Broken Bolt
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An easier way to avoid..
An easier way to avoid the corrosive and galvanic issues of dissimilar metals with anti-seize products is to use Tef-Gel! This stuff is amazing! I agree 100% to never use copper never seize on a boat especially on stuff that is submersed. If every boater used Tef-Gel we'd have a lot less of those "The PO of my boat did!!!" types of horror stories.. ;D Tef-Gel http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546&familyName=Ultra+Tef-Gel
An easier way to avoid the corrosive and galvanic issues of dissimilar metals with anti-seize products is to use Tef-Gel! This stuff is amazing! I agree 100% to never use copper never seize on a boat especially on stuff that is submersed. If every boater used Tef-Gel we'd have a lot less of those "The PO of my boat did!!!" types of horror stories.. ;D Tef-Gel http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546&familyName=Ultra+Tef-Gel
Drilling
If you try to drill it out I would suggest getting left handed drill bits. Run the drill in reverse with the left handed drill bits. The friction of drilling left handed will try to back the screw out instead of in as a right handed drill bit would do.
If you try to drill it out I would suggest getting left handed drill bits. Run the drill in reverse with the left handed drill bits. The friction of drilling left handed will try to back the screw out instead of in as a right handed drill bit would do.
Tef-Gel and Pipe Dope are quite different
They are actually quite different! You should buy some and you'll see what I mean. Trust me I've spent countless hours working with teflon pipe dope and I can assure you I would never screw a stainless steel screw into my mast with pipe dope! Tef-Gel has a consistency like noting I've ever seen and it works! I've tried imitation or knock offs of Tef-Gel and they are not even in the same ball park.. C'mon Ross you should know by now that I won't waste money on stuff that does not really work when I can find a suitable auto parts store, electrical wholesaler or plumbing wholesaler alternative... There are a hand full of branded products that I find head and shoulders beyond other competitors and Tef-Gel is one.. Some others: IMAR Products - For Strata Glass and boat soap Awlcare - For Awlgrip finishes Tef-Gel Collinite #885 Paste Wax 303 Fabric Guard - For Sunbrella PB Blaster - penetrating oil Krano Kroil - penetrating oil Gore GFO Dripless Packing Gore Tenara thread - Lasts longer than Sunbrella I'm sure there are more that I just can't seem to think of..
They are actually quite different! You should buy some and you'll see what I mean. Trust me I've spent countless hours working with teflon pipe dope and I can assure you I would never screw a stainless steel screw into my mast with pipe dope! Tef-Gel has a consistency like noting I've ever seen and it works! I've tried imitation or knock offs of Tef-Gel and they are not even in the same ball park.. C'mon Ross you should know by now that I won't waste money on stuff that does not really work when I can find a suitable auto parts store, electrical wholesaler or plumbing wholesaler alternative... There are a hand full of branded products that I find head and shoulders beyond other competitors and Tef-Gel is one.. Some others: IMAR Products - For Strata Glass and boat soap Awlcare - For Awlgrip finishes Tef-Gel Collinite #885 Paste Wax 303 Fabric Guard - For Sunbrella PB Blaster - penetrating oil Krano Kroil - penetrating oil Gore GFO Dripless Packing Gore Tenara thread - Lasts longer than Sunbrella I'm sure there are more that I just can't seem to think of..
Grabit!
If you can keep trying to free up the rust/corrosion then try a Grabit. It is a $20 investment, but maybe it will work!
If you can keep trying to free up the rust/corrosion then try a Grabit. It is a $20 investment, but maybe it will work!
You really want to play the heat on the aluminum
to try to get it to expand. Ideally if you could keep the bolt cool that would be best but not feasible. The vice grips should act as a heat sink. I don't think you need to grind flat spots on the bolt. The vice grips should grab it without reducing material. I think grinding the bolt flat was in reference to the eventuality that you might need to drill it out. In which case a squared end will facilitate an accurately centered hole.
to try to get it to expand. Ideally if you could keep the bolt cool that would be best but not feasible. The vice grips should act as a heat sink. I don't think you need to grind flat spots on the bolt. The vice grips should grab it without reducing material. I think grinding the bolt flat was in reference to the eventuality that you might need to drill it out. In which case a squared end will facilitate an accurately centered hole.
First attempt not to successful
Well, I tried to remove the bolt today. It didn't go so well... I have been heating the bolt and surrounding area the last couple of nights and soaking with PB Blaster. Today I heated it up again, soaked with PB blaster, gave a couple of raps with a hammer and tried using vise grips, no luck. The vise grips were chewing up the bolt and slipping. I then cut a groove with a dremel tool, I used a decent screwdriver and it still wouldn't budge. It ended up cracking half of the piece sticking out the of bolt off. I'm going to head off to Sears to see if they have the reverse drill bits... Manny
Well, I tried to remove the bolt today. It didn't go so well... I have been heating the bolt and surrounding area the last couple of nights and soaking with PB Blaster. Today I heated it up again, soaked with PB blaster, gave a couple of raps with a hammer and tried using vise grips, no luck. The vise grips were chewing up the bolt and slipping. I then cut a groove with a dremel tool, I used a decent screwdriver and it still wouldn't budge. It ended up cracking half of the piece sticking out the of bolt off. I'm going to head off to Sears to see if they have the reverse drill bits... Manny
Heat the Aluminum
Manny rember heat the aluminum and not the bolt. You want the bolt to stay cold and small wile the aluminum hole will expand a bit.
Manny rember heat the aluminum and not the bolt. You want the bolt to stay cold and small wile the aluminum hole will expand a bit.
Hey Scott
I would heat the bolt first then spray, hoping the heat on the bolt would wick it up into the threads while cooling the bolt, then I would try and heat the outside, but I could only do so much, I am trying not to destroy the paint. I am actually surprised how long the paint can take heat. I'm starting to wonder if the bolt isn't stripped in there from a PO... Manny
I would heat the bolt first then spray, hoping the heat on the bolt would wick it up into the threads while cooling the bolt, then I would try and heat the outside, but I could only do so much, I am trying not to destroy the paint. I am actually surprised how long the paint can take heat. I'm starting to wonder if the bolt isn't stripped in there from a PO... Manny
For future reference...
I may be offering this advice a bit late now that you've broken the stub. But, for future reference, here is a reliable old trick that I learned many years ago. In the interlude between graduating from college and starting my post-graduate work I had to do a bit of work helping a steamfitter on the job I was working at. They were recycling old 3" steam pipe to use in fitting the "new" second-hand boiler and retorts being installed as part of an expansion. Breaking down the corroded joints was a bear of a job and as I was a big boy, the task fell to me. As I was struggling with the job, the old fitter taught me to first tighten the joint before attempting to loosen it. Heat and hammers were part of the process if that failed, but rarely did we have to resort to them and when we did, it was still in the tightening mode. I don't know what the physics of the technique are, but I suspect that the ramp effect of a threaded union must be more efficient in tightening a pipe/bolt than in loosening one. In most cases, you would put pressure on the wrench (with a big 'cheater' extension for leverage)and there would be a little sound like a creak or snap and then you would instantly feel the joint move as the corrosion broke free. Stop turning as soon as that occurs and the joint can be unscrewed with little difficulty. I have learned to my regret that you should try this FIRST. Often, the various efforts to unscrew you intuitively take seem to bind the metal worse. I now try to notice if there is corrosion and if so, tighten 1/4 turn first. While a bolt or pipe can be so corroded that this won't work, I have found that to be extremely rare when I remember to tighten first.
I may be offering this advice a bit late now that you've broken the stub. But, for future reference, here is a reliable old trick that I learned many years ago. In the interlude between graduating from college and starting my post-graduate work I had to do a bit of work helping a steamfitter on the job I was working at. They were recycling old 3" steam pipe to use in fitting the "new" second-hand boiler and retorts being installed as part of an expansion. Breaking down the corroded joints was a bear of a job and as I was a big boy, the task fell to me. As I was struggling with the job, the old fitter taught me to first tighten the joint before attempting to loosen it. Heat and hammers were part of the process if that failed, but rarely did we have to resort to them and when we did, it was still in the tightening mode. I don't know what the physics of the technique are, but I suspect that the ramp effect of a threaded union must be more efficient in tightening a pipe/bolt than in loosening one. In most cases, you would put pressure on the wrench (with a big 'cheater' extension for leverage)and there would be a little sound like a creak or snap and then you would instantly feel the joint move as the corrosion broke free. Stop turning as soon as that occurs and the joint can be unscrewed with little difficulty. I have learned to my regret that you should try this FIRST. Often, the various efforts to unscrew you intuitively take seem to bind the metal worse. I now try to notice if there is corrosion and if so, tighten 1/4 turn first. While a bolt or pipe can be so corroded that this won't work, I have found that to be extremely rare when I remember to tighten first.
Manny..
At this point I have two words for you that will save you LOTS of money.... Machine Shop!! It sounds like the treads were cross threaded or you have some serious galvanic and corrosion issues going on with that bolt. Perhaps the last time the impeller was changed they did not install the same grade bolt??
At this point I have two words for you that will save you LOTS of money.... Machine Shop!! It sounds like the treads were cross threaded or you have some serious galvanic and corrosion issues going on with that bolt. Perhaps the last time the impeller was changed they did not install the same grade bolt??
Second attempt not much better
Ran down to the local Sears to get a bolt extractor, ended up buying a kit since they didn't sell them separately. Got everything set up and started the drilling process with the extractor, followed the instructions to the letter but the drill portion wasn't cutting into the bolt. I grabbed a small drill bit figuring I could start a pilot hole and work my way up. Well the small drill bit broke. I went a little bigger and started making some progress. I was then able to finish the hole with the extractor. I flipped the extractor and tried to remove the bolt. It grabbed the bolt pretty well and it was giving my drill the workout of its life. I heard a pop and I got really excited, thinking I had it. Well I did, sort of. About a 1/4 in of the bolt came out with the extractor (about the same length as the hole). At least it was progress. I figured I'd drill some more and try again. I started drilling and the bit started skipping around, which was odd. Remember I said a drill bit broke? Well I found part of it was still in the bolt *cry. I then took a dremel and ground the bit enough that I could start drilling again. This time I drilled all the way through to the end of the bolt. I sprayed some pb blaster through that hole and chucked the extractor, drilled with it, and then switched ends and tried to pull another chunk out. Once again the extractor had a firm hold but nothing, the drill just didn't have enough torque. It would stop the drill and the lights would dim in the garage! Now I'm at a loss. I grabbed some channel locks and put them around the chuck. I start turning. The chuck slips around the extractor which creates an amazing spark! I tightened the chuck and try again with the channel locks. The extractor shatters in two! It took a long time to remove the extractor piece from the bolt. I finally gave up and drilled the bolt out. Tomorrow I'll go and get an appropriate size tap... At this point I get the feeling the bolt must have been stripped in there Chris - In my first attempt I did try tightening the bolt a little first. A friend told me about that a long time ago. A typical day in the life of Manny! Thanks again for all the suggestions.
Ran down to the local Sears to get a bolt extractor, ended up buying a kit since they didn't sell them separately. Got everything set up and started the drilling process with the extractor, followed the instructions to the letter but the drill portion wasn't cutting into the bolt. I grabbed a small drill bit figuring I could start a pilot hole and work my way up. Well the small drill bit broke. I went a little bigger and started making some progress. I was then able to finish the hole with the extractor. I flipped the extractor and tried to remove the bolt. It grabbed the bolt pretty well and it was giving my drill the workout of its life. I heard a pop and I got really excited, thinking I had it. Well I did, sort of. About a 1/4 in of the bolt came out with the extractor (about the same length as the hole). At least it was progress. I figured I'd drill some more and try again. I started drilling and the bit started skipping around, which was odd. Remember I said a drill bit broke? Well I found part of it was still in the bolt *cry. I then took a dremel and ground the bit enough that I could start drilling again. This time I drilled all the way through to the end of the bolt. I sprayed some pb blaster through that hole and chucked the extractor, drilled with it, and then switched ends and tried to pull another chunk out. Once again the extractor had a firm hold but nothing, the drill just didn't have enough torque. It would stop the drill and the lights would dim in the garage! Now I'm at a loss. I grabbed some channel locks and put them around the chuck. I start turning. The chuck slips around the extractor which creates an amazing spark! I tightened the chuck and try again with the channel locks. The extractor shatters in two! It took a long time to remove the extractor piece from the bolt. I finally gave up and drilled the bolt out. Tomorrow I'll go and get an appropriate size tap... At this point I get the feeling the bolt must have been stripped in there Chris - In my first attempt I did try tightening the bolt a little first. A friend told me about that a long time ago. A typical day in the life of Manny! Thanks again for all the suggestions.
Been there, feel for ya brother!
Manny, Sometimes you get the bear...sometimes the bear gets you! You will likely need a bottoming tap to use after the regular tap to get threads all the way down to the bottom of the hole in this repair. fair winds, cb
Manny, Sometimes you get the bear...sometimes the bear gets you! You will likely need a bottoming tap to use after the regular tap to get threads all the way down to the bottom of the hole in this repair. fair winds, cb
Yep, nothing like breaking off a high carbon
extractor in the bolt. You're lucky you could get the pieces out, I couldn't.
extractor in the bolt. You're lucky you could get the pieces out, I couldn't.
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