Broad reach! Pun intended!

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Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
I posted this here because I hope to catch the thoughts and expertise of former and present C22 owners and sailors.

1. The specs on this site say the swing keel is "steel". Does that mean cast steel or cast iron?

2. I have not seen any numbers for safe loading or gross cargo weights.
I don't give a flip about the coast guard or any other entity that rules over such things. I am just trying to get an idea of how much balanced weight you could carry.

Now to explain why I am asking. I hope to take an extended cruise in this boat, and be sure cruising offshore is really what I want to do.
I want to provision this boat with enough food and creature comforts to stay on the boat with very limited restocking for at least 30 days. By doing this I think with the limited space on this boat I will verify that a 30' boat would be big enough for a few years.

Thanks in advance.
And please stay on topic and I already know most of the pitfalls.

I just would like some numbers about pounds of distributed weight and how you got your conclusions.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
1. Probably rolled steel.
2. Get a quantity of five gallon buckets and fill them with water when they are uniformly distributed through out the boat as low as you can get them. Then check the water line with say twenty, five gallon pails of water on board. They will weigh about forty pounds each so you would have about eight hundred pounds on board.
Most dry food is about 2000 calories per pound and you need about a 1/2 gallon of drinking water per day.
Some food should be stored well above the waterline,( pasta, flour, salt, baking powder.) canned goods and water should be stowed as low as practical.
 
Jan 4, 2006
283
West Coast
Former C22 Owner Here

txtowman,

Exactly what do you mean by an "extended cruise"?

It makes a difference: how often you plan on taking on supplies. Water will be your biggest challenge in a little yacht of this size. If you can stop frequently to take on smaller quantities of water, you will be able to avoid carrying a lot of trim-affecting weight. Storing things for one person is not such a problem, if you can be a minimalist; storing weight in a C22 is a challenge.

I little more information about your plans will be helpful.

Fair Winds,
Jeff
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i presume you are sailing solo......and that you are young.....
i have just returned from an extended cruise on a 37 ft sloop---stashing 30 days worth of foods was not an easy task---there was barely enough room for the foods and our clothing and a few other things--and bubba----a 22 would be making many many stops along the way...and loaded down that much (see ross) there would be very low freeboard ----i amnot sure that extended cruise meant out of a lake or icw?? in smooth waters could be done---would have to be solo, as thee will be no room for anyone or anything else----wow----sounds like a cool trip tho---have fun! there are many places along the icw to reprovision--just need to get to the stores..some can be in walking distance or trolly or bus----some places ye need other transportation......i have only been within smallportion of the icw, but what i saw was awesome scenery and coolness---and protected waters for travel and anchoring. many things to do
 
Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
clarification. somewhat

O.K.

Yes, solo for now. 30 days on this boat is what I consider an extended cruise for a "weekender"
30# clothes
porta potti.
extra rudder and tiller 25#
27 gallons of water- 2 weeks worth if I am careful.
40 pound "hot water on demand" water heater/ kitchen faucett.
25# frig 1.7 cu. ft. 60 watts runs about 30% of the time during the day and off at night.
12 gallons of gas in 2 six gallon outboard tanks- maybe 2 weeks worth
5 gallon jerry can of gas 25#
1 gallon steel propane cylinder, single burner camp stove. 12#
honda eu2000i generator #50
234# batteries 260 amp hours--- would generator gas be lighter to carry than an extra battery?
3 cases of beer-- 2 a day for heart health.:)
I am still working on a menu, I like ravioli so that will be probably half of my food.
I am figuring 200 pounds for food.

minus the water and food and 1 battery all of these things are on the boat already and it sits with 2 inches of bootstripe above the waterline in the bow and 2 inches below the waterline in the stern with batteries and fuel and generator at the stern. I will be moving the batteries beforehand.

with me I am figuring 900 pounds of gear and provisions including the 6 hp outboard 2 stroke.

did I leave out anything obvious?

thanks for the help


I know the cabin will be packed, I sleep on the dinette so the v berth will be storage.

I am used to a 60 X 96 inch truck sleeper so I have decent small space storage skills.

I expect to be in sight of land most of if not all of the time, but this is an experiment to see if I really have the desire to go ashore often.

I have had my boat in a slip for 30 consecutive days but the lure of easy access made it hard to stay on the boat when I got bored.

I have been on the boat for 6 days and nights before and only used 7 gallons of water. But, that was probably because I did not do much cooking, and bathed in the lake.
 
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Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: clarification. somewhat

You need an extra tank for the porta pot. How can you consume seven pounds of food per day? A half pound of meat and a pound of fruit and veggies and 4 ounces of pasta or rice or a half pound of potatoes is plenty of food for a a 180 pound man.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
O.K.

Yes, solo for now. 30 days on this boat is what I consider an extended cruise for a "weekender"
30# clothes
porta potti.
extra rudder and tiller 25#
27 gallons of water- 2 weeks worth if I am careful.
40 pound "hot water on demand" water heater/ kitchen faucett.
25# frig 1.7 cu. ft. 60 watts runs about 30% of the time during the day and off at night.
12 gallons of gas in 2 six gallon outboard tanks- maybe 2 weeks worth
5 gallon jerry can of gas 25#
1 gallon steel propane cylinder, single burner camp stove. 12#
honda eu2000i generator #50
234# batteries 260 amp hours--- would generator gas be lighter to carry than an extra battery?
3 cases of beer-- 2 a day for heart health.:)
I am still working on a menu, I like ravioli so that will be probably half of my food.
I am figuring 200 pounds for food.

minus the water and food and 1 battery all of these things are on the boat already and it sits with 2 inches of bootstripe above the waterline in the bow and 2 inches below the waterline in the stern with batteries and fuel and generator at the stern. I will be moving the batteries beforehand.

with me I am figuring 900 pounds of gear and provisions including the 6 hp outboard 2 stroke.

did I leave out anything obvious?

thanks for the help


I know the cabin will be packed, I sleep on the dinette so the v berth will be storage.

I am used to a 60 X 96 inch truck sleeper so I have decent small space storage skills.

I expect to be in sight of land most of if not all of the time, but this is an experiment to see if I really have the desire to go ashore often.

I have had my boat in a slip for 30 consecutive days but the lure of easy access made it hard to stay on the boat when I got bored.

I have been on the boat for 6 days and nights before and only used 7 gallons of water. But, that was probably because I did not do much cooking, and bathed in the lake.
117# battry as opposed to 40# of gas for thr generator that would 78# less weight right there as for thr food use dehidrated as much as possible...and that will help about 50# or so...oh and no dog?????? you must have a dog everyone needs a best friend

regards

woody
 
Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
8 pound dog, I just haven't had the opportunity to train her to stay on the boat, she jumps out the window of my dooley while it's moving, I figger the same with the boat.

I use the double dooty bags like sumner does and try to keep the porta potti use to a minimum.

my weight numbers are high on purpose in case I have forgotten anything, or find a great deal on spagetti'os or spam by the case
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Start making a log of the food you eat. Kinds and quantity for each meal and for the day. Keep the log for a month.
Nancy and I eat exactly the same on the boat as we do at home. We were out last year for 10 days and had enough food to stay out another ten if we wanted to. If you like ravioli you will like Barilla brand tortellini. It is stuffed dried pasta that is table ready in ten minutes. Comes with about six different fillings.
 

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Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
An extra battery makes no sense in that boat compared to using the generator, because you're planning on a fridge. Diss the fridge and generator and use ice, you'll do just fine.

Never changing clothes for 30 days will save additional weight.

Seriously, I think you've got the ideas down, and anything we add will be details. Go for it.

Where, exactly, ARE you planning to go?

All the best.
 
Jan 4, 2006
283
West Coast
Vision Meets Implementation

That keel is cast iron, as I recall, about 600#.

The food, water and battery, that you say has not been taken aboard yet, when loaded on board, is another 500 pounds. You're already down by the stern pretty seriously. You're planning a trip for a 27' boat on a 22' boat. You have to make some compromises.

I totally understand the desire to be self-contained, but this is going to be a challenge on a C22. I admire the replacement rudder/tiller, but having lived/cruised a C22 for two weeks, I can't imagine a smaller living space than I had, and with all your provisions, you will barely have room to turn around.

Overall, I agree w/ Stu: use a cooler instead of the fridge, and leave the generator, its fuel and excess batteries behind. This means that your strategy will include stepping on shore every handful of days for ice. As long as you're going ashore, you don't have to provision for the whole month at once. This solves more weight/space issues, esp. water, which at 8.3lbs/gal., is a lot of weight to try to keep low and centered with that layout.

If you buy block ice, and use a 5-day cooler (strapped down just inside the companionway, and used as a companionway step), it will keep things cold in there 5–6 days, a week if you're not in there constantly. Stepping on shore once a week for food, ice and water still gives you plenty of solitude & self-reliance, lets you get excess weight off the yacht, and solves much of the trim problem that already exists before you're talking about taking on additional weight, i.e., five hundred pounds, the weight of three crewmen!

Without the energy-hungry fridge, 130 usable amp-hours (50% of a 260 a/h bank) will run your VHF and stereo & anchor light for a good while. You could keep the generator and now just use it every few days, and have to carry less gasoline, or rent a transient slip when you need to to take on your water and electricity (that's what they're made for: yachts in transit).

If you use a kerosene lamp lashed in your rigging for your anchor light, which is quite legal and adequate for a small yacht of this size, your battery bank will last much, much longer. That one bulb running for eight hours eats a lot of power. I used to rig mine to hang between the boom and the cabintop. 2/3 cup of kero per night for a month is 5 quarts.

The next piece of equipment to take a good hard look at is the water heater. Consider heating your water with the cooking stove for washing, or invest in a SolarShower (I use on on my 30-footer) or a little of both. That's 140 pounds of equipment and a lot of space saved.

One of the big problems here is that most of the easy storage on a C22 is astern. You can try to move some heavy items into the cabin and secure them to the small decksole, the footwell of the dinette (make sure you can still lower the table) or the starboard settee. That will help your trim issues in general, but those lashings must be bomb-proof, or you'll have things flying all over your cabin when you heel over hard. I know from experience.

The small shelf over the settee can be used for small gear, if the opening is laced in a zig-zag pattern with a long length of shock cord that runs around small, screw-in, open-eyed hooks screwed in about 4 inches apart. Build it as two or three separate sections, so you can un-do one piece without having to have the rest of it come apart.

The forepeak can't take much weight, or you'll be hobby-horsing in a swell (weight on the ends of the yacht). I'd reserve it for clothes (in water-proof bags: don't trust that hatch), bedding (safe from water) and light equipment and provisions, like paper towels, Zip-Loc bags (you'll find many uses for them) and spare parts that aren't too heavy. It's difficult to use it well.

Since you don't mind eating out of cans, you can shift a considerable amount of weight around, as long as you can ensure it is secured beyond a doubt. The beer bottles are a different story, but I'm sure you'll be creative. Again: stepping on land occasionally means you don't have to have three cases on board to begin with, and buying it cold at the store a block from the marina will help spare your ice.

Sounds like a great adventure, but I'm not sure camping out for a month in a C22 will give you much of an idea of what it's like to live on a 30-foot yacht. I had a wonderful time, though, and learned a lot about provisioning, self-reliance, securing equipment, and outboard motors, and have fond memories of the whole unbearable ordeal :)

Where exactly are you intending to go?

FAir Winds,
Jeff
 
Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
no longer the gulf

My plan was the fla. keys, guess thats a bust since my work has trickled to zip.
I am a handy guy but can't find the usual odd jobs to do, everyone is broke, or scared to spend what little they have with the economy the way it is. I will be forced to have a fire sale pretty soon if things don't turn around soon. I am barely paying my very minimal bills right now. And can't even afford the gas to go to a local lake right now. I don't know what's in store for this country be we are in deep trouble.

rant off!

The battery is paid for so it would be cheaper to operate?
I have a 40 amp charger that will bulk all three batteries pretty quick.
I typically use 60 to 70 amp hours a day. the extra battery would reduce gen time to every other day I think.
This is an experiment. If I can stay on this small very crowded boat for 1 month, I believe I could live on a 30' for a long time.
A big part of it is the isolation, which I don't think will be a problem, but you never know. I make jewelry and small wire statues and this time will help me hone my skills while I am parked somewhere.

I disagree about the cooler and ice. the frig weighs less than the cooler full of ice if I don't count the battery weight.
the third battery is not a necessity, but spending as little as possible is also a concern.

everything on the list is already paid for except for food and gas.

I can do this experiment here at home, but I am sure it would be interrupted by friends or family so I need to get away to do it.
 
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Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Hey Sid,
You should fish more and forget about eating all that canned food. Start eating fish everyday and you will live to be 120...pounds and maybe a 120 years old too. lol
If I lived on my boat without the responsibility of a job, I would fish everyday.
I remember you were fishing sometimes in the old marina.
I could live on my 30 footer for a while. I spend about half the week there and half the week at the shop. BUT I am in a slip and go to a coffee shop bright and early at noon when we wake up.
If I was single and not spending so much time trying to get rich, I would be on that boat going somewhere. If you get a descent net and hone your fishing skills you can learn to live off the sea. You won't need as much weight aboard, and it will give you something to do while you are out and about.
I would ditch that fridge personally. I have one of those little fridges. The extra batteries you would need and the weight and cost of fuel don't justify it in my mind. I know you already have the generator, but I would only run it an hour a day or so to keep up with the demands of lights, vhf and radio and whatever else you need. I have one of those 5 day coolers, and I think they are awesome. I wouldn't run my little fridge if I wasn't at the slip. Unless you could use it to make ice somehow, then transfer that over to the 5-day cooler. Is there a place on the ICW that you can leave your truck for 30 days with out a problem for free?
BTW I had the most awesome day sailing around today at Port A. Jeannette went below to take a nap so I single handed around within a few miles of the marina. I motored out to the end of the jetties but it was too rough for Jeannette to be having fun. She likes the smoothness of the ICW.
I have to be honest with you, I would stay in the ICW and not go outside unless it was really smooth. I may just be a puss but it is so much more fun sailing on the flat waters of the ICW especially with all the consistent wind we get down there.
 
Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
ice is very costly especially at a marina.

there are place at clearlake to park and I can use a friends back yard in corpus.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,219
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
I know they are expensive, but a small watermaker and a bunch of freeze dried food would save lots of room and weight.. Since you have the generator already, the additional power to drive a small watermaker wouldn't be that much of a problem..
sounds like a broad reach indeed, Sid..
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
The weight of the food one man needs for a month is not a big load. The beer supply will exceed the weight of the food if he eats properly. Very little food needs to be refridgerated. Potatoes and onions keep perfectly without as do eggs if they are turned everyday. Milk can be purchased in small ultra pastruized boxes. Meat can be canned in single serving jars as can pasta sauce. The beer will probably be the greatest demand on the refridgerator. Fresh corn on the cob will keep for a week in the husk and tomatoes and green peppers will last better at room temperature.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
what ross said as well as there is a powdered whole milk that is usable for coffee and mashed taters and other milk needing things--stores well and lasts a long time..is not nonfat--lol----and works great.....i live normally in boat with no refrigerator--isnt difficult----but in 20 ft there isnt much room for much of anything---hav to watch how many clothing items and foods and beers and everything----gooodluck and have fun.
ps--i neither use fridge nor ice--life is tastier at room temp---LOL...
 

druid

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Apr 22, 2009
837
Ontario 32 Pender Harbour
A few comments from someone who even lived aboard a Venture 22 for a few months:

- How much money do you have? The Waeco fridge (different name now...) is what you need. They cost about $800 and weigh about 30lb empty, but will run indefinitely on a 50W solar panel. Check them out!

- I had no problems "extended cruising" on the 22 when by myself. I'm not sure how much "extra" stuff I had aboard, but easily 500 lb or so. As others have said, fresh water will be your biggest problem.

- Porta-potti? Where will you empty it? You need to check the regulations for dumping sewage in the area you plan to cruise, and identify any pumpout stations.

Have fun!
druid
 
Jan 4, 2006
283
West Coast
tx,

First, will you be totally self-sufficient for the whole month, or will you be close enough to a couple of opportunities to re-provision during that 30-day period? ("The keys" can mean a few different things). Your big challenge is still distributing the weight of liquids: water @ 8.3lbs./gal, gasoline @ ~6.25lbs/gal, beer (3 cases of filled glass bottles has to be 45lbs. or close to it), if you are going to go off the grid for a month.

Then, tell us about the cockpit: do you have one, or two cockpit lockers, and do they have their own liners, or do they simply open up into the hull, like my old '74 did?

Still think the water heater is a heavy, space-filling luxury.

Jeff
 
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