Bow
- Thread starter pumpkinpie
- Start date
Photo of your bow setup would be helpful. I can’t cross my bowlines because the anchor windlass is in the middle.
I also can't visualize crossed bow lines. The usual reason to cross stern ones is to get the angle more laterally, so they can hold the boat in the middle of the slip without being too short. But going to the bow where the cleats are already close to the centerline I can't imagine it being a big help.
Lines tied to the boat are about angle, not crossed or uncrossed. If your cleats are positioned perpendicular to your bow, you should be good. If they are closer to the centerline of your boat, you could cross them to get a better angle.
Next, crossed lines can give you better angle and longer lines for tide changes. A longer line can accommodate a greater tide.
On Seneca, we don’t cross our lines on the sailboat. Our bow and stern cleats are beside the boat, and there is no tide.
In Florida, we almost always crossed lines to accommodate tidal rise and fall.
Hope this helps.
Next, crossed lines can give you better angle and longer lines for tide changes. A longer line can accommodate a greater tide.
On Seneca, we don’t cross our lines on the sailboat. Our bow and stern cleats are beside the boat, and there is no tide.
In Florida, we almost always crossed lines to accommodate tidal rise and fall.
Hope this helps.
Unless you like chafe, less crossing of bowlines is best. Stern lines are different because the transom is much more wide. So crossed lines can limit side to side movement of the aft of the boat in the slip. The bow cleats are usually not very far apart so crossing doesn't limit the side to side movement of the bow very much or at least not much more than bowlines uncrossed. Yet there are so many different configurations of cleats, dock cleats, poles, floating or fixed docks it's hard to make a general rule. I spend a fair amount of time watching how my boat rides in the slip - it takes time - during PM winds, high and low tide and eventually arrive at an optimum tie up. Oops! On some occasions I can't board the boat when the tie up is ideal.
Usually, stern lines are crossed outboard of the boat. They cross over open water. That way, the tidal rise and lowering of boat won't interfere.
If the lines cross over the boat on their way to opposite cleats, those lines drag and rub on the deck and gunnells as well as each other when the boat rises above the level of the dock cleats.
Crossed bow lines can't cross outboard of the deck and always pull down on the gunnells or hawsepipes, given the bow is usually well above dock level.
As others have said, crossing dock lines gives more line length for the purposes of providing give (stretch) where the tidal change demands it. If you need to add more length to your bow lines, consider running the line aft from your hawsepipes to a cleat farther away, like a midship cleat. This way, the lines don't rub against eachother. They will still chafe in the hawse pipe, but they will do that anyhow.
-Will (Dragonfly)
If the lines cross over the boat on their way to opposite cleats, those lines drag and rub on the deck and gunnells as well as each other when the boat rises above the level of the dock cleats.
Crossed bow lines can't cross outboard of the deck and always pull down on the gunnells or hawsepipes, given the bow is usually well above dock level.
As others have said, crossing dock lines gives more line length for the purposes of providing give (stretch) where the tidal change demands it. If you need to add more length to your bow lines, consider running the line aft from your hawsepipes to a cleat farther away, like a midship cleat. This way, the lines don't rub against eachother. They will still chafe in the hawse pipe, but they will do that anyhow.
-Will (Dragonfly)
We recommend/require two lines on each of the 4 cleats here (total 8 dock lines), 2 crossed if possible, plus a spring line. I cross one (from each side) on the bow, theory is in a big blow, if a cleat pulls out, the boat is still secured....especially given the way Catalina installed cleats. (as said, not always feasible if you have a windlass or bunch of other bow stuff in the way)....
When we shove off, we generally take one from each of the 4 corners of the boat with us, and leave the other 4 on the pilings for quick eze tie-up on return....has worked well over time...
We do get some chafe on the finger piers with the wind tide low, piece of fire hose on the edge of pier solves that...
When we shove off, we generally take one from each of the 4 corners of the boat with us, and leave the other 4 on the pilings for quick eze tie-up on return....has worked well over time...
We do get some chafe on the finger piers with the wind tide low, piece of fire hose on the edge of pier solves that...
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Depends on the location of the chocks and the cleats. On most Sabre models the chocks are very close, inches, from the bow. This can lead to a sharp turn at the chock and puts undue pressure on the bow chock. It also stresses the line as it makes the sharp turn. Crossing allows for a fairer lead out of the chock which over all is a better idea.
After blowing through a bunch of irreplaceable chocks, I no longer use them and lead the lines at a fair angle over the toe rail which is protected by a SS chafing stip.
And, we could all give a better answer if we had photos.
After blowing through a bunch of irreplaceable chocks, I no longer use them and lead the lines at a fair angle over the toe rail which is protected by a SS chafing stip.
And, we could all give a better answer if we had photos.
It’s impossible to offer generalized advice as a specific solution until you actually see the boat. Given my druthers, I would prefer that the line load on the cleat was down the length of it, and not across it. It’s much stronger in that direction.
Me too. As you note, each instance is different. On the Sabre, the angle caused by the chock and the placement of the chock exacerbate the stresses. Hence, I have broken 3 chocks on 2 different boats. Also the placement of the chocks that far forward cause to much stress on boat and cause it to pivot about the bow in a real blow. The chock placement works well at anchor when the loaded are direct forward and aft and align well with the cleat. But at the dock, the cleat placement on the docks make it difficult (in my case) to get a fair lead and to reduce the stress on the lines and fittings.