Bottom painting in a boat yard

[FourPoints]

What is the big deal with applying bottom paint at some marinas? I don't understand why they make such a big deal about it and impose so many restrictions. Scraping and sanding the bottom paint I can understand (that makes a huge mess if not done properly) but painting, done correctly, doesn't make any mess at all.

 

[fstbttms]

If you owned a boatyard and had the liability of allowing private individuals of unknown skill levels or experience to handle and apply pesticides (and that's what anti fouling paint is classified as), you'd enforce a few restrictions too.

 

[tommays]

While i think its a big joke when you consider what you can buy at any hardware store in NY a yard has to have a pesticide application license and a bunch of them use it as money maker

 

[fstbttms]

I don't typically defend boatyards, but as a small business owner I understand it. They have to jump through regulatory hoops to either paint boats themselves or allow the boat owner (or others) to do it. That all costs time, money and manpower. They ain't in business for their health.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Pragmatically I understand it. But when it happens at my marina that is when I move or sell the boat. I will never pay those ridiculous prices to have anti-fouling put on my boat.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Have you ever tried bottom painting (or any kind of painting or varnishing) in a yard when a guy comes along and starts sanding or prepping the bottom of his boat near or next to you? In our yard, you are now liable for the dust or particles you may create. I'm happy about most of the restrictions...

 

[FourPoints]

Have you ever tried bottom painting (or any kind of painting or varnishing) in a yard when a guy comes along and starts sanding or prepping the bottom of his boat near or next to you? In our yard, you are now liable for the dust or particles you may create. I'm happy about most of the restrictions...

scraping / sanding I understand for those and other reasons. I'm just talking about applying a coat or two of paint with a roller.


If the problem is that bottom paint is classified as a pesticide, why hasn't there been efforts to reclassify it (and if it's so bad, why are we allowed to buy it without permits)?

Last year I saw someone paint their boat without problem at my yard, this year I hear they are walking around for fresh paint and chargeing people that have (fresh) paint on their hull... I'm seriously considering splashing without painting, and finding a yard that will do a shorthaul instead of paying the yard I'm at.

 

[FourPoints]

I don't typically defend boatyards, but as a small business owner I understand it. They have to jump through regulatory hoops to either paint boats themselves or allow the boat owner (or others) to do it. That all costs time, money and manpower. They ain't in business for their health.

I am also a small business owner, I just don't understand why Marina's freak out when you paint your bottom, but don't care that you sand your bottom.

 

[Indysailor]

I wonder if it has to do with disposal? For instance, sand your boat and the dust is cast to the wind, but paint your boat and you've got cans, rollers, tarps, etc. to toss out. If they classify as pesticides, there are specific regulations about how they are to be disposed. Sounds a little odd to regulate one but not the other, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[gpd955]

I knew nothing about that stuff when I put the bottom paint on my first boat in a boatyard, which at the time we were allowed to do. When a returned a few days later to ready the boat for launching, I was told that the boat was not allowed to leave the yard until I picked up and properly disposed of every single stone that had even a drop of paint on it. They told me that the EPA fines are staggering, even when they find the smallest amount of antifouling not on a boat. They had recieved a fine a few years prior that was more than what I paid for that boat! Needless to say, I spent 6 hours on my hands and knees picking up stones so my boat could be released.

The boatyard that my current boat is in right now will only allow their staff or an outside company that is insured so that they do not incur any fines.

It is a shame since most sailors are sensitive to the environment...excepting those of us who were sensitive but too inexperienced to know any better!! ...and would make sure that the proper precautions are taken prior to painting. But in our world of over-litigation and over-regulation, I really can't blame some of these boatyards for not wanting to risk their business on the account of someone else's carelessness.

 

[peptobysmol]

If the problem is that bottom paint is classified as a pesticide, why hasn't there been efforts to reclassify it (and if it's so bad, why are we allowed to buy it without permits)?

Just wait. :cussing: :cussing: :cussing:

 

[FourPoints]

the yard my boat was in when I bought it had a no paint and no sanding without dust catcher policy. The no sanding without dust catcher policy they were pretty strict about (understandable), but the painting policy was enforced as this "use a tarp when you paint, if we find paint on the ground afterwards, you get fined $500"... splatter from the roller didn't count, actual paint spilled was what they looked for too. I thought that was a fair / reasonable policy, I actually cared about keeping things cleaned up there.

The yard I'm at now is so rude and shitty, I almost want to paint the bottom, and if they complain throw any leftover paint in their face. I don't plan to go back to the yard I'm at next winter..

 

[CalebD]

Are you at Brewers in Stamford?

 

[FourPoints]

Are you at Brewers in Stamford?

that's where the boat was when I bought it... I have been wintering in city island as Brewers charges almost 3 times more for winter storage than the marina city island does

 

[Joe]

First of all..... we don't haul out for the season around here so circumstances are quite different. Lay days for a 27 footer are $81... so when the boat comes out of the water there is a method to one's madness.

I resisted the neigboring boatyard's "purchase their paint" policy for many years.. preferring to sail 3 hours around to Shelter Island to a yard that allowed me to use my own paint.... so.. I saved like $75 on paint per gallon. Looking back... DUMB.

That yard ended up closing and I don't have the time luxury I had a few years back so I motored 5 minutes to the yard next to my marina... agreeing to pay the $175/gallon for the paint.

Guess What?...... it was a very good experience.. because the supply store in the yard was great. Your supplies are billed at the end and you can returned unused items... including paint.. for credit. Plus you save a lot of time from driving back and forth to an outside chandlery.... some 10 minutes away. The convenience was well worth it.

Four Points.... let your rage subside.. then do some analytical thinking... if you can return unused paint...and you can factor in any other convenience... it might not be so bad.

 

[Deadhead]

It's All About The Environment

I have a friend, a fellow engineer, who is in the environmental field. His corporate office is in Connecticut and his branch office is in NJ. Apparently both states have promulgated regulations that require every marina to develop a spill prevention & clean-up (SPC) plan. The owner of his company of his company saw this as a business opportunity and started developing the plans for marinas.

At least in NJ, the DIY boat owner in the yard must comply with the marina's SPC plan. Therefore, if the marina's plan states that they will use tarps under boats while being bottom painted then the boater, by extension, must comply with that requirement.

The marina where I winter sent out an e-mail back in February letting us all know that we needed tarps under the boats and dust collection systems on our sanders.

I work in the wastewater field and am constantly dealing with the NJDEP and its myriad of regulations. Enforcement is a big arm of the DEP and it generates significant revenues. If the marina industry is targeted by the Department then it falls upon us as boat owners to comply because any fines will surely be passed down in the form of increased dock fees.

 

[FourPoints]

if you can return unused paint...and you can factor in any other convenience... it might not be so bad.

supply your own paint = $25/ft per coat for them to paint
them supply paint = $35/ft per coat for them to paint

so I'm looking at $675 in labor per coat for them to paint the bottom, they don't even move the boat from where it sits, so it's not to factor a move fee to a special paint area. I know from past experience it takes one person just over 30 minutes to roll on a coat of paint, I want to put 2 coats of paint on... Calculated out that means I'd be paying about $1200 an hour, plus the cost of the paint... tell me that isn't unreasonable?

 

[FourPoints]

At least in NJ, the DIY boat owner in the yard must comply with the marina's SPC plan. Therefore, if the marina's plan states that they will use tarps under boats while being bottom painted then the boater, by extension, must comply with that requirement.

The marina where I winter sent out an e-mail back in February letting us all know that we needed tarps under the boats and dust collection systems on our sanders.

that is absolutly reasonable and fair, I see nothing wrong with that. I have tarps purchased specifically for bottom (scraping and) painting because the marina the boat was at when I bought it a little less than 3 years ago had that policy...

$1400 to paint the bottom however I am NOT ok with.

 

[Cool Beans]

Well, where I took my boat the cost for a bottom job is $26 a foot. No, it isn't worth doing it for my lil' boat. . .I did mine myself. . .took a couple hours for 2 coats. Where it does become a bargain is for those 55'-65' sport fishers that come in on a thursday and need to be out by friday afternoon so they can take out there weekend charters. . .or the 75 year old chap who has a 48' foot trawler. . .the yard manager will have 3-4 guys per boat knocking them out . . .

I can almost understand why marina owners might have a problem with DIY painting there bottoms. . .they carry all the responsibility and financial liability of your mess when the EPA guys come around, yet they make very little money off you for it since you do your own work :naughty:

Just my 2 cents :dance:

 

[woodster]

supply your own paint = $25/ft per coat for them to paint
them supply paint = $35/ft per coat for them to paint

so I'm looking at $675 in labor per coat for them to paint the bottom, they don't even move the boat from where it sits, so it's not to factor a move fee to a special paint area. I know from past experience it takes one person just over 30 minutes to roll on a coat of paint, I want to put 2 coats of paint on... Calculated out that means I'd be paying about $1200 an hour, plus the cost of the paint... tell me that isn't unreasonable?

that seems a little strong when compaired to $45.00 per boat foot ....this includes haulout,pressure wash,bolcking....bottom prep is hand sanding,rolling two coats of premium paint...and cleaning the prop,strut,shaft and drive train inspection.....

regards

woody