Broken CB line on O'day 19

[Mike19]

I bought an abused 1980 O'Day 19 last fall, and finally got her in the water this summer. Like most FG boats she was structurally sound, just needed some TLC and a new main. What a great sailing boat! Incredibly stable for only 1400 lbs. Huge cockpit, lots of room for 4 - 6.

Anyhow - my last sail of the season (Leaving the boat in MN for the year.) the line that pulls the CB up, stripped. It actually didn't quite break, but the outer cover of the line stripped off, leaving only the core. The CB isn't very heavy - 150lbs I think. I was able to inspect it in the water and could see that the line was glassed into the CB, not drilled through and attached with a fitting. So I can't just cut the line and attach a new one at the same point. I do not have easy access to lift the boat and drop the CB to get the attachment point. And re-doing it the way it is would be a pain. The old line would have to be cut out of the CB, and a new line glassed in.

So, the question is - does anyone know how wide the CB trunk is at the TOP of the trunk. And how wide is the CB? How much room on either side is there? It's about 1 3/4" at the bottom, but I couldn't really see how far it narrowed. Or if there is any room to drill a hole in the top and attach some kind of fitting to run a new line, which could be done in the water with a hand drill and a long snorkel. Or even just a bowline.

There are virtually no sailboat services where the boat is in MN. (Near Detroit Lakes.) And I only paid $500 for it, and will only use it 2 weeks a year, so I don't want to spend a pile of money fixing it.

Any help or insight would be most appreciated!

 

[Sunbird22358]

I'm not so sure that the CB pendant is really "glassed-in" to the CB, or at least I don't think it came from hte factory that way.
I am basing this answer on the CB setup on my 1979 DS II, and on that boat it is the line that pulls the CB down that is "buried" in the CB.
If you could lower the Cb enough to get access to the point on hte Cb where the pendant enters the top, you should look on one side of the CB (not sure which?) for a round "patch" or filler, you will need to sand of any paint to see it but I think you should see at least a shadow of the spot through the paint. Chip that filler out with a small chisel and you should find a knot in hte CB pendant, pull it out and cut it off. The CB pendant should now come free and can be repalced. No reall need to replace the filler, I've left mine that way for 16 years now. Now, again, I may not be correct on this CB pendant attachement, so I'd advise a call to Rudy at D&R Marine to ask him how the 19 CB pendant is attached, Rudy was the Parts Dept. Manager at O'DAY from 1973-89 and now runs a little shop supplying O'DAY parts. A fellow O'DAY 19 owner may also know better than me about the exact way the pendant is attached.

BTW: I think the CB trunk is pretty close to being just slightly wider than hte Cb is thick. I've included a few pics of the CB trunk, forward end, as well as a pic of an O 19 on a trailer designed for a keel boat, allowing hte Cb to hang down..... not sure if that will show anything. Finally, a drawing of my CB (DS II), unfortunately, I don't have a pic of the hole where the downline attaches... I'l lhave to take a picture the next time that I have the CB out for inspection (maybe next Fall?).

 

[Mike19]

Sunbird: You may be right about the way the pendant attaches. When I saw the board down, it was in the water, and I didn't stick my head right up to where the line attaches to the CB. There definitely looked like a plug like you describe, about 2" across, so it's possible the line goes into some kind of slot and attaches inside the CB. There may be more there than it appeared, 'cause it just looked like it was fiber glassed in. (And not a factory job.) Your DS looks to have two lines, (One to lift it and one to hold in the down position.)whereas mine only has one. Gravity pulls it down. I actually used to own a DSII, but I don't remember how that all worked.

Thanks for you insight and help. Bad news is - I have to wait 11 months to try anything, but I wanted to ask the question while it was fresh in my mind. What I really need is a lake hoist for the boat, but that will cost 5X what the boat did!

 

[jepomer]

Sunbird's photos are similar to the O'Day 19.

The Centerboard Pendant is a 5/16" diameter line is spliced to a special stainless steel tapered shackle with clevis pin (www.drmarine.com/prodimages/dr80-01.jpg).

The centerboard can be easily removed from outside on the bottom of the keel by removing 4 bolts that hold the 2 Centerboard Plates (www.drmarine.com/prodimages/dr115.jpg). These bolts may need some "encouraging" to come out, but mine were not all that difficult to remove.

These plates hold Centerboard Wedges and the centerboard pin (www.drmarine.com/prodimages/dr80-02.jpg) in place.

The centerboard weighs closer to 50 lbs than 150 lbs. I carried it myself but did use some bracing when lifting it back up into the centerboard trunk.

Once the front portion of the centerboard is lowered, you can access the attachment. Attach the new pendant to the old pendant with electrical tape then pull it through.

Inside the cabin, you can see the pendant chase. It consists of fiberglass on the trunk side, flexible hose, then passes through the cockpit. This chase does not give you access to the pendant attachment point.

 

[Mike19]

Wow - I am so glad I came here for information! And I appreciate the links to the DR Marine folks. Thanks again!

I am going to try and do this without a crane or any way to raise the boat high enough on land, so the suggestions about removing the whole thing are probably not an option for me. However, your info tells me that I just really need to get a new pendant, drop the board while in the water, and I should be able to cut out the old one and attach the new one with a few deep breaths. Then pull it through the hole and - voila!

 

[jepomer]

Wow - I am so glad I came here for information! And I appreciate the links to the DR Marine folks. Thanks again!

I am going to try and do this without a crane or any way to raise the boat high enough on land, so the suggestions about removing the whole thing are probably not an option for me. However, your info tells me that I just really need to get a new pendant, drop the board while in the water, and I should be able to cut out the old one and attach the new one with a few deep breaths. Then pull it through the hole and - voila!

Before trying to remove the bolts for the plates in the water, make sure you practice on the trailer.

Depending on the trailer design, you should be able to remove the centerboard enough while it is on the trailer. There are several ways to lift the stern with blocks and a car jack. Once lifted, make sure you place blocks under the boat to support it.

 

[Joe11688]

You need to be very careful when you are trying to move the boat off the trailer in order to get at your centerboard. This picture album should give you some ideas on how to do it. Just take your time and get help from someone who is familiar with dealing with heavy weight.
http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/album.php?albumid=2691

Your centerboard pendant line isn't glassed into the board. The only boats I know of that had a glassed in centerboard pendant line was the Quickstep which was built in Bristol RI many years back.

Your pendant line is probably enters a small hole in the trailing edge of your centerboard and is knotted behind a plastic plug on the side of the centerboard. The kick up rudder blade on my O'Day 222 is set up this way for the blade control line which keeps the blade from popping up until it accidently hits an underwater obstruction.

 

[Sunbird22358]

Actually all my pictures (except the drawing of the DS II CB) are an O'DAY 19 CB slot. Got them from an owner of a 19. 1982-85 DS II CB installs same way though.

 

[jepomer]

Actually all my pictures (except the drawing of the DS II CB) are an O'DAY 19 CB slot. Got them from an owner of a 19. 1982-85 DS II CB installs same way though.

No wonder your photos looked the same as my 19. I has been two years since I took the centerboard out.

Rereading specs from an older brochure, the centerboard weighs only 53 lbs.

 

[Mike19]

Before trying to remove the bolts for the plates in the water, make sure you practice on the trailer.

Depending on the trailer design, you should be able to remove the centerboard enough while it is on the trailer. There are several ways to lift the stern with blocks and a car jack. Once lifted, make sure you place blocks under the boat to support it.

So are you saying that I MUST remove the plates and pin to remove the pendant fitting? It seems like the fitting should be able to be removed with the pin in place.

 

[Mike19]

Trinkka - you offered this same set of photos when I asked about patching and painting the side of this boat as it was damaged after it blew off the trailer. (Twice - previous owner. Not my fault!) I got all excited and collected lumber for months. You obviously have access to 4 X 4's and larger that I don't have out in tree scarce Colorado. I never found any of those huge railroad ties or the like. Anyhow - when it came time to try the lift, it just didn't go well. I think it would take watching and doing it with someone else who's done it first. I gave up before I created more damage or dropped the thing on my head!

Thanks for your input - this has been great!

 

[Joe11688]

Mike,
You don't have to mess with the plates and wedges to replace your pendant line or shackle.

Railroad ties are much too heavy for blocks. If you have a local power company close by, they may have some old six pin cross arms that they take down from the poles. They usually just give them away. I've used cross arms in the past and continue to use them. Also, wherever new houses are being built, they throw away short pieces of 4x4s and 6x6s in their dumpster.
My son was working on a house and they had removed some landscape timbers to replace them with something new. All I had to do was use a sledge hammer to knock them apart from the long spikes. I brought about 15 of these timbers home and I use them quite a bit.
For lifting a small boat, sailboat stands work great. They aren't meant to be used for this purpose. I want to make this very clear, but I have lifted my friend Ray's O'Day 26 off his trailer with four of my Brownell Boatyard sailboat stands. The boat was fully loaded with the mast up at the club on the day that I raised it.

I've been taking my boat off the trailer and putting it on stands just about every year except last fall. I had surmised that I would probably have some health issues and decided on just jacking up the trailer with the boat on it and blocking under it for the winter. I'm glad now that I did that.

In getting a boat off the trailer and on to stands, the ideal scenario would be to have a long eye beam to support under the bow of the boat. Four sailboat stands, two on each side at the stern can lift the stern of the boat while supporting the boat from tipping over.

The bow is jacked up with a hydraulic jack under the bow, but a straight powerboat stand can also be placed under the bow as an added safety precaution. Wood blocks under the bow could be used also if you don't have a PB stand. The boat is raised with the jack and the stands and kept level at all times.

The long eye beam needs to be supported at each end and when the boat is high enough, the blocks are removed and the trailer can be slid out from under the boat.

When the trailer is out of the way, two of the stands, one on each side of the boat, can be removed and moved forward about 6 or 8' to support the boat.

I place blocks under the stern and the bow in a crisscross fashion to also act as a precaution.

The boat can be raised or lowered with the boat stands keeping the boat level at all times.
When you put the trailer back under the boat, if the trailer doesn't line up with the hull and keel, you can move the trailer from side to side with a speedy hydraulic jack on a plank. Jack the center of the trailer up just enough to allow you to move it by hand and let the steel wheels of the jack roll the trailer into position.

When the trailer is lined up so that the hull and the keel will line up with the bunks and the keel board, make sure that the trailer is level all the way around. Use wood planks under the wheels to get the trailer level. This is very important in lowering the boat down on to the trailer. Failure to do this could cause the hull to tip over if it comes in contact with just one of the bunks. The boat needs to lay evenly on the keel board and all the bunks at about the same time.
Like I mentioned previously, it's dangerous.

I don't have a long metal eye beam so I just jack up the bow of the boat and move the trailer little by little moving the jack and straight PB stand as I progress. It's kind of a slow process. The trailer will only move within the distance of the cross members and it involves letting the jack down and using blocks or my straight pb stand to hold the height of the boat while I position the jack near the back of the next trailer cross member. This is the way I do it. There is probably a better way but I'm too old and tired to experiment.
Joe

 

[jepomer]

So are you saying that I MUST remove the plates and pin to remove the pendant fitting? It seems like the fitting should be able to be removed with the pin in place.

Even if you lift your boat high enough, you may not beagle to rotate the centerboard enough to get to the shackle.

Removing the plates and wedges allows the front end to drop down. The pin is held up in place by the wedges.

The centerboard weighs only 53 lbs. if you have clear space under your trailer, you don't need to lift it much at all.

I would not do it underwater.

 

[Joe11688]

This may be true on the O'Day 19 John. I really don't know for sure, but you can remedy this situation by digging a hole under the keel. I do this quite a bit when I need to let the centerboard all the way down to spot paint it.

The plates on these boats are held in place by two 1/4" bolts for each plate and there is always one or two bolts that are stubborn. I had two that took me quite a while to remove without breaking them but you do run the risk of breaking them if you're not careful.

The wedges are held in place with adhesive caulking plus two wood screws that go through the plates. I used a fish fillet knife to separate the caulking by heating the blade with a torch. I wound up having to reconstruct two of the wedges with Fiberglas Epoxy and filler.
The rabbet groove needs to be cleaned out with a 1" putty knife with a heated blade in order for the fiber pin to slip down with the centerboard.
It may be worth the effort to check the condition of this pin. Mine was still in excellent condition but removing the centerboard allowed perfect access to the keel slot for painting it with bottom paint as well as the centerboard itself.

Chances are I'll never need to remove my centerboard again.

 

[jepomer]

Joe,

I took the centerboard out of my O'Day 19 two years ago. The bottom needed barrier proofing after a few rocky groundings when I first started sailing. The previous owner had moored the boat in the Hudson River and used an ablative antifouling paint which by then was very chalky. Since I would be trailer sailing this boat, I wanted to remove the antifouling and repair the few gouges.

Now I do have an advantage over most since I have a tractor that can lift more weight than the O'Day 19. Also I have an in-ground basketball system that is robust enough when in the lowered position to support the hanging weight of the transom. With the tractor lifting the bow, the trailer can be removed and appropriate safety blocking installed. This did give me unencumbered access. But the process is very similar to what you do with your boat - I just use an overhead transom lifting point and the tractor hydraulics to do the lifting work in just minutes rather than tens of minutes. I also lift my Capri 22 (2250 lbs plus whatever is inside) the same way.

I anticipated the plate bolts to be stubborn. Having worked on engines in the past, I do have bolt extractors. But to my surprise, the bolts loosened relatively easily. I tapped the screwdriver handle while applying torque. I don't think the bolts had been removed since leaving the factory.

The wedges came out easily. I don't remember needing to do anything special. I had a support under the centerboard so it would not drop out unexpectedly. It is not heavy - about 53 lbs. I did not replace the pendant at that time. It looked good so I left it. I don't remember how it actually attached. The photo on D&R Marine's web site shows a shackle. Other centerboards I seen have a simple pass through hole with a place for a recessed knot.

In any case, the idea of doing this repair while the boat is in the water is not really a practical one. I can't hold my breath that long.

It would be so much easier to do it in the driveway by:
• lower the trailer tongue fully
• place blocks/supports under transom
• lift trailer tongue fully
• place cross beam support under bow
• remove trailer (if needed)

It is amazing what one can do with simple mechanical levers and jacks!

 

[Joe11688]

Joe,

I took the centerboard out of my O'Day 19 two years ago. The bottom needed barrier proofing after a few rocky groundings when I first started sailing. The previous owner had moored the boat in the Hudson River and used an ablative antifouling paint which by then was very chalky. Since I would be trailer sailing this boat, I wanted to remove the antifouling and repair the few gouges.

Now I do have an advantage over most since I have a tractor that can lift more weight than the O'Day 19. Also I have an in-ground basketball system that is robust enough when in the lowered position to support the hanging weight of the transom. With the tractor lifting the bow, the trailer can be removed and appropriate safety blocking installed. This did give me unencumbered access. But the process is very similar to what you do with your boat - I just use an overhead transom lifting point and the tractor hydraulics to do the lifting work in just minutes rather than tens of minutes. I also lift my Capri 22 (2250 lbs plus whatever is inside) the same way.

I anticipated the plate bolts to be stubborn. Having worked on engines in the past, I do have bolt extractors. But to my surprise, the bolts loosened relatively easily. I tapped the screwdriver handle while applying torque. I don't think the bolts had been removed since leaving the factory.

The wedges came out easily. I don't remember needing to do anything special. I had a support under the centerboard so it would not drop out unexpectedly. It is not heavy - about 53 lbs. I did not replace the pendant at that time. It looked good so I left it. I don't remember how it actually attached. The photo on D&R Marine's web site shows a shackle. Other centerboards I seen have a simple pass through hole with a place for a recessed knot.

In any case, the idea of doing this repair while the boat is in the water is not really a practical one. I can't hold my breath that long.

It would be so much easier to do it in the driveway by:
• lower the trailer tongue fully
• place blocks/supports under transom
• lift trailer tongue fully
• place cross beam support under bow
• remove trailer (if needed)

It is amazing what one can do with simple mechanical levers and jacks!

One of the guys in my club was using the farm backhoe to raise the bow of his O'Day 25. He had built a pit so that he could let the centerboard down. I think he used blocks and boat stands under his stern to support the boat while he held it with the backhoe.

I had two stubborn plate bolts that I was trying to remove and I was using an impact driver which is hard to use as you need to hammer up on it while laying under the keel. I later found out that a Makita cordless impact drill with a Phillips bit in the chuck is the best tool for removing stubborn bolts and I recommend it highly.

This year I'm not up to the task of doing any boat maintenance and I plan on letting it slide till I start feeling better.
If you can get away without doing bottom paint I say go for it. I hate the stuff and I hate doing it. I'm too old to start trailering again.

Take care,

Joe