Brazing together a bow roller setup?

Macboy

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Aug 8, 2014
254
Macgregor 26S Sherwood Park, Alberta
One of the other projects that has made the list of "that would be nice" is a bow roller setup for our anchor(s). Seeing the new low profile box in the "what did you to today" thread has me thinking about it again.

I'm not familiar with he limits and capabilities of brazing aluminum but could a guy whip one up this way or is it better welded (and I guess made out of stainless)? I've got all the brazing gear for the mast gate project which I'll undertake this winter anyway. Just wondering - I'm a tinkerer and always open to new projects to add to the "when she lets me" list :)
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
the brazing of aluminum takes practice, and quite a bit of it to be good at it.
before working on your mast/mastgate, spend several hours for a few days learning all there is to know about the procedure before attempting it. you can really make a mess of an expensive mast in a hurry.
the people at the display booths, where the largest volume of these products are generally sold, are professionals working on flat surfaces with lots of experience in making it look easy, when it really isnt. but the way they do it sells their product at about 3-4 times the price you can buy it for at the welding store.

short of machine forming, welding IS better, and always will be....

a bow roller needs to be strong, and 3/16" welded aluminum (1/8" could work also) is a good material for your size of boat, but brazing it together isnt a very durable option... stainless is the best, but its harder to work with, and steel works too, but its best if you get it hot dip galvanized or paint it with zinc chromate primer before painting it the color of your choice. this will keep it nice and free of corrosion for awhile, but as its steel, it will rust where the paint chips or wears off...

I use stainless almost exclusively on my boats...

personally, when Im investing my time in something, I choose to use the best methods and materials to get the results that will look good to the critics/public/wife/friends/neighbors.... and so it will last at least as long as the rest of the boat, rather than using materials and methods that may be questionable. if I cant afford it at the time, I have to budget better to get what I want, because there is no reason to add something to the boat if it isnt going to look good and last for a lifetime, because I dont want a trashy or rusty looking boat. (and neither would a buyer when/if I ever want to sell it)
and im not being snobbish, nor do I think im better than anyone else, because anyone can make a decision as to how they want their boat to look, and budget accordingly....
but with that said, one can try and see what works for them, and probably should because this is how we learn.
as much as I conscientiously make every attempt to get it right the first time, I surly didnt start out thinking like this... but after spending small fortunes (for a poor man) in money and time in doing it over, I have honed my skills and thought process to always think twice, think thoroughly, build once, be done with it and move on to the next project... in the end, its cheaper that way. except for the part about moving onto the next project, 'cuz this step drives the expense up a little:biggrin:
 
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Aug 22, 2011
1,113
MacGregor Venture V224 Cheeseland
centerline as always has made some excellent suggestions.

Personally I can't imagine why you wouldn't just buy a hefty stainless steel bow roller and spend your efforts with mounting it securely. Ours takes a beating and I remember how awful it was handling the anchor all the time without it.
 

RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,602
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
One of the other projects that has made the list of "that would be nice" is a bow roller setup for our anchor(s). Seeing the new low profile box in the "what did you to today" thread has me thinking about it again.

I'm not familiar with he limits and capabilities of brazing aluminum but could a guy whip one up this way or is it better welded (and I guess made out of stainless)? I've got all the brazing gear for the mast gate project which I'll undertake this winter anyway. Just wondering - I'm a tinkerer and always open to new projects to add to the "when she lets me" list :)
No reason not to do it yourself Macboy. the design of a bow roller isn't rocket science and there appears to be plenty of money to be saved, and certainly satisfaction to be gained, by building you own. I would likely opt for stainless myself because of the strength required and the abuse the part will be subject to, but I expect aluminum would also work if you use heavy enough material.
I've never actually asked him what he uses, but looking at some of Sumners many aluminum projects I think he may use gas as well, so you might talk to him about that. I do stainless welding with a MIG and find it a satisfactory diy method that doesn't break the bank. the one time I tried gas welding aluminum (Dillon torch) I didn't feel very confident in the results. but then again, I was welding a broken part, so new material would have been much easier, as the key seems to be having perfectly clean material to weld.

.02
Russ
 
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May 24, 2004
7,164
CC 30 South Florida
No upside to try and reinvent the wheel. Just figure out how do you intend to install it and purchase an SS roller assembly that will fit your installation plan. It would be good to place the anchor you intend to use in place and then figure out the desired measurements for the assembly. I would prefer one with no holes pre-drilled so that I could drill them where desired. I just happen to favor a Claw anchor for a close fit but you can use what you prefer. For a backing plate I would use large washers on at least 4 bolts.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Summer made an excellent anchor roller. See his website. http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/macgregor-index.html
I wanted a double bow roller for the Mac and wanted it specifically for ...

the 22 lb. claw and the 25 lb. Manson so made the one above....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-16.html
But for a single bow roller I'd buy one (stainless) and did that when...


... I needed a second one for the Endeavour. There is a lot more room on that boat for a second commercial roller so it was the way to go.
Just buy one and spend your time doing a mod where you can't buy what you need,
Sumner
=====================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 

Macboy

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Aug 8, 2014
254
Macgregor 26S Sherwood Park, Alberta
Okay. Well thanks first off for everyone's input. Now imagine my embarrassment to have not realized this was the sort of thing a guy could buy ready made! I'll have a hard enough time committing to drilling the holes up at the bow - I'm happy to let someone manufacture the roller assembly for me.

I know this is only half the battle here but definitely the larger half given the fact I was inquiring about brazing.

Centreline - thanks for the reminder about the mast and expense thereof. Never a bad thing to be reminded of. The mast gate I'm brazing up is actually Sumner's insert (I think it was Sumner anyway - apologies to the actual sharer if it was someone else). The one that closes off the wide bit and allows the sail slides to come down the luff track further for a flatter sail pack. It looks kind of like a tuning fork.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
.... The mast gate I'm brazing up is actually Sumner's insert (I think it was Sumner anyway - apologies to the actual sharer if it was someone else). The one that closes off the wide bit and allows the sail slides to come down the luff track further for a flatter sail pack. It looks kind of like a tuning fork.

If it is the one above, yes that is mine...

...Before the last trip I made one like it out of steel (not shown), welding the pieces together but I think brazing could work also for the application. I then had it powder coated. I used the aluminum one a lot but felt that it had ..

... the potential to bend. More on it here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-13.html
and a video ...
It does do a great job in.....

.....letting the sail fall down to the boom and into the sailpack. I'm very happy with it.
Sumner
===============================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...

MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
Jan 8, 2015
360
MacGregor 26S, Goman Express 30 Kerr Reservoir
Summer, that looks like what I need for reefing since my 26S has been converted over to slugs as well. Have you tried reefing with it? I intend to make mine out of stainless steel since I have an abundant supply from a job I have been on.
 
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Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Summer, that looks like what I need for reefing since my 26S has been converted over to slugs as well. Have you tried reefing with it? I intend to make mine out of stainless steel since I have an abundant supply from a job I have been on.
Stainless would be great if you have it. I might order some and make one from that at some point.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-22.html
I reef with it all the time. I have single line reefing...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-22.html
....and it works great. With the sailpack it is quick and easy,
Sumner
==============================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...

MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
Jan 8, 2015
360
MacGregor 26S, Goman Express 30 Kerr Reservoir
I like your addition of the block on the sail next to the mast, do you have a similar setup for the cunningham?
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I like your addition of the block on the sail next to the mast, do you have a similar setup for the cunningham?
I don't have a Cunningham.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-22.html
I do have a similar block back at the reef point on the clew. After the Bahama trip where a few times I could of used a higher reef point Martin at Somerset Sails put one in so now I'm going to have to figure how I want to rig that one. I'd use it very little so might not go to a complete second reefing line like what I have now, which will stay,
Sumner
====================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas