the boom as it violently came around while I was jumping over the stern………. an aluminum oar that was superimposed where the tiller is attached to the rudder, and the front sheets and main were eased so as to regroup and for me to come back on board. Water was in the sixties, temp was like 78…nice turkey day… Question: As I wait on a replacement tiller that I purchased to be mailed / delivered, I wonder if there is another type of tiller material (Aluminum / Composite / or reinforced) that can procured / purchased anywhere. Maybe an aluminum shop. The feel and look of the wood is nice but this was a really bad experience, and thankfully in an inland lake with a good outcome, but never the less the broken tiller surprised me. It was not that windy, we weren’t going that fast and the boat had very little weight down under. The boat did feel different, before the tiller broke. She was sailing against some current, and would not pick up speed as fast as other times….. There is no water on the boat, the water ballast were taken out, except one in front of the keel, I was holding onto the tiller with both hands, real hard, and the boat was only listing like 18 –20 degrees. I have had her a bit more tightly than that and still steer her easily. The boat felt different that day. Nothing on the keel; the rudder was all the way down with the wooden dowels keeping it straight down, and SNAP………..broken tiller. I am glad there were three people on the boat……….. and the water was not very cold…. Any recommendations to an alternate tiller material? Maybe a 44” tiller machined out of T-Top Aluminum tubing? That sounds logical to me or maybe one made out of Composite with a real strong butt block. Thank you in advance for you anticipated comments and recommendations, Frank
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Laminated wood/epoxy?
Very surprising. The tiller on my 20' daysailer appears as strong as I would ever want. I wonder what you were experiencing that required that much torque? I would still stay with wood. Probably one of those laminated type.
Very surprising. The tiller on my 20' daysailer appears as strong as I would ever want. I wonder what you were experiencing that required that much torque? I would still stay with wood. Probably one of those laminated type.
Frank - a few questions
Hi Frank - did this happen on an H23 or 23.5? I'm asking because you referenced water ballast. I vaguely remember somebody asking about portable jugs/bladders being used for ballast on the H23, maybe it was from you. Next question - you mentioned wood dowels keeping the rudder down - did you or a PO make this modification? The stock rudder was made to automatically pop up if it hits something, although there are many posts in the archives about it "popping up" when it shouldn't. Maybe the dowels were installed to prevent this - could that somehow be related to the breakdown? Did the rudder pop up with the dowels shearing off when the tiller failed? Is this why you went overboard - to force the rudder back down after having lost the line, pulley and cleat that usually holds it? Where exactly did it break? Did it actually snap along its length somewhere or did it fail where it bolts to the rudder, or somewhere else? Could you give us a picture perhaps? It's hard for me to imagine enought force from weather or lee helm to make it snap, although I'll say at 20 degrees heel, my H23 exhibits significant weather helm and rounds up. My tiller is original and not in good shape, but weather helm would rip it out of my hands or fling me to the other side of the boat long before it would snap off. Not trying to badger you - just a lot of new H23 folks hanging out here and I'm sure we'd all like a few more specifics. Thanks - Mike
Hi Frank - did this happen on an H23 or 23.5? I'm asking because you referenced water ballast. I vaguely remember somebody asking about portable jugs/bladders being used for ballast on the H23, maybe it was from you. Next question - you mentioned wood dowels keeping the rudder down - did you or a PO make this modification? The stock rudder was made to automatically pop up if it hits something, although there are many posts in the archives about it "popping up" when it shouldn't. Maybe the dowels were installed to prevent this - could that somehow be related to the breakdown? Did the rudder pop up with the dowels shearing off when the tiller failed? Is this why you went overboard - to force the rudder back down after having lost the line, pulley and cleat that usually holds it? Where exactly did it break? Did it actually snap along its length somewhere or did it fail where it bolts to the rudder, or somewhere else? Could you give us a picture perhaps? It's hard for me to imagine enought force from weather or lee helm to make it snap, although I'll say at 20 degrees heel, my H23 exhibits significant weather helm and rounds up. My tiller is original and not in good shape, but weather helm would rip it out of my hands or fling me to the other side of the boat long before it would snap off. Not trying to badger you - just a lot of new H23 folks hanging out here and I'm sure we'd all like a few more specifics. Thanks - Mike
Bracket welds...
Hey Spinfisher... While you are at it, check the welds on the aluminum bracket holding your rudder & tiller. My H23 was handling weird on a breezy day last summer and SNAP, a weld seperated along the edge of the bracket. Sounded like a rifle shot. I'm amazed to hear you broke the tiller. That's a pretty hefty piece of laminated ash and mahogany!
Hey Spinfisher... While you are at it, check the welds on the aluminum bracket holding your rudder & tiller. My H23 was handling weird on a breezy day last summer and SNAP, a weld seperated along the edge of the bracket. Sounded like a rifle shot. I'm amazed to hear you broke the tiller. That's a pretty hefty piece of laminated ash and mahogany!
Mike, I think i hit the bottom of the lake
Mike, I am still very puzzled about the tiller breaking. Yes, the rudder was drilled through so that a piece of wooden dowel could be inserted to keep it in the down position. This was done by the previous owner at the recomendation of someone in our area who helped him rig it up. The line that holds the tiller down and the cleat are not dependable. I keep two or three extra dowels, cut to the right size so that when I hit bottom, I can turn around and replace the dowel. It only cost cents per piece... Yes, it is a H23.. The water that I removed from down under, around the stringers were on portable water jugs, they were positioned by the stringers under the cushions (very clean and dry down there after 31 days in the water).. I took the water jugs/ballast out so as to make the boat faster and feel what she it is like "naked". I also emptied the potable water jug... Yes, that was me exposing the question about the water ballast to the Forum. I spoke to the prior owner after posting and he talked me over some other things that I have discovered and "felt" in the boat. It is a great boat! Mike, I went back out on the lake on a jet ski this morning and kind-off circled the area where the tiller broke and am almost certain that the rudder must have hit the bottom of the lake. It was like three feet deep where I remembered it breaking. Everything else is fine, except the mast light wjich has some loose contacts. I will take a picture of the broken tiller and post later tonight. The broken tiller will be added to our collection of propellers that have fallen to oysters, sand and submerged keys. Question: do you think that when boaters die they will be shown a picture of all the sunglasses, lighters, hats, shirts, propellers, tillers and tackle that have been claimed by or fallen in the water? I will like to see that picture..... Make it a great day!
Mike, I am still very puzzled about the tiller breaking. Yes, the rudder was drilled through so that a piece of wooden dowel could be inserted to keep it in the down position. This was done by the previous owner at the recomendation of someone in our area who helped him rig it up. The line that holds the tiller down and the cleat are not dependable. I keep two or three extra dowels, cut to the right size so that when I hit bottom, I can turn around and replace the dowel. It only cost cents per piece... Yes, it is a H23.. The water that I removed from down under, around the stringers were on portable water jugs, they were positioned by the stringers under the cushions (very clean and dry down there after 31 days in the water).. I took the water jugs/ballast out so as to make the boat faster and feel what she it is like "naked". I also emptied the potable water jug... Yes, that was me exposing the question about the water ballast to the Forum. I spoke to the prior owner after posting and he talked me over some other things that I have discovered and "felt" in the boat. It is a great boat! Mike, I went back out on the lake on a jet ski this morning and kind-off circled the area where the tiller broke and am almost certain that the rudder must have hit the bottom of the lake. It was like three feet deep where I remembered it breaking. Everything else is fine, except the mast light wjich has some loose contacts. I will take a picture of the broken tiller and post later tonight. The broken tiller will be added to our collection of propellers that have fallen to oysters, sand and submerged keys. Question: do you think that when boaters die they will be shown a picture of all the sunglasses, lighters, hats, shirts, propellers, tillers and tackle that have been claimed by or fallen in the water? I will like to see that picture..... Make it a great day!
Thanks Frank
Looking forward to seeing a picture. I wonder even more if hitting the bottom with the dowel in was a contributing factor. In other words, might the tiller have survived the stress if the rudder popped up first. I replaced the cleat that holds the line holding the rudder down, but used the same size hardware. More of a maintenance thing as opposed to an upgrade. I toyed with wrapping a bungee around the lower part of the rudder and hooking it to the lower pintle to accomplish the same thing as the dowel. However, I got concerned I was putting too much tension in and preventing the rudder from popping free when it hits bottom. Anyway, the rudder never did pop up unexpectedly this year even in some fairly rough conditions on Lake Erie. I suspect there is a lot of variation from boat to boat, especially after 20 years and some of these rudder systems are looser than others. Glad you and your crew came through this event unscathed. Your story is getting me to think about what I would do if my rudder/tiller failed.
Looking forward to seeing a picture. I wonder even more if hitting the bottom with the dowel in was a contributing factor. In other words, might the tiller have survived the stress if the rudder popped up first. I replaced the cleat that holds the line holding the rudder down, but used the same size hardware. More of a maintenance thing as opposed to an upgrade. I toyed with wrapping a bungee around the lower part of the rudder and hooking it to the lower pintle to accomplish the same thing as the dowel. However, I got concerned I was putting too much tension in and preventing the rudder from popping free when it hits bottom. Anyway, the rudder never did pop up unexpectedly this year even in some fairly rough conditions on Lake Erie. I suspect there is a lot of variation from boat to boat, especially after 20 years and some of these rudder systems are looser than others. Glad you and your crew came through this event unscathed. Your story is getting me to think about what I would do if my rudder/tiller failed.
I will carry a spare now
Mike, the Chandlery folks will mail me a new wood 45" tiller in the next 10 days.... I am still going to visit a T-Top Aluminum shop and have a 2 5/8"x 2 1/4" aluminum block made with a matching hole for the bolt that holds it to the rudder. Maybe with some teeth at the block so that one can lift the broken wood block and just snap the replacement in place to keep the boat on course. There is a lot of shallow water around here. The dowel has broken before and one can feel the bottom, this time I did not feel the bottom. I jump in the water, sat / pushed the rudder down with no resistance from any bottom.... The dowel is good;;; the line I can't get it to hold the rudder down. Pics later..
Mike, the Chandlery folks will mail me a new wood 45" tiller in the next 10 days.... I am still going to visit a T-Top Aluminum shop and have a 2 5/8"x 2 1/4" aluminum block made with a matching hole for the bolt that holds it to the rudder. Maybe with some teeth at the block so that one can lift the broken wood block and just snap the replacement in place to keep the boat on course. There is a lot of shallow water around here. The dowel has broken before and one can feel the bottom, this time I did not feel the bottom. I jump in the water, sat / pushed the rudder down with no resistance from any bottom.... The dowel is good;;; the line I can't get it to hold the rudder down. Pics later..
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