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My experience
I have a ton of teak- probably literally - on my boat and it has been done with Bristol. This is my 3rd season with the boat and the stuff is now starting to break down here and there, but generally has held up well. I am learning how to feather in spots and have had pretty good results, except at a couple of spots where the finish bubbled up and came off in rubber like sheets. Bristol tell me that when that happens I need to go over the area with a 2 part tak cleaner. The instructions call for doing using a 2 part cleaner before applying. One nice thing about it is that you can put on as many coats as desired on the same day. It sets up fast so one can add a new coat, on a warm day, in about 30 minutes. No sanding is required unless you let it set for 12 hours.
I have a ton of teak- probably literally - on my boat and it has been done with Bristol. This is my 3rd season with the boat and the stuff is now starting to break down here and there, but generally has held up well. I am learning how to feather in spots and have had pretty good results, except at a couple of spots where the finish bubbled up and came off in rubber like sheets. Bristol tell me that when that happens I need to go over the area with a 2 part tak cleaner. The instructions call for doing using a 2 part cleaner before applying. One nice thing about it is that you can put on as many coats as desired on the same day. It sets up fast so one can add a new coat, on a warm day, in about 30 minutes. No sanding is required unless you let it set for 12 hours.
Yard manager likes it
Not for the cynical reason that it requires maintenance but that it goes on easy, recoats quickly and seems to last as well as tradional varnish or Cetol. He did caution me that it is particularly important to properly prepare the surface to avoid premature failure. I have seen some of the boats they used it on and it sure looks like varnish to me.
Not for the cynical reason that it requires maintenance but that it goes on easy, recoats quickly and seems to last as well as tradional varnish or Cetol. He did caution me that it is particularly important to properly prepare the surface to avoid premature failure. I have seen some of the boats they used it on and it sure looks like varnish to me.
Oh it looks great initially...
...but we have had 2 sets of friends use it and both say never again. They had the experience of it peeling off as well and re-prepping and re-doing it. It may hold up OK in northern climes...but in the bahamas/Caribe it did not. I'm a Cetol/cetol gloss user myself but I would rather go back to varnish rather than use the Bristol based on what I've seen.
...but we have had 2 sets of friends use it and both say never again. They had the experience of it peeling off as well and re-prepping and re-doing it. It may hold up OK in northern climes...but in the bahamas/Caribe it did not. I'm a Cetol/cetol gloss user myself but I would rather go back to varnish rather than use the Bristol based on what I've seen.
Must be applied THICK
If you apply Bristol (or any of the other 'modern' coatings) too thinly they wont last very long. You need THICK coatings or many coats to build up to correct final mil thickness. If you dont build up sufficient thickness there wont be sufficient UV blockers (usually a suspension of ferrous oxide, etc.) present to prevent the surface wood cells from being destroyed by UV. The UV destroyed cells losing adhesion with the rest of the wood causing the 'lifting' of the coating. Its the surface wood cells failing and not the coating. This stuff has to be applied THICK, then will be OK. I use a competitive product ... and Im going into my 8th season with only slop-on 'maintenance' coats every 2 years. THICK.
If you apply Bristol (or any of the other 'modern' coatings) too thinly they wont last very long. You need THICK coatings or many coats to build up to correct final mil thickness. If you dont build up sufficient thickness there wont be sufficient UV blockers (usually a suspension of ferrous oxide, etc.) present to prevent the surface wood cells from being destroyed by UV. The UV destroyed cells losing adhesion with the rest of the wood causing the 'lifting' of the coating. Its the surface wood cells failing and not the coating. This stuff has to be applied THICK, then will be OK. I use a competitive product ... and Im going into my 8th season with only slop-on 'maintenance' coats every 2 years. THICK.
I'll bite, RichH. Which specific competetive
product to Bristol Finish do you use on your exterior teak? I have used both varnish and Cetol and I have become a convert to Cetol as it seems to require much less maintenance although I still love the look of varnish and will use it below (or is that belowdecks?) with good results. I have never tried Bristol Finish and was curious what people had to say so thanks for the tip. It sounds as though Bristol Finish might be better in the cooler climes and worse in warmer areas and, oh yeah: THICK! Right. Thanks RichH, camaraderie and everyone.
product to Bristol Finish do you use on your exterior teak? I have used both varnish and Cetol and I have become a convert to Cetol as it seems to require much less maintenance although I still love the look of varnish and will use it below (or is that belowdecks?) with good results. I have never tried Bristol Finish and was curious what people had to say so thanks for the tip. It sounds as though Bristol Finish might be better in the cooler climes and worse in warmer areas and, oh yeah: THICK! Right. Thanks RichH, camaraderie and everyone.
Rich what are you using?
Please share your secret weapon and what prep work you did to get 8 years
Please share your secret weapon and what prep work you did to get 8 years
I currently use Honey Teak on my 'teakey'
12+ years service is supposedly not uncommon for Honey Teak. Im going into 8 years with only one major repair --- on those areas that I originally had too thinly applied. The mfg. of Honey Teak recommends a yearly 'maintenance coat' of clear .... but I do it with a very heavy coat every other year and powerbuff it in the intervening years. Yup, I powerbuff it ... I lightly flat sand with 2000 grit paper, then I use 3M Perfect-it with a 3M knobby foam pad on a high speed autobody shop polisher (at VERY low speed so I dont 'burn' the coating).... and I get a mirror surface similar to what you get when you 'hand-rub' a prime varnish job. I lightly power buff my gelcoat every two years, so I just include the Honey Teak too. Honey Teak is probably THE costliest coating on the market .... but when applied correctly and amortized over all the years of service you get it comes out the cheapest in first cost and time spent. This is for TEAK only, not for teak look-alikes such as Iroko, etc. Honey Teak is a copolymer of urethane and acrylic ... similar to the Interlux 'pro' series of paints used on the 'mega-yachts' and that are 'super-shine'. 2-part 'base' coat and 2 part clear coat. Since its a catalyzed system you can apply wet over wet and do all the base coats and some clear overcoats on the same day. I find it best to apply on COLD (40-45 deg.) to COOL days so that I get the best 'flow-out'. Caution: Honey teak when you first apply it will look like spilled 'butter scotch' but will quickly fade (weeks) in sunlight to approximately the same amber hue of top quality oil-based varnish. I agressively oxalic bleach my teak before coating. Since its quite expensive, the manufacturer will sell you the exact amount you need. The catalyst needs to be kept in a refrigerator. Soft bristle 'artist' brushes are the best to apply it with (or 'quality' foam brushes) ... no need for expensive 'badger'. To avoid runs and sags and to get the BEST 'flow-out' I use the famous Don Caseys methods of thinner addition .... trials on vertical flat glass plates to get the *correct* amount of thinner (for that days humidity/temperature) into the mix. Such directions are found within Don's "Roll & Tip for topside paint" directions ... found on the BoatUS website. or do websearch: "Don Casey"+"roll and tip". My experience with Bristol was on another boat of mine. I was quite satisfied with it but did find that if you 'thinned-out' any areas the wood beneath would soon get UV damage and then release/lift the coating. Most of these coatings apparently contain ferrous oxide as their 'UV screens' and that you really need thick coatings or you dont get the protection. In all probability if I had added extra overcoats of Bristol I'd probably be still using it today. Of course, any joint/scarf that 'works' is going to need constant care/repair .... and that is the same for ANY coating you have. As you can guess Im a recovering varnish-aholic. I can get both HT and Bristol to look like a 'Hinckley Quality' varnish job by hand rubbing and polishing .... and best of all it looks like varnish when done. If you 'finish' it you can have the 'quality job' as would be found on private jets or mega-yachts .... as there is NO coating system that you can just 'slop on' and have it looking 'good' IMHO. For interior work, I use nothing but BARTOP varnish, and then handrub with rottenstone andeither pumice or oil or water to get 'satin', semi-gloss, or brilliant gloss ... hand rubbing develops the irridesceent glowing 'patina' below the surface of the varnish. Hard BARTOP varnish not soft 'spar' varnish some oldfashioned paint stores can still make bar-top for you. My experience with Cetol is that eventually it will build up to a certain thickness (about 1/16") then it will start to severely spider-crack; and, since it adheres so well, you destroy a lot of teak surface when removing it (unless you use an aggressive chemical stripper and risk demaging the adjacent gelcoat). I simply dont prefer what it looks like when done, even the 'light' versions. Its a matter of 'taste'. I have a Tayana 'full dressed' .... double eyebrows/lowbrows/corners/butterfly hatches/, etc. with teak brightwork and Id rather go sailing than being a slave to 'varnish'. BTW - I mirror polish all my bronze and coat it with several thick coats of the HT top/clear coat.... keeps the bronze looking great for several years. Honey Teak = www.signaturefinish.com There 'was' a competetive product to HT on the Left Coast that was an epoxide base: "Smith & Co. 5 Year Clear" ... but have seen nor heard anything on Smith & Co. for some time. Just like 'good' varnish only the small independent 'niche' manufacturers have the 'good' alternative coatings.
12+ years service is supposedly not uncommon for Honey Teak. Im going into 8 years with only one major repair --- on those areas that I originally had too thinly applied. The mfg. of Honey Teak recommends a yearly 'maintenance coat' of clear .... but I do it with a very heavy coat every other year and powerbuff it in the intervening years. Yup, I powerbuff it ... I lightly flat sand with 2000 grit paper, then I use 3M Perfect-it with a 3M knobby foam pad on a high speed autobody shop polisher (at VERY low speed so I dont 'burn' the coating).... and I get a mirror surface similar to what you get when you 'hand-rub' a prime varnish job. I lightly power buff my gelcoat every two years, so I just include the Honey Teak too. Honey Teak is probably THE costliest coating on the market .... but when applied correctly and amortized over all the years of service you get it comes out the cheapest in first cost and time spent. This is for TEAK only, not for teak look-alikes such as Iroko, etc. Honey Teak is a copolymer of urethane and acrylic ... similar to the Interlux 'pro' series of paints used on the 'mega-yachts' and that are 'super-shine'. 2-part 'base' coat and 2 part clear coat. Since its a catalyzed system you can apply wet over wet and do all the base coats and some clear overcoats on the same day. I find it best to apply on COLD (40-45 deg.) to COOL days so that I get the best 'flow-out'. Caution: Honey teak when you first apply it will look like spilled 'butter scotch' but will quickly fade (weeks) in sunlight to approximately the same amber hue of top quality oil-based varnish. I agressively oxalic bleach my teak before coating. Since its quite expensive, the manufacturer will sell you the exact amount you need. The catalyst needs to be kept in a refrigerator. Soft bristle 'artist' brushes are the best to apply it with (or 'quality' foam brushes) ... no need for expensive 'badger'. To avoid runs and sags and to get the BEST 'flow-out' I use the famous Don Caseys methods of thinner addition .... trials on vertical flat glass plates to get the *correct* amount of thinner (for that days humidity/temperature) into the mix. Such directions are found within Don's "Roll & Tip for topside paint" directions ... found on the BoatUS website. or do websearch: "Don Casey"+"roll and tip". My experience with Bristol was on another boat of mine. I was quite satisfied with it but did find that if you 'thinned-out' any areas the wood beneath would soon get UV damage and then release/lift the coating. Most of these coatings apparently contain ferrous oxide as their 'UV screens' and that you really need thick coatings or you dont get the protection. In all probability if I had added extra overcoats of Bristol I'd probably be still using it today. Of course, any joint/scarf that 'works' is going to need constant care/repair .... and that is the same for ANY coating you have. As you can guess Im a recovering varnish-aholic. I can get both HT and Bristol to look like a 'Hinckley Quality' varnish job by hand rubbing and polishing .... and best of all it looks like varnish when done. If you 'finish' it you can have the 'quality job' as would be found on private jets or mega-yachts .... as there is NO coating system that you can just 'slop on' and have it looking 'good' IMHO. For interior work, I use nothing but BARTOP varnish, and then handrub with rottenstone andeither pumice or oil or water to get 'satin', semi-gloss, or brilliant gloss ... hand rubbing develops the irridesceent glowing 'patina' below the surface of the varnish. Hard BARTOP varnish not soft 'spar' varnish some oldfashioned paint stores can still make bar-top for you. My experience with Cetol is that eventually it will build up to a certain thickness (about 1/16") then it will start to severely spider-crack; and, since it adheres so well, you destroy a lot of teak surface when removing it (unless you use an aggressive chemical stripper and risk demaging the adjacent gelcoat). I simply dont prefer what it looks like when done, even the 'light' versions. Its a matter of 'taste'. I have a Tayana 'full dressed' .... double eyebrows/lowbrows/corners/butterfly hatches/, etc. with teak brightwork and Id rather go sailing than being a slave to 'varnish'. BTW - I mirror polish all my bronze and coat it with several thick coats of the HT top/clear coat.... keeps the bronze looking great for several years. Honey Teak = www.signaturefinish.com There 'was' a competetive product to HT on the Left Coast that was an epoxide base: "Smith & Co. 5 Year Clear" ... but have seen nor heard anything on Smith & Co. for some time. Just like 'good' varnish only the small independent 'niche' manufacturers have the 'good' alternative coatings.
OK, I am impressed. You could start your own
version of a Piratical Sailor, or at least one article from that post. I read about signature finsish somewhere but have not had occasion to try these products. It sounds as if wiith a Cetol finish you should sand it down before reapplying if it gets to thick, so thanks for that. Bristol and Honey Teak sound like pretty good products even if the initial cost is fairly high. After reading that post and others of yours I was convinced you were a chemist/scientist of some kind and then I checked your profile. Bingo! I just had not counted on the ski patrol facet of your personality from your postings on boating. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
version of a Piratical Sailor, or at least one article from that post. I read about signature finsish somewhere but have not had occasion to try these products. It sounds as if wiith a Cetol finish you should sand it down before reapplying if it gets to thick, so thanks for that. Bristol and Honey Teak sound like pretty good products even if the initial cost is fairly high. After reading that post and others of yours I was convinced you were a chemist/scientist of some kind and then I checked your profile. Bingo! I just had not counted on the ski patrol facet of your personality from your postings on boating. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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