Bottom paints

[Clay Smith]

My boats hull has what looks to me like a decent amount of bottom paint on it already. Its quite possible I will head down the Erie Canal in late summer or early fall this year maybe not. We will see how comfortable we are on the kmowledge we've gained when we near that time. So here are my questions, first off does the bottom paint you would use in fresh water differ from that of what you would use in salt water? Is it permissible to paint over a fresh water bottom paint with a salt water bottom paint? What kind of paints for fresh or salt water do you prefer ansd why? Also any other wisdom the reader might want to share with me would be very much appreciated.

 

[dlochner]

Clay, that is VC 17 a freshwater only bottom paint. It will not work in salt water. It is a favorite on the lake because it easy to apply, works, and is less expensive than most other bottom paints.

Now for the bad news, VC17 is a bear to remove. Chemical strippers don't work and it doesn't wear away very well. The only method to remove it is to spend lots of quality time with your sander and 40 grit or lower sand paper. No paint will adhere to VC17 because it is a thin slippery film with copper powder suspended in the film. I've been down this road, it is not fun and it was time consuming.

The shaft and prop anodes appear to be zinc. They need to be changed. Zinc does not work in freshwater. One of the problems with zinc is it forms a crust which electrically insulates it from the water. This renders it ineffective. If the boat is going to stay in freshwater, use a magnesium anode, if you do decide to go south this fall then install aluminum anodes which work in fresh, brackish, and salt water. BoatZincs.com has the best selection of zincs. For more information on how to properly install anodes, see the article linked below.

And while we're talking about props, your Max prop will probably need to be greased. It is an easy 10 minute job. Get the service kit from PYIinc.com.

Max-Prop Grease Kit

Keep your Max-Prop running like new with this Max-Prop Grease Kit! Comes with everything you need to complete the job.

store.pyiinc.com

Anode Installation - Best Practices - Marine How To

Anode Installation I recently came from a customer’s boat after doing a winterizing and while there I noticed the anode (zinc in this case) on the $3500.00 prop was not connected to anything, other than by friction. Sadly I see this far

marinehowto.com

 

[sailcapt340]

Just and observation and a question. Is the zinc on the shaft to close to the strut? I was always told and tell others that the zinc should be further up and away from the strut. Looking for clarification, thank you.

 

[dLj]

Just and observation and a question. Is the zinc on the shaft to close to the strut? I was always told and tell others that the zinc should be further up and away from the strut. Looking for clarification, thank you.

I don't know of a hard fast rule, but I agree that zinc looks too close. I don't see how it could matter from a sacrificial anode perspective, but from a mechanical perspective, I'd want at least a couple inches of space between the anode and the strut. I look forward to others comments on this one...

dj

 

[sailcapt340]

It will be interesting. I base it on water flow or lack of to the strut. Same for the location further up. There‘s a balance to be sure.

 

[Clay Smith]

Again you sailors are a wealth of knowledge I can’t tell you guys how much I appreciate you as a resource for my education. Question is
VC 17 toxic? Do I need any PPE other than goggles and a respirator or other breathing filter apparatus. 2nd question would be then is there a bottom paint that will works in salt water and fresh or should I just on plan putting her on the hard before I head south?

 

[dlochner]

Again you sailors are a wealth of knowledge I can’t tell you guys how much I appreciate you as a resource for my education. Question is
VC 17 toxic? Do I need any PPE other than goggles and a respirator or other breathing filter apparatus. 2nd question would be then is there a bottom paint that will works in salt water and fresh or should I just on plan putting her on the hard before I head south?

Almost everything on a boat is toxic to some extent or another. And some are much less toxic than is commonly believed, acetone is one such chemical.

If you plan to eventually take the boat south and into the ocean, don't bother adding more VC 17 that you will only be sanding off in a few months. And, some of the copper in the VC 17 will ablate off.

The issue I found with VC17 is in areas of high build up. Often the sander would simply burnish the copper turning it into a sheet of solid copper that needed to be sanded off. In high wear areas, the leading edge of the keel and rudder for example, the VC17 sanded off quickly. In the flat areas with less water flow it was a bear.

As for PPE, gloves are always a good idea when painting and using solvents. Likewise when sanding, N95 masks and a vacuum sander are good ideas. VOCs are a judgement call. Certainly if you are using a lot of them in a small enclosed space, i.e., inside the boat, a VOC respirator is a good idea. If nothing else the respirator will help prevent a headache the next day (as I remind myself every few years). Outside, with good air circulation, the respirator may be a bit overkill. It is a personal preference.

 

[Clay Smith]

Good observation on the location of the anode I would bet with my limited knowledge of the flow of electrons centered between the shaft seal (stuffing box) and the strut would be a much better location, but that’s a bet from Newbie.

 

[dlochner]

Good observation on the location of the anode I would bet with my limited knowledge of the flow of electrons centered between the shaft seal (stuffing box) and the strut would be a much better location, but that’s a bet from Newbie.

The issue is more about allowing sufficient water flow through the cutless bearing in the strut. The cutless bearing is water lubricated, which is why it has grooves cut into it. The stuffing box also relies on water flow, however the shaft anode has no affect on water flow there.

In fresh water aluminum and magnesium anodes have an effective radius of about 5'. In saltwater the anode has an effective radius measured in tens of feet.

 

[NYSail]

Moving the zinc has nothing to do with electrons….The zinc is too close to the strut which will cause water to not flow through the cutlass bearing that is located within the strut. Without good water flow the cutlass bearing will possibly get hot and wear fast which will cause issues with the shaft vibrations.

good luck!
Greg

 

[dLj]

2nd question would be then is there a bottom paint that will works in salt water and fresh or should I just on plan putting her on the hard before I head south?

I haven't seen anyone answer this question. Can't say I know the answer either really. I'd guess a good ablative paint would work for both but I'm not 100% sure. I'd probably check out the Petit Odyssey HD or something like that.

Again, here I look forward to others comments.

dj

 

[dlochner]

2nd question would be then is there a bottom paint that will works in salt water and fresh or should I just on plan putting her on the hard before I head south?

I haven't seen anyone answer this question. Can't say I know the answer either really. I'd guess a good ablative paint would work for both but I'm not 100% sure. I'd probably check out the Petit Odyssey HD or something like that.

There is no universal bottom paint. Most bottom paints will work in fresh water and salt water to a greater or lesser degree. There are many factors that contribute to bottom paint effectiveness, among them average water temperature, salinity, pollution, water currents, nutrients in the water, and on and on. Some paints work well in one area, but not another. In some areas bottom paints barely work at all (we're talking downtown St. Augustine).

There are articles on Practical Sailor about bottom paints and Jamestown Distributors do an annual survey that might give some insights. And on Lake Ontario there are folks who don't use bottom paint at all, they just pressure wast the crap off the bottom of the boat each fall. Zebra mussels are not as tenacious as barnacles.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Either the anode has come loose and slid down to the strut or the installer was smoking crack when he installed the anode. It looks like it's watertight. That will soon cause damage to the cutlass bearings due to a lack of water flow.

One reason to locate the anode a few inches from the strut is, should the shaft coupling ever become disconnected from the shaft (due to a lack of maintenance) the anode will prevent the shaft from firing out the shaft log.

 

[fstbttms]

There is no universal bottom paint.

Of course there is. Many, MANY examples. In fact (with very few exceptions), any paint marketed to saltwater boaters will work very well in freshwater. The only product I am aware of of which this is not true is Interlux Micron 66.

 

[sailcapt340]

I agree with Ralph, it looks as if the zinc may have slid down to the strut. Nobody really puts one in that spot on purpose….I hope.
But it does prove “there’s a knack to installing zincs”. It also prevents them from flying off while underway.
Clay, follow Mainesails (marinehowto) advice and you won’t go wrong.

 

[Tally Ho]

Clay, that is VC 17 a freshwater only bottom paint. It will not work in salt water. It is a favorite on the lake because it easy to apply, works, and is less expensive than most other bottom paints.

Now for the bad news, VC17 is a bear to remove. Chemical strippers don't work and it doesn't wear away very well. The only method to remove it is to spend lots of quality time with your sander and 40 grit or lower sand paper. No paint will adhere to VC17 because it is a thin slippery film with copper powder suspended in the film. I've been down this road, it is not fun and it was time consuming.

The shaft and prop anodes appear to be zinc. They need to be changed. Zinc does not work in freshwater. One of the problems with zinc is it forms a crust which electrically insulates it from the water. This renders it ineffective. If the boat is going to stay in freshwater, use a magnesium anode, if you do decide to go south this fall then install aluminum anodes which work in fresh, brackish, and salt water. BoatZincs.com has the best selection of zincs. For more information on how to properly install anodes, see the article linked below.

And while we're talking about props, your Max prop will probably need to be greased. It is an easy 10 minute job. Get the service kit from PYIinc.com.

Max-Prop Grease Kit

Keep your Max-Prop running like new with this Max-Prop Grease Kit! Comes with everything you need to complete the job.

store.pyiinc.com

Anode Installation - Best Practices - Marine How To

Anode Installation I recently came from a customer’s boat after doing a winterizing and while there I noticed the anode (zinc in this case) on the $3500.00 prop was not connected to anything, other than by friction. Sadly I see this far

marinehowto.com

Do those plastic tubes of grease screw onto the gun? That would be a clean set up…


Greg

 

[Rjm st.petersburg]

Yes they do screw into the gun. Just cut down the stem of the grease tube, great set up.

 

[dlochner]

Do those plastic tubes of grease screw onto the gun? That would be a clean set up…


Greg

Yep, the tube of grease screws into the gun. I didn't think it would work at first, but it does. Greasing the prop is really easy after the first time (isn't everything easier after the first time?).

Do get some extra allen screws and a zerk or two so when you drop one and can't find it you don't waste your time.

I always service the Maxprop in the fall for two reasons, to force any water in the gears out and it is one less thing to do in the spring.

 

[Tally Ho]

Yep, the tube of grease screws into the gun. I didn't think it would work at first, but it does. Greasing the prop is really easy after the first time (isn't everything easier after the first time?).

Do get some extra allen screws and a zerk or two so when you drop one and can't find it you don't waste your time.

I always service the Maxprop in the fall for two reasons, to force any water in the gears out and it is one less thing to do in the spring.

My grease gun (used for general lubrication of my JD tractor, rudder tube, etc) always leaks grease from the cartridge holder. This looks like a neat set up.


Greg

 

[dlochner]

My grease gun (used for general lubrication of my JD tractor, rudder tube, etc) always leaks grease from the cartridge holder. This looks like a neat set up.


Greg

There is a little left over mess, kind of goes with the greasing anything territory, however it cleans up easily with a couple of paper towels. And once the grease tube is disconnected there is no leakage. I do store the gun part in a ziplock bag because there is a little grease that isn't easily removed.