Bought a Hunter 23 1987 boat with the wrong mast

[teresa24]

I've never done one of these sites, but I'm at a loss on what to do.
I recently purchased a Hunter 23 1987 sailboat from A-Haul boat haulers in Rhode Island who sold me a boat that was represented to me "complete". I told the seller that I knew nothing about buying a boat and wanted it for my children and me and trusted him when he stated that it was complete and ready to sail. In trying to rig it over the last few weeks I learned that spreaders were missing. I bought spreaders and realized that the mast did not go with the boat. I went to buy spreaders to match the "Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender Mast" that was put on my boat and found out the sails were too long for the mast and the boom did not match the mast. In order for this boat to sail, I would need an entire new mast to match the sails that hopefully would go with this boat. I'm at a loss on what to do? I have paid for a mooring and want to sail this summer so I am looking to purchase a different boat (I'm a single Mom of 3 kids and really cannot afford two boats but have no choice now that I have a mooring and don't know what to tell my kids).
If anyone has any interest in the different parts of this boat or the boat as is and can piece it together to make it sail, I would greatly appreciate hearing from you and hopefully sell it. From what I can see, the boat itself is in good condition, a little rub rail problem but the interior is in good shape. The sails look like they are from the original Hunter boat.
Or, if anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. The gentlemen I bought my boat from will not return my phone calls and I've asked him to take the boat back. Is this ever done in the boat industry, or was it my sad luck.
Thanks for any ideas.

 

[Clark]

My advice is to find the nearest reputable Hunter dealer and discuss this with them. It sounds like you have purchased a piecemeal rig and you'll definitely need help sorting out what you have and what you need. You could try to get your money back but the only thing missing (as it was explained in your note) were the spreaders. They may have been just truthful enough to get out of any civil action.

Good Luck

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

While I'm saddened to hear about your situation, I think you listened and bought from someone who probably does not care about sailing and may suffer from moral and or ethical deficits.
As for the problem you're facing, the first thing you need to know is that you have a great boat for a family. I admit I'm biased, since I'm the original and still owner of a 1986 Hunter 23, and my wife and I raised three kids sailing on our boat. The youngest start was at less than two months of age (born early November, sailing on new year's day). So instead of getting another boat, I think you'll be better off finding the right mast and rigging than buying a second boat. I imagine that you should be able to sell the old mast to recoup some of the costs.
As for the mast, if you look at the archives via the "search" function button, for h23 masts, you'll discover that there were three different brands of mast used as original equipment on h23s. That I am aware of from various postings, there were at least two different tabernacle (the base the mast sits on) designs. The best thing would be to contact a good rigger and get some help in locating, buying and setting up the appropriate mast for your boat.
Second, and fully as important, get someone to help you learn to sail, safely and comfortably. You're moving into a whole new way of doing things. You're going to spend time being frustrated and unhappy unless you get that help. Sailing classes are a great way to start, and if your kids are old enough, you should look into taking them as a family. You mentioned getting into a marina. Get over there ahead of time and meet some of your future neighbors, enlist them to helping you and your family become sailors. Most people are very welcoming and can be a great source of tips and insights, as well as a shoulder to cry on if you're feeling overwhelmed. Use this site as a resource. Check the owners directory for any h23 owners in your area. If there are none, talk with other owners of 20 to 25 ft. boats.
Finally, keep in mind one simple truth: we all start off as beginners. We progress from there. Its not always easy, but its a lot of fun.
Keep in contact. Good luck and happy sailing.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Don12364]

Hi Teresa,
It occurs to me that there is probably another boat out there somewhere which also has the wrong mast.
Have you tried speaking with the vendors of your boat about this matter because it seems likely that they simply loaded up the wrong mast when they delivered the boat to you.

 

[seadaddler]

Call seller

I would do all the above mentioned and still keep calling the seller insisting that he help get the boat in working order ,it could just be a mistake but he should return your calls if it was a simple mistake.
Nick

 

[Ray T]

Re: Call seller

If you have one you might write a letter to your local Better Business Beureau. Sometime they can nudge a vendor into doing the right thing.

 

[Steve Dion]

Have you thought about having Bubba go knock on his door?

Actually I have to agree with Donalex. There is probably another boat with a similar problem. It is too bad that the SOB will not return your call. I would contact your DMV (assume that is who licenses your boat in your state) and report this to them.

There has got to be someone that contact the company and find out if it was fraud or a legit mistake and he is just being unresponsive.

 

[teresa24]

Hunter Mast problems

Dear Friends,
First of all, this site is great! Thank you all for your responses.
The seller is a boat hauler and finally contacted me after many phone calls and emails. He says that he has a mast and a boom and is dropping it by on Friday. I don't think it is a Hunter 23 mast and I left him the message that I want to verify the specifications of the mast and that it will fit the sails and that the lines will attach to the boat at the correct angle. Please correct me if I am wrong, the spreaders are swept back at an angle on this boat, therefore, this new mast, if it is not a Hunter 23 mast, will have to have spreaders at a length and angle to fit the boat, in addition to the length of the mast being long enough to accomodate the Hunter sails, which are included with this boat?
The seller gets parts of boats and sells and hauls boats as a business. I left him the message that I would actually like him to rig my boat with this mast and fit it to my sails and not just drop it off at my marina. If it does not fit, then I am in the same situation that I am in presently.
At this point what do you all recommend that I do? Have him take the boat away and give me money back? I could buy another boat that is complete.
But, if he won't take it back, can someone please tell me what to look for in the mast?
What should the length be?
What angle should the spreaders be and the length of the spreaders?
What should the length of the shrouds be?
Any other dimensions that I should know about?
Oh...a turnbuckle is broken off the backstay - he should replace that also, shouldn't he?
I welcome any advice and thank everyone for their replies.
Sincerely,
Teresa

 

[teresa24]

Bubba

Oh...
Who is Bubba and where can I get a hold of him ?

 

[teresa24]

Mast - last thought

Oh I forgot...
If he has a Catalina 22 mast - will that fit?
I think I recall him mentioning that, but I could be wrong...?
Teresa

 

[petersea]

Theresa 24,
While this might be a more expensive suggestion you may have to have the main sail "cut" to fit what every you do have for a mast and boom, you may also need your jib sail cut. Any sail loft can cut your sail to size. As a matter of fact there is a sail loft just around the corner from you at Spicers Marina (Custom Marine Canvas). My best suggestion would be to ask for your money back and start over again, but apparently the seller will not help you with this. This is going to get expensive no matter what you do so please don't get disappointed with boating. I don't know what you financial situation is but maybe sell you boat as is or see if you can get a "parts boat". Possibly Sailing Specialties in Noank can help you you might just want to stop over there and talk to them they are good people and helpful and who know that may have parts for you. I don't see any other option but to get the correct mast and boom (expensive) or make your sails work with what ever mast and boom you have. Good Luck with your problems but don't give up Fishers Island Sound and this area is a great place to sail !

 

[teresa24]

Hi - thank you Pete, I heard from my seller this am. He has an Oday22 mast for me. I questioned the spreaders must be swept back and he said that they were not. I told him that would not work. He said he had a broken Hunter mast and would give that to me for the parts. I also just spoke with Sailing Specialites and they are positive that this is not going to work without it being a lot of money for me and a potential hazard to me and my kids. What do I do? Is this ever done? I just want this guy to take this back. He promised me a complete boat and this is far from complete. Would you insist that he take it back. He is a hauling company that I paid to have his boat hauled to my marina and it has been there since February. I could have worked on this over the last few months had I known it was incomplete and be sailing by now! My summer is being wasted.
In the hopes that he takes it back, do you know of any Pearson Ensigns out there for sale. In learning more about boats, I think that is what I want so I can race in the future with the Mudheads.
Do you race on Wed nights? I'd love to get on a boat as crew?
Thank you
Teresa

 

[petersea]

Teresa, I do not race with the "MUDHEADS" so sorry not much help there however you could post a "crew available" notice on the bulletin boards at Spicers (in the new bathhouse). I got to think Sailing Spec is correct it will be a lot of money to get this corrected. I would push for the seller to refund your money as he can not provide the correct mast. I don't know of any Pearson Ensigns for sale off hand but there are a lot of boat in that size range that are available for sale. URI has a boat donation program and here is a possible boat that may fit you needs http://www.urifoundation.org/uriboa...d=23427&return=class_search.pl?boat_type=sail
The prices are negotiable and inventory keeps changing, the j 24 would be a great boat for Wednesday night racing . Get a copy of Soundings magazine (available in Spicers store, if you can find anywhere else, they have classified ads. Check this web site and yachworld.com for boats in the area. If you go to Spicers Johnny Mac is the broker you could talk to him and see what he knows of. First thing you need to do is get straight with the boat you now have. The seller has an obligation to give you a complete correct boat, ask him if he minds being liable for selling you a boat with out the correct mast just in case something would happen. I think not ! but maybe only get pushy as a last resort. Better Business Bureau is a possibility. I guess some of this depends on how much money you have invested and how much you are willing to spend. Maybe get some experience with the mudheads and go boat shopping when you are more sure of what type of boat you want. not wanting to sound rude it appears like you got suckered on this boat purchase. I would do everything possible to get the seller to take it back and refund you money even if you take a lose on the hauling charges because while you can fix this boat it will be expensive and potentialy dangerous if not done correctly. Any boat purchase should have a professional "survey" done but sometime the price of the boat makes this very costly. In that event you need to have someone who is very familiar with boats give you an opinion and hope for the best. don't mean to be all doom and gloom stick with this and sailing will be fun. Especially for your kids this can be a lifelong passion for them

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Teresa, you are correct that the h23 has swept-back spreaders (to create a pre-bend in the mast). I know the masthead is 33' above the water line, but I've never needed to measure the mast's height. I'm hoping to get out to the lake tomorrow, and I'll try to get some measurements for you. I still think your best bet is to rig your boat correctly rather than buying another one. You might talk with the seller about either providing the correct mast or refunding a portion of the purchase price to cover your additional expense in obtaining one through other sources.
If the seller remains unhelpful, you might see your state has a consumer protection office, say in the state attorney general's office. Certainly he failed to deliver acceptable, conforming goods, and you seem to have given him timely notice of the problem. Keep on it, it'll be worth-while in the long run. Good luck. We're all pulling for you.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Teresa: estimated measurements (made with a steel tape on the halyard and eyeballing the hight, then reading it at the base) on my h23 mast (France Spar) is that the mast, not including the mast head cap (a separate cast piece) is 29' 3", the forestay attaches about 25'1" above the tabernacle, the uppers attach about 24' above the tabernacle, the spreaders attach about 12'6" above the tabernacle, they are 3' long and swept back at about a 15degree angle, the lowers attach about 12'1" above the tabernacle, and the top of the gooseneck fitting is about 2'9" above the tabernacle.
I hope this helps in evaluating your options, including the suitability of whatever mast he's trying to offer you. Additionally, you might take a look at the Kenyon site (I found it by googling "hunter 23 mast") as it states that its 3350 MORC mast section was standard for h23s. In fact, it was one of the three brands used as original equipment for h23s. Maybe you can get the seller to spring for a new mast from Kenyon to fullfill his claim of selling you a "complete" boat. They should be able to quickly fabricate it to the correct measurements from their files. It sounds like providing the correct mast is a contractual obligation on his part that you should be able to enforce. Go for it.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[teresa24]

Mast

Hi Jim and everyone who's helped with advice, I will keep your dimensions and compare them to my boat and mast and spreaders...
I passed along the support of this site and my sailing friends in the community's concerns about not having a complete boat and I asked this seller to please do what he can to make this situation right or take my boat back. He got back to me this am and was very nice to me and offered to have a rigger at his expense put a mast together for my boat and bring it to my boat and put it together. I'm so relieved. I hope this works! If it is done by a professional, then I do not have safety to be concerned with - correct?
I will let you all know how it turns out next week.
I hopefully will be on the water then!
Sincerely,
Teresa

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

That's great news. Its nice to hear about someone stepping up and curing a problem without being forced into it. A professionally assembled mast to your boat's specifications is an optimum solution. I look forward to hearing about you and your family's adventures as you learn to sail your new boat.
Remember to get help as you need it in learning to sail.
Good luck and fair winds.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[seadaddler]

Great

Glad to hear the seller is coming to the plate to make things right,hopefully you and your kids will be sailing and enjoying your boat very soon.
You have a great area to sail in and it's great getting the kids into sailing young,I live in Florida now but did most of my sailing up on Long Island,NY.
Good luck and have fun this summer.
Nick

 

[petersea]

Teresa,
Glad your seller stepped up and is willing to work with you. To say the least you are fortunate he is willing to work with you. As far as the safety is concerned you still have a concern that the rigger does a professional job and while I don't expect you to be an expert maybe ask someone you trust to look it over. As a new boat owner you need to be able to trust the rigger to do it correctly, however I'm always a little skeptical when some one else is paying the bill, so double check it. Just having the mast up and boom up does not guarantee your sails will fit so make sure you mention this to the rigger because what ever mast he uses will have to have the correct dimensions for you sails. You are however a lot better off this week then you were a week ago.
Good Luck and keep us updated !

 

[brycemerrill]

Hope it's not too late. Here's some valuable contact info.

Okay, I hope this helps you. I had to replace my mast shortly after getting my 1993 Hunter 23.5 in 2006. Even if you don't have to replace yours, I'd call to get what ever advice I could because it's worth it. Hunter Marine uses Zspar (Gainesville, FL) for their masts and booms. I called to get a replacement, quoted $1,500 originally. I asked about any discounted deals, and was told about masts they could build from remnant spars. $700, they told me. What I got was amazing. Not only that but, 3 months later, my boat got clipped in the storage lot and totaled the mast. Another, ordered, at $700. I was happier with the first because they forgot to put in the spinnaker rig on this one, but still... The man I talked to had all the specs and the knowledge about my 23.5. His name was Julian (from New Zealand) and the number I have is-(386)462-3760. Give him a call. He will tell you what can work and what can't I'm sure of it.