Bow Eye Loose

[KrustyKrab]

Another Crazy Dave question, sorry. But since you are intimately familiar with the 23.5, do you know what backing is in the bow for the bow eye? Is it wood or just 'glass (aside from the small backing plate)?

I was just getting ready to launch this week and I was tightening up my new winch strap on the drum by turning the crank, and "pop" my bow eye pops out about 1/2"

Now I can envision my boat sitting half way on the trailer and me holding a bow eye attached to a winch strap in my hand!

I've read the posts on bow eye repair, some with wood, some with pipe, some with the stock backing plate. Those stock backing plates seem awfully small to me and don't seem to spread the load very much. What would you recommend? Attached is a pic of the bow inside that I just happened to take for reference right before the bow eye popped out.

 

[Nils T]

I do not have a Hunter but I am currently repairing my Bow Eye. I also found that the backing plate was very small. On the inside of the boat, I found that the backing plate was sunk into the fiberglass and there were some small cracks about a 0.5" on the sides around the indented section. On the advise of West Systems, I am going to grind away the fiberglass to make a cone and fill the area with resin, slow curing hardener and 404 filler. When I get ready to put it all together, I am going to make a new SS backing plate that will be a couple inches longer and as wide as I can fit in the spot. If there is enough bolt length, I will make the new backing plate out of 0.25" SS.

Hope that helps.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

KrustyCrab;

You will need to take the forward V Berth cover plate off and inspect. It should be held in place with screws and in most cases you will find it is tightly held in place, so be careful pulling that plate off. Since the original build date of the boat, anything could be behind it. However, it is the bow area with a curvature. In many instances, there was a rectangular stainless steel tang or metal strap used as a backing plate that also served to distribute the load. Since I cannot see what is there, the best suggestion is a metal pipe galvanized or steel about 6-8 inches long which to attach if the metal strap is not there or long enough. Stainless steel is more difficult to drill thru but galvanized steel is ok and easier to drill thru not to mention cost as well. Make sure you caulk with 4200 or West Marine silicon actually made by silaflex that does not shrink nor meldue plus it adheres very well. Do not use Satans glue or 5200 in this repair.

It could be that the backing plate is there and tighten the nuts. You may have small turning nuts on the outside of the eye.

 

[KrustyKrab]

Thanks, Nils, I appreciate you sharing your experience. I'm definitely thinking about a more solid backing device, such as pipe. I was amazed to find out that the only thing holding in the bow eye on a "big" boat like this was a little 3 inch piece of 1/8" steel. I haven't had a chance (work) to crawl inside to look at the inside part after it pulled loose yet. I'm hoping that there isn't too much damage to the 'glass and I can get away without messing with epoxy. Also, I have found that you can purchase bow eyes with longer bolts, so you could make a thicker backing plate. Or, you could back off the nuts on the outside of the u-bolt so it will go in further.

Dave, thank you again for your always helpful input. I'm not sure if you can see pictures on your device, but see my first post, I have removed the fore berth cover and exposed the bow eye plate. The photo was actually taken before I pulled the eye loose, I was in there looking for leaks (another story). The photo below is the eye after I pulled it loose. Fortunately, it looks like there is no damage to the exterior gelcoat. That black mark is just dirt.

I was curious if you knew if Hunter used a wood backer under the fiberglass in the front "V" where the eye goes through. I have googled other boats where the bow eye was attached to a wood backer that was then 'glassed over. The wood would eventually rot and the bow eye would pop out. I will definitely feel more secure pulling on it if it had a 12" piece of pipe backing it up.

 

[Benny17441]

Bow eyes are not designed to be a heavy attachment points. Their intended use is mostly to help guide a boat into position as it is floated unto its trailer. Another use is to help guide the bow into its proper position against the trailer stop. Using the winch to try to slide the boat along its bunks once the trailer is out of the water imparts a force on the bow eye it was not designed to handle. The reason these pieces are not heavily backed it is so that they will pull out freely rather than allow greater damage to the bow. To secure the boat against the trailer the use of straps is recommended with attachment points at the cleats.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I use to argue about wood backing plates behind the bow eye for one reason as mentioned. wood rots when it gets wet. I replaced with metal pipe either galvanized or stainless steel but opted in most for the galvanized. I used lock washers along with the nylon nuts to insure securing. Also, a longer backing plate was good vs. the shorter piece.

 

[topcat0399]

We used galvanized pipe.

Just be sure to use a thick wall type pipe and not the cheap thin walled galvanized fence post you find at a place such as Menards.

 

[isaksp00]

I patched the bow eye on my 23 this season. There was a fair bit of dry rotted wood that I had to pick out after I removed the eye. I wanted to ensure I filled in whatever volume may have been left open from that - possibly there was balsa filler between the outer hull layer and inner hull; yours may also have that.

I bought a low cost (like $6 or 7) kit that is used to do pastry fluting with frosting, at a Walmart - plastic bags, and metal nozzles. I mixed some West System epoxy and added the white filler until it was the consistency of peanut butter, or maybe a bit looser. I used a paint stirrer to sort of ladle that "cream" into the plastic squeeze bag, and then squeezed the epoxy into the holes until it came out inside, and then drilled new holes. I could not figure any other way to force the material through the holes. A bit messy (wear disposable gloves if you need to do repairs) but it did work. I used butyl rubber under the metal strap as a caulk.

 

[Nils T]

I am using West System 610 to fix my Bow Eye area. I did not use the mixing tube that comes with the 610 but I put a small amount in a mixing cup. The material is easy to work with. It has the consistence of pudding. I started by filling in the bow eye screw holes from the outside. It was easy to push the material into the holes using a small piece of wood. I am going to fill in the area inside that I needed to remove some of the fiberglass.

 

[KrustyKrab]

Thanks all! I know the bow eye isn't for pulling the boat up dry bunks. I would just like a little more security if I ever need to give it an extra tug on the winch. Especially to replace rotted wood as the anchoring substance.

The epoxy and pipe idea seems to be the favorite and I am liking it. Is there any trouble mixing stainless and galvanized hardware?

I finally got inside to take an "after" pic (see below). You can see the lower bolt has sunken into the material on the "after" pic, and that is the leg of the ubolt that is sticking out on the exterior pic (above post). On first inspection it does kind of look like wood grain behind the fiberglass to bulk up that area. I didn't get to dig in it yet. What a dumb idea, like Dave said, wood rots. It seems I might have a small leak where the bow stanchion attaches. That's probably what caused the rot. Wood filler might be OK for locker covers or seats, but for something as vital as a bow eye (think breaking while hauling out) one would think they would use a more resistant substance, especially where it is not easily inspected!

Turns out I will have more time to work on it..... see coming post "Dismasted" !

 

[John23883]

Piece o pipe

Yeah, mine had a small piece of wood that squashed. This works. It doesn't get wet, the rust was on it when I took it out of the parts bin, before I put it in the boat.

 

[isaksp00]

I couldn't tell on my 23 what's back there, but I suspect both models were balsa cored in that space. A lot of what looked like dry rotted balsa came out when I pulled the eye out. I'd fill it as much as feasible with thickened epoxy either from the inside or by forcing in from the outside, after "damming" the holes inside.

 

[KrustyKrab]

Got the old eye out and sure enough it was rotted wood underneath. The blue you see in the photo is the tape that I used on the outside to cover the holes temporarily. Looks like I will have to go the epoxy and pipe route. So, here is a question - how do you re-drill your holes when there is no room to get a drill between your bow chocks and the eye mount?

Is it just me or does anyone else think that this is not the place where you would want wood supporting steel?

Oh, and it was only held on by two regular (not locking) nuts and a couple of lock washers on this tiny backer plate! And they were both just hand tight, I removed them with my fingers! (photo 2)

 

[isaksp00]

I had to remove the bow chocks and supporting hardware on the trailer, and then used a drill from the outside. Mine does not have a pipe as backing; it has a stainless strap that is more substantive than the strip you have - which looks like whatever came with the eye. It is a bit wider than what you show, and extends upwards - it may be part of the chaine plate for the forestay - I can't see up where it goes. It does not, to my dismay, extend more than about 1/2 in below the lower stud of the eye, but it seems strong enough and I used it for 3 seasons to hook to a mooring.

 

[KrustyKrab]

Well, I made a temporary repair with some large washers just so I can get her in the water before the season is a total waste. I plan to "Git Rot" the wood filler after boating season and then use the pipe fix.

Note how pathetic the original backer strip looks next to a couple of 1" washers!

I also ordered some of Mainesail's butyl tape to reseat my other leaky hardware.