Bottom paints

jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
dlochner said:
There is a little left over mess, kind of goes with the greasing anything territory, however it cleans up easily with a couple of paper towels. And once the grease tube is disconnected there is no leakage. I do store the gun part in a ziplock bag because there is a little grease that isn't easily removed.
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I have not had the good experience that Dave has with that grease gun they sell, and I returned mine. It was a mess, and couldn't pump the grease into mine. I was so disappointed to discover that the only recommended grease for the Maxprop, Lubriplate 130aa, is not available in grease gun tubes! I would have loved the product in the mini 3 oz. cartridges, same size gun I use for the outboard, windlass, etc. So, I had saved an old tube from something else and squirted in grease from one of the Lubriplate 10 oz. tubes. BTW, that Lubriplate is expensive, as grease goes! There's also, in my experience, a lot of waste in the process. I'm sure others have used regular marine grease, I wonder how that's worked out.

(Sorry for the long hijack!)
 
D

duality

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May 25, 2004
441
Catalina 400 mkII Harbor
Don Casey Replies
A: You cannot put any paint over VC 17 except more VC 17. Fortunately, it is a fairly easy paint to remove. What remains after a vigorous power wash can usually be removed with acetone, xylene or even denatured alcohol and a bag of rags. (You will need both skin and lung protection if you use these solvents.) It can also be sanded off, typically quite easily. Some yards won’t guarantee such work, because of the possibility of residual Teflon from the VC 17. However, in my experience, if you wipe with a solvent, sand and then wipe with solvent again, you are unlikely to have adherence problems. As for your paint choice, if you were happy with your experience with Micron CSC, that is as good a recommendation as you can get. Given the same conditions, there’s no reason it should not perform equally well on your new boat.
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
12,683
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
duality said:
Don Casey Replies
A: You cannot put any paint over VC 17 except more VC 17. Fortunately, it is a fairly easy paint to remove. What remains after a vigorous power wash can usually be removed with acetone, xylene or even denatured alcohol and a bag of rags. (You will need both skin and lung protection if you use these solvents.) It can also be sanded off, typically quite easily. Some yards won’t guarantee such work, because of the possibility of residual Teflon from the VC 17. However, in my experience, if you wipe with a solvent, sand and then wipe with solvent again, you are unlikely to have adherence problems. As for your paint choice, if you were happy with your experience with Micron CSC, that is as good a recommendation as you can get. Given the same conditions, there’s no reason it should not perform equally well on your new boat.
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In this case Don Casey doesn't know what he is talking about. If you have a small area to clean, say for a repair the solvent approach will work. However, if you the job is the whole bottom of a 40' boat, you had best be buying acetone by the 55 gallon drum and rags by the truck load. When the solvent is applied and wiped up, it smears and requires repeated soakings and wiping.

Sanding is the only way I found to remove VC 17 and it was not an easy job. In areas where the copper had built up, the sander first burnished it into copper sheet and then it was necessary to sand through the copper plate. I spent way too many hours under the boat with a sander. In the end I removed almost 5 gallons of sanding dust.

Even if the solvent method was effective the bottom would still need to be sanded before applying new barrier paint or antifouling.
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
12,683
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
fstbttms said:
Well, not exactly true...
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I think you need to look at your chart again. You have not highlighted VC 17. Under existing paints, it is in the far right column. Looking down that column the first 3 rows it says remove the VC 17.

The last row it says "light sand and apply." The paints listed in that row are all the same paints in the upper right hand corner.
 
fstbttms

fstbttms

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Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
dlochner said:
I think you need to look at your chart again. You have not highlighted VC 17. Under existing paints, it is in the far right column. Looking down that column the first 3 rows it says remove the VC 17.

The last row it says "light sand and apply." The paints listed in that row are all the same paints in the upper right hand corner.
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The highlighted areas of that chart were from a previous use and I didn't realize they were there when I posted it. They have no bearing on this conversation and my apologies for the confusion. But the point of my post is that there are multiple products that can be applied directly over VC17.
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
12,683
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
fstbttms said:
The highlighted areas of that chart were from a previous use and I didn't realize they were there when I posted it. They have no bearing on this conversation and my apologies for the confusion. But the point of my post is that there are multiple products that can be applied directly over VC17.
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That is a bit of an exaggeration. VC-17 and VC-17m are essentially the same paint. SR 21 is no longer in production although there is still some on the shelves. FW-21 is West Marines version of SR 21. These paints are all based on the same technology and designed for freshwater or very cold low fouling salt water.

VC Performance Epoxy is not an antifouling paint. It is a hard slick epoxy paint that dry sailors use to go faster. It does make cleaning the bottom easier.

VC Offshore is hard vinyl paint that racers use to reduce bottom fouling and because it divers can clean it easily.

Micron 66 is an antifouling paint that is suitable for saltwater but not freshwater. However at $400+ a gallon, it is quite expensive.

I could find no reference to VC-18 on the Interlux site. Perhaps it is not approved for use in the US?

So, for use in warm saltwater, the OP's stated intention, there are only 2 paints, one VC Offshore which seldom receives rave reviews and one very expensive solution, Micron 66, which would not be appropriate for use on Lake Ontario, should he decide to stay on the lake.
 
fstbttms

fstbttms

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Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
dlochner said:
So, for use in warm saltwater, the OP's stated intention, there are only 2 paints, one VC Offshore which seldom receives rave reviews and one very expensive solution, Micron 66, which would not be appropriate for use on Lake Ontario, should he decide to stay on the lake.
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Don Casey Replies
A: You cannot put any paint over VC 17 except more VC 17.

I was referring to the above. Nitpick all you like but this statement is simply incorrect.
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,537
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
fstbttms said:
That's because the compatibility chart you provided refers to Interlux products only. The one I posted includes products from a variety of manufacturers.
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Still, the West Marine chart says VC Offshore can go over VC-17, while the Interlux chart says it can’t. Not saying you’re wrong, I just find it interesting that West Marine’s chart differs from the manufacturer’s.
 
fstbttms

fstbttms

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Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
Davidasailor26 said:
Still, the West Marine chart says VC Offshore can go over VC-17, while the Interlux chart says it can’t. Not saying you’re wrong, I just find it interesting that West Marine’s chart differs from the manufacturer’s.
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I wonder if the formulation of one (or both) of these paints has changed, making them incompatible with each other.
 
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D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
12,683
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
fstbttms said:
Don Casey Replies
A: You cannot put any paint over VC 17 except more VC 17.

I was referring to the above. Nitpick all you like but this statement is simply incorrect.
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At the time of writing the last editions of his two major books, Casey was correct. There was no product on the market that could go over VC-17 except itself. The last edition of This Old Boat was published in 2009. All of Casey's comments needs to be placed in that context.

Although the charts say otherwise the product information says Micron 66 is developed for professional application and contains this warning about VC 17:

COMPATIBILITY
Do not use Micron 66 over VC®17m, soft, rosin based coatings such as Bottomkote®, ablative antifoulings such as Fiberglass Bottomkote® ACT or water-based paints such
as Micron Optima or Fiberglass Bottomkote® Aqua. Do not use Micron 66 with Fiberglass No Sand Primer YPA200. For a no-sand system call Interlux® Technical Service at 1-800-468-7589.
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The take home message here, especially for newer boat owners is that information becomes dated and sources need to be checked and verified. I think we can all agree there is too much bad, inaccurate, and misleading information in forums, even SBO. New boat owners look to the experience of others and rely on the information we provide, it is our responsibility to provide the most accurate information possible.

The answer to the OP's question about applying a different bottom paint over VC 17 that is suitable for saltwater, the most accurate answer is none. Don Casey is still correct correct.

Antifouling compatibility | International

Determine compatibility of your new antifouling
www.interlux.com www.interlux.com
 
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