Broken Swing Keel '75 Oday 20 repair? Fatal flaw?

Mar 16, 2015
7
Oday 20 Newport
  • Loading onto the trailer in rough sea conditions the boat was bouncing in 1+ foot seas hitting the stern...
  • The previous owner had broken the line to lift and cleat the swing keel and glassed over the bilge to minimize leaks...
  • Is there any diagram anywhere to show me what is required to ACCESS and REMOVE the remaining portion of the swing keel still attached to the pivot?
  • The keel snapped at approximately 3/4's of the length when I imagine it hit bottom as we were loading the boat.
  • I have the broken segment in fair condition...and believe it can be re-glassed and re-joined to the 1/4 segment still lodged in the keel...if it can be removed.
  • Yes, I realized huge labor costs and repair, but without the swing keel...the boat maybe of no use to me or any future owner...
  • I'm willing to cut away any portion of the hull or keel to attempt the repair...but need a diagram and any advice you can offer...

Thanks to the members of this forum for your amazing help and support!

 

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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
That looks like a swing centerboard, luckily much lighter than a keel. It is probably held by two plates bolted up from the bottom near the forward end of the centerboard trunk. Those plates hold the pin up.

Jack the boat up and look under the trunk. There will probably be a plate on either side of the forward end. Each plate will probably have two screws. Looks like the pin may be in tact, as you broke the centerboard below the pin.

You can glass a new centerboard. You might even be able to buy one from a used-parts yard or a rudder manufacturer..

I don't think I would try to repair that one, but if you wanted to, I would try to mend the two halves. Maybe through-bolt a plate on either side that covers the break and about 50% of the remaining top and bottom pieces. I wouldn't feel great about it though.

Thanks,

Andrew
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,952
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
D&R Marine has new Centerboards for sale, www.drmarine.com Rudy Nickerson at D&R was the Part's Dept Manager at O'DAY from 1973 to 1989 and now runs a little shop making and selling parts for our O'DAYs. He should also have the specs on the original pendant setup (lifting line for CB) so that you can restore the ability to Raise/lower the CB again. I would not want to not have that ability, if for no other reason than to prevent exactly what happened to your boat.

I think the 1975 models used what was to become the "standard" for later O'DAY K/CB designs as far as pivot pin mounting. See drawing below. Older models of the 20 had a different setup using a plastic pin inserted through one side of the keel.

I'd either buy a new CB ($$$ unfortunately) or build a new one based on the original, using epoxy and fiberglass covered marine plywood. Structural foam coring (Airex, Dyvinacel, etc) could be used instead of plywood and would be less prone to rot. foam will require a little more ballast weight to allow the CB to sink as it is lowered, but should still weigh about same as original CB.

Now for a few Definitions for all of us:
SWING KEEL: basically a swing centerboard that contains all or most of the total ballast of the boat. Will require a strong winch to raise and lower, and really should be locked down while sailing. Raising the Swing-keel will often cause the boat to trim down by the stern as the heavy weight of the keel is pivoted aft as it raises. Boat is usually tremendously less stable with keel raised. as the center of gravity has also been raised closer to the center of buoyancy. This is a great way to have a deep-fin-keel boat, yet easily trailer the boat by simply raising the keel. However, they are not really designed to be sailed with the keel in any position except fully down and locked.
CENTERBOARD: A lightweight (O'DAY 20 CB is around 30-40#) adjustable fin that can be retracted into the hull or a shallow keel to reduce draft. When lowered it improves ability to steer the boat and to prevent leeway while sailing to windward or across the wind. Adusting it's position up and down (on pivot) allow one to fine-tune the balance of the helm by reducing weather-helm (tendency to turn into the wind) by raising the CB slightly, or reducing Lee Helm (tendency to turn away from the wind) by lowering the CB. When sailing off the wind or directly down wind, the CB can often be raised to reduce drag. Position of the CB has minimal effect on stability of the boat since it contains very little ballast.

O'DAY designed most of their boats as either Centerboard or Keel/Centerboard types. My DS II is a CEnterboard boat and the CB retracts completely into the hull for trailering as does the CB on the Widgeon, Javelin, Rhodes 19, Mariner, O'DAY 19, and a few older designs. The Mariner and O'DAY 19 were sort-of hybrids, more correctly called "ballasted Centerboard" boats. The Mariner had 200# of lead in the bilge and a 165# centerboard, still most of the ballast was in the boat, not the Cb so she is still a CENTERBOARD boat. The O'DAY 19 has 300# of lead In a shallow-skeg-keel (not really a true k/cb, but I would not argue with someone who called it a K/CB)
The O'DAY trailerable cruisers were mostly Keel/Centerboard designs. There was a shallow keel that contained all of the ballast in the boat ,and then a fiberglass centerboard was housed inside the keel to allow more resistance to leeway and better directional stability (ability to steer) when the CB is lowered, yet still have shallow draft with it raised and some directional control due to the keel. The 192, O'DAY 20, 22 (1979-83), 222, 23-1, 23-2, 25, and 26 were all K/CB models. All but the 23-2 had lead ballast contained within the fiberglass molded keel, the 23-1 had a cast-iron keel with a fiberglass CB.
O'DAY did build a few larger boats with the option of a K/CB, the 28, 30, and 32 had that option during at least part of their production runs. These boats may have winches to raise the CB due to the large size of the CB, but the Centerboard is still a centerboard and not a swing-keel due to it still being a very small part of the overall ballast weight. Again, stability would not change much between CB up and CB down.
 

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Last edited:
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Nice info there!

Speaking of the larger boats with Centerboards... My friend has an Oday 26... That centerboard is raised by pendant and no winch. It is about as heavy as I would want to try and lift with no mechanical means. I was surprised by how heavy it was. I doubt it could be raised if there was any lateral pressure on it. Ie. During sailing any point except DDW. I think he should lengthen the line and winch it with his primary on his 26.

Andrew
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,952
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
Well, my DS II has a CB that is supposed to weigh no more than 25# or about 1/2 the weight of the one on the 26. Sideways pressure prevents me from moving it unless I head up into the wind or if I'm sailing downwind (doesn't have to be dead downwind, as long as most sideways pressure is off). Any size CB boat will need to get that sideways pressure off in order to move the CB up or down. I'd be wary of trying to winch it while sailing..... could over-strain something and break the pendant or the attachment point.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Well, my DS II has a CB that is supposed to weigh no more than 25# or about 1/2 the weight of the one on the 26. Sideways pressure prevents me from moving it unless I head up into the wind or if I'm sailing downwind (doesn't have to be dead downwind, as long as most sideways pressure is off). Any size CB boat will need to get that sideways pressure off in order to move the CB up or down. I'd be wary of trying to winch it while sailing..... could over-strain something and break the pendant or the attachment point.
True... Never need to raise it while sailing anyway! I was just shocked how heavy it was as we motored out and deployed it prior to sailing. Much heavier than I would have expected.
 
Mar 16, 2015
7
Oday 20 Newport
"swing centerboard"! I stand corrected! Thanks to all who have offered suggestions and advice! The diagrams are particularly helpful! Sunbird22358 you have provided a lot of information and have me on the road to restoration now! I feel confident I can get/make repairs and not have to scrap this boat! I will take and post pics of the repairs as I complete the steps... I LOVE this FORUM!
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
I would say that we can further differentiate.

A centerboard that slides down into a trunk, such as on a Laser or Sunfish, is called a daggerboard.

On a boat with a ballasted keel that slides up and down in a trunk, I would call a "lifting keel." Boats with such a ballasted lifting keel are many of the Hake yachts like the current lineup of Seawards, the Hobie 20, West Wight Potter 19, and other higher performance keelboats such as a J70 or Left Coast Dart. Note that many lifting keel boats have the ballast in a torpedo shaped bulb at the bottom of the keel, making for more righting moment. Something with a bulb is often a higher aspect ratio foil, in the case of sport boats like the J70 and Left Coast Dart.
 

rs8684

.
Jul 6, 2011
32
Oday 23 Lake Nockamixon
D&R Marine has new Centerboards for sale, www.drmarine.com Rudy Nickerson at D&R was the Part's Dept Manager at O'DAY from 1973 to 1989 and now runs a little shop making and selling parts for our O'DAYs. He should also have the specs on the original pendant setup (lifting line for CB) so that you can restore the ability to Raise/lower the CB again. I would not want to not have that ability, if for no other reason than to prevent exactly what happened to your boat.

I think the 1975 models used what was to become the "standard" for later O'DAY K/CB designs as far as pivot pin mounting. See drawing below. Older models of the 20 had a different setup using a plastic pin inserted through one side of the keel.

I'd either buy a new CB ($$$ unfortunately) or build a new one based on the original, using epoxy and fiberglass covered marine plywood. Structural foam coring (Airex, Dyvinacel, etc) could be used instead of plywood and would be less prone to rot. foam will require a little more ballast weight to allow the CB to sink as it is lowered, but should still weigh about same as original CB.

Now for a few Definitions for all of us:
SWING KEEL: basically a swing centerboard that contains all or most of the total ballast of the boat. Will require a strong winch to raise and lower, and really should be locked down while sailing. Raising the Swing-keel will often cause the boat to trim down by the stern as the heavy weight of the keel is pivoted aft as it raises. Boat is usually tremendously less stable with keel raised. as the center of gravity has also been raised closer to the center of buoyancy. This is a great way to have a deep-fin-keel boat, yet easily trailer the boat by simply raising the keel. However, they are not really designed to be sailed with the keel in any position except fully down and locked.
CENTERBOARD: A lightweight (O'DAY 20 CB is around 30-40#) adjustable fin that can be retracted into the hull or a shallow keel to reduce draft. When lowered it improves ability to steer the boat and to prevent leeway while sailing to windward or across the wind. Adusting it's position up and down (on pivot) allow one to fine-tune the balance of the helm by reducing weather-helm (tendency to turn into the wind) by raising the CB slightly, or reducing Lee Helm (tendency to turn away from the wind) by lowering the CB. When sailing off the wind or directly down wind, the CB can often be raised to reduce drag. Position of the CB has minimal effect on stability of the boat since it contains very little ballast.

O'DAY designed most of their boats as either Centerboard or Keel/Centerboard types. My DS II is a CEnterboard boat and the CB retracts completely into the hull for trailering as does the CB on the Widgeon, Javelin, Rhodes 19, Mariner, O'DAY 19, and a few older designs. The Mariner and O'DAY 19 were sort-of hybrids, more correctly called "ballasted Centerboard" boats. The Mariner had 200# of lead in the bilge and a 165# centerboard, still most of the ballast was in the boat, not the Cb so she is still a CENTERBOARD boat. The O'DAY 19 has 300# of lead In a shallow-skeg-keel (not really a true k/cb, but I would not argue with someone who called it a K/CB)
The O'DAY trailerable cruisers were mostly Keel/Centerboard designs. There was a shallow keel that contained all of the ballast in the boat ,and then a fiberglass centerboard was housed inside the keel to allow more resistance to leeway and better directional stability (ability to steer) when the CB is lowered, yet still have shallow draft with it raised and some directional control due to the keel. The 192, O'DAY 20, 22 (1979-83), 222, 23-1, 23-2, 25, and 26 were all K/CB models. All but the 23-2 had lead ballast contained within the fiberglass molded keel, the 23-1 had a cast-iron keel with a fiberglass CB.
O'DAY did build a few larger boats with the option of a K/CB, the 28, 30, and 32 had that option during at least part of their production runs. These boats may have winches to raise the CB due to the large size of the CB, but the Centerboard is still a centerboard and not a swing-keel due to it still being a very small part of the overall ballast weight. Again, stability would not change much between CB up and CB down.
As an owner of a 23-2, I am curious as to what my boat doesn't have, b c I know there is a fiberglass centerboard that retracts into a ballasted keel slot?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Is that broken on two places? It will of course be possible to make it one piece again, but I'd be worried about it ever having the same strength and the required resistance to loading. D&R sells a new one for $550 + packing+ship? That's the deal of the century.
 
Mar 16, 2015
7
Oday 20 Newport
Thanks JackDaw! Yes, 2 places... Today, trying to see if I can chisel out old paint/epoxy layer that I assume is covering the "retainer plates" and screws in the keel which holds the pivot in place. If I can access the plates and screws, I am wondering if the "wedges" are epoxied into place? Again, tricky business trying to remove these. If successful removing, then I will attempt to rejoin the 2 pieces of the broken "center board" after removing several layers of fiberglass. I plan to attempt to rejoin the pieces with "stainless steel" rods, bolts and screws...then re-glass the pieces. To give lateral strength, I was going to use several old battens I have see if I can route a channel into the glass and epoxy those in? AGAIN, thanks for ALL the advice and TIPS in this forum! I will be posting pics with updates of the repair process.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Thanks JackDaw! Yes, 2 places... Today, trying to see if I can chisel out old paint/epoxy layer that I assume is covering the "retainer plates" and screws in the keel which holds the pivot in place. If I can access the plates and screws, I am wondering if the "wedges" are epoxied into place? Again, tricky business trying to remove these. If successful removing, then I will attempt to rejoin the 2 pieces of the broken "center board" after removing several layers of fiberglass. I plan to attempt to rejoin the pieces with "stainless steel" rods, bolts and screws...then re-glass the pieces. To give lateral strength, I was going to use several old battens I have see if I can route a channel into the glass and epoxy those in? AGAIN, thanks for ALL the advice and TIPS in this forum! I will be posting pics with updates of the repair process.
No just the plates normally tricky to get out. The wedges are lightly tolerance-fit into place and are designed to come out. Made of delrin, they are pretty much impervious to environmental effects and will fall out under the weight of the remainder of the centerboard.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
I read that people replacing the wedges often glue them in with some 3M 4000 or 4200. If this is true, you may need to push a thin putty knife blade between the wedge and the centerboard trunk sides to cut them out.

I think there are plenty of posts on removing and replacing the pivot and wedges if you do a search. I'm sure I've seen pictures of the process, probably from old Joe Alvez's photo album. Look for posts from Trinkka to get to his profile and photos.

I'd love to check mine, but I haven't figured out if I can make a boat lift attached to my garage somehow :D



No just the plates normally tricky to get out. The wedges are lightly tolerance-fit into place and are designed to come out. Made of delrin, they are pretty much impervious to environmental effects and will fall out under the weight of the remainder of the centerboard.
 
Mar 16, 2015
7
Oday 20 Newport
Removing retainer plates & broken centerboard - photos

D&R Marine has new Centerboards for sale, www.drmarine.com Rudy Nickerson at D&R was the Part's Dept Manager at O'DAY from 1973 to 1989 and now runs a little shop making and selling parts for our O'DAYs. He should also have the specs on the original pendant setup (lifting line for CB) so that you can restore the ability to Raise/lower the CB again. I would not want to not have that ability, if for no other reason than to prevent exactly what happened to your boat.

I think the 1975 models used what was to become the "standard" for later O'DAY K/CB designs as far as pivot pin mounting. See drawing below. Older models of the 20 had a different setup using a plastic pin inserted through one side of the keel.

I'd either buy a new CB ($$$ unfortunately) or build a new one based on the original, using epoxy and fiberglass covered marine plywood. Structural foam coring (Airex, Dyvinacel, etc) could be used instead of plywood and would be less prone to rot. foam will require a little more ballast weight to allow the CB to sink as it is lowered, but should still weigh about same as original CB.

Now for a few Definitions for all of us:
SWING KEEL: basically a swing centerboard that contains all or most of the total ballast of the boat. Will require a strong winch to raise and lower, and really should be locked down while sailing. Raising the Swing-keel will often cause the boat to trim down by the stern as the heavy weight of the keel is pivoted aft as it raises. Boat is usually tremendously less stable with keel raised. as the center of gravity has also been raised closer to the center of buoyancy. This is a great way to have a deep-fin-keel boat, yet easily trailer the boat by simply raising the keel. However, they are not really designed to be sailed with the keel in any position except fully down and locked.
CENTERBOARD: A lightweight (O'DAY 20 CB is around 30-40#) adjustable fin that can be retracted into the hull or a shallow keel to reduce draft. When lowered it improves ability to steer the boat and to prevent leeway while sailing to windward or across the wind. Adusting it's position up and down (on pivot) allow one to fine-tune the balance of the helm by reducing weather-helm (tendency to turn into the wind) by raising the CB slightly, or reducing Lee Helm (tendency to turn away from the wind) by lowering the CB. When sailing off the wind or directly down wind, the CB can often be raised to reduce drag. Position of the CB has minimal effect on stability of the boat since it contains very little ballast.

O'DAY designed most of their boats as either Centerboard or Keel/Centerboard types. My DS II is a CEnterboard boat and the CB retracts completely into the hull for trailering as does the CB on the Widgeon, Javelin, Rhodes 19, Mariner, O'DAY 19, and a few older designs. The Mariner and O'DAY 19 were sort-of hybrids, more correctly called "ballasted Centerboard" boats. The Mariner had 200# of lead in the bilge and a 165# centerboard, still most of the ballast was in the boat, not the Cb so she is still a CENTERBOARD boat. The O'DAY 19 has 300# of lead In a shallow-skeg-keel (not really a true k/cb, but I would not argue with someone who called it a K/CB)
The O'DAY trailerable cruisers were mostly Keel/Centerboard designs. There was a shallow keel that contained all of the ballast in the boat ,and then a fiberglass centerboard was housed inside the keel to allow more resistance to leeway and better directional stability (ability to steer) when the CB is lowered, yet still have shallow draft with it raised and some directional control due to the keel. The 192, O'DAY 20, 22 (1979-83), 222, 23-1, 23-2, 25, and 26 were all K/CB models. All but the 23-2 had lead ballast contained within the fiberglass molded keel, the 23-1 had a cast-iron keel with a fiberglass CB.
O'DAY did build a few larger boats with the option of a K/CB, the 28, 30, and 32 had that option during at least part of their production runs. These boats may have winches to raise the CB due to the large size of the CB, but the Centerboard is still a centerboard and not a swing-keel due to it still being a very small part of the overall ballast weight. Again, stability would not change much between CB up and CB down.
Without your diagram and pictures this never would have been possible! I used jack stands to lift the boat on the trailer and place the BOW on (2) 4 x 4 beams supported by 4 cinderblocks. With jackstands under the stern, I was able to slide the boat BACKWARDS on the trailer to get full access to the keel and centerboard.

I then raised the stern about 5 feet to get maximum exposure to easily access the retainer plates holding the centerboard in place. Using a small chisel and hammer, I removed a layer of epoxy or possibly "MarineTex" which had covered the plates. Once the plates were exposed, I was able to UNSCREW the 3 stainless wood screws holding them in place.

I was surprised to find all one piece stainless retainer plates (plus wedge and pivot) holding the centerboard in place. ***See pictures - Now on to seeing if repair of the centerboard is possible...
 

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Jun 2, 2004
1,952
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
As an owner of a 23-2, I am curious as to what my boat doesn't have, b c I know there is a fiberglass centerboard that retracts into a ballasted keel slot?
OOPS! I meant to type "all except the 23-1". The 23-2 and all the other O'DAY K/CB models have the keel and CB trunk molded as part of the hull with lead ingots placed down low in the keel cavity then secured with thickened resin and glassed over.

The 23-1 had a Cast-Iron keel with the CB slot open, the keel fit into a recess in the bottom of the boat where it was secured by bolts. CB was still fiberglass with about 15# of lead flashing inside to allow it to lower (basically same as later 23 CB) This keel (23-1) was famous for rusting and thus jamming the CB slot.

Sorry about this typo!
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,952
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
Without your diagram and pictures this never would have been possible!

I was surprised to find all one piece stainless retainer plates (plus wedge and pivot) holding the centerboard in place. ***See pictures - Now on to seeing if repair of the centerboard is possible...
AHA! Now I know what all the manuals are talking about when they mentioned "a Stainless-steel CB hanger assembly"!! That setup pre-dates the SS plates/wedges/pin version. I'd like to thank you for YOUR pictures as well, as now I better understand what didn't make sense before! I'll save those pics for future reference, THANKS!