Like many of the people who watch this board, I have been in yachting a long time. And I have faithfully played the bottom paint game every year. That is, I shell out big bucks for one to two (currently two) gallons of super expensive anti-fouling paint, which fouls anyway. Petit Ultima SR, hard by the way. The last few years I have actually started paying a diver to clean the bottom mid season to minimize the fouling. So now I'm thinking about getting off this gravy train and painting the bottom every x years going forward. Now my question for all of you who care, what should x be? I sail New England waters and dock in very shallow, warm, brackish water in Point Judith Pond. I just can't see paying $200/gal for paint which fouls anyway. So what do you think?
Bottom Paint Challenge
- Thread starter Rick486
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Try another brand of bottom paint. Some bottom paints work better than others in specific boating areas. Ask your dock neighbors what they are using and how effective it is. Is your problem slime or hard growth? I've changed paints a few times until I found one I'm happy with. Been using Interlux Micron Extra for the past 6 years. It works good for slime in my area where the water is relatively warm for our northern location (Great South Bay Long Island NY) and never have any hard growth. I still do some light scrubbing along the waterline and because I race. If you don't use your boat much, many ablative paints loose some of their effectiveness. I would think that relying on a diver would be a last resort unless you are an avid racer. Hard bottom paint would be a must. Do you leave your boat in the water all year long? I would guess that "X" years depends on what your diver is using to clean the bottom. An aggressive shrub will remove more paint and quicker. I can't see why "X" can't be three years providing you start with two coats of paint.
For what it's worth. I'm in somewhat warm brackish waters also at the dock, and then Long Island Sound when underway. I used 3 coats of West Marine CPP+ (rebranded Interlux) previously and had nearly zero hard growth after 2 years, but plenty of soft growth for year 2.
I just repainted with West Marine PCA Gold (also rebranded Interlux) after pretty good reviews in practical sailor, I bought the paint this spring on sale for $125/gal. I'll let you know in December how it is doing.
I just repainted with West Marine PCA Gold (also rebranded Interlux) after pretty good reviews in practical sailor, I bought the paint this spring on sale for $125/gal. I'll let you know in December how it is doing.
Not sure about the "hard" requirement. While on my way to Florida I had a long stopover in NC. I took the opportunity to sand off several years of Trinidad SR(now $250.) and switched to two coats of a cheap WM ablative($110. this year). While in Florida the bottom was scrubbed every month. Now back home in Ohio after two years in the water there are very few thin spots. And it came out very clean.
Bottom Paint
Rick
We sail basically the same waters, I am in Mystic and I made a big change this year going from Micron CSC to Petit Hydrocoat which is a multiyear, water based ablative paint that sells for about $110 a gallon and has more copper than the Micron. While I can't attest to how well it performs, since we just launched last week, I need to say it went on very easy...no smell and I easily cleaned up with just water. It took two gallons for 2 coats on my H44. I have high expectations for performance based on the reviews that I have read.
Rick
We sail basically the same waters, I am in Mystic and I made a big change this year going from Micron CSC to Petit Hydrocoat which is a multiyear, water based ablative paint that sells for about $110 a gallon and has more copper than the Micron. While I can't attest to how well it performs, since we just launched last week, I need to say it went on very easy...no smell and I easily cleaned up with just water. It took two gallons for 2 coats on my H44. I have high expectations for performance based on the reviews that I have read.
I'd been doing our bottom every two years for many years. Because of a skiing accident, that frequency went up to five years. My diver said the paint was poor for the past two years! That means I could get three or four years from the 1 1/2 coats I give the boat when I have the bottom done.
While perhaps self serving, the diver suggested that regular (every three or four months) service would extend the life of our paint. We're back to using the boat regularly, and when we used to the use of the boat kept the bottom clean, as well as the diver.
My bottom paint was recommended by our boatyard for use in our waters and is used by most of the folks I know after having been through various other types. Different bottom paint for racers vs. cruisers, too.
Ask around, find what works in your area. Get a regular diver, (almost) regardless of how much you use your boat (unless it's daily - then you won't be there when the diver shows up!!!
).
While perhaps self serving, the diver suggested that regular (every three or four months) service would extend the life of our paint. We're back to using the boat regularly, and when we used to the use of the boat kept the bottom clean, as well as the diver.
My bottom paint was recommended by our boatyard for use in our waters and is used by most of the folks I know after having been through various other types. Different bottom paint for racers vs. cruisers, too.
Ask around, find what works in your area. Get a regular diver, (almost) regardless of how much you use your boat (unless it's daily - then you won't be there when the diver shows up!!!
).
You are in a very different climate/water area than me (and already posted Stu Jackson who in the same general SF Bay eco system). Our boats are in the water year round. But anyway, here's my experience:
I bought my 36' boat in June 2007. It was and had been on the hard for the previous 1-2 years according to the broker/boat yard. But prior to that, the existing bottom coat of hard modified epoxy type bottom paint had been in the water for about 1 year. The owner of the yard/brokerage declined my offer to pay him to do a new coat of bottom paint before splashing. He said I should be OK for a while.
Back in the water, once a month or so, I did my own bottom brushing with a stiff swimming pool brush on an extending pole. I also made some curve attachments to get to the undersides better. This I did for 30 months. Twice during the period I had a diver over for general inspection, change zincs, and to clean areas that I couldn't reach well like around the prop shaft. On the 31st (or so month), I did my usual brushing then I pulled out the boat over in Berkeley, CA. Aside from a little bit of grass around the cutlass bearing and the bottom of the keel, the bottom was really quite clean. (Pics attached.)
I've now got Pettit Trinidad on my hull. One year now in the water. I still brush frequently. The sections that I can see well, such as the bow area and my rudder, are still totally growth free. The slime brushes off easily each time. The hull is still the original blue.
I think the thing is, provided its a hard bottom paint and not ablative, if the bottom is brushed or rubbed routinely before marine growth can get a good grip, then you can go a lot longer than conventional thinking suggests.
Do you haul each winter? If so, the yard should clean with pressure washing immediately after the boat leaves the water. Then with a hard bottom paint and a few brushing/cleanings during the sailing season, why can't we go several years?
I bought my 36' boat in June 2007. It was and had been on the hard for the previous 1-2 years according to the broker/boat yard. But prior to that, the existing bottom coat of hard modified epoxy type bottom paint had been in the water for about 1 year. The owner of the yard/brokerage declined my offer to pay him to do a new coat of bottom paint before splashing. He said I should be OK for a while.
Back in the water, once a month or so, I did my own bottom brushing with a stiff swimming pool brush on an extending pole. I also made some curve attachments to get to the undersides better. This I did for 30 months. Twice during the period I had a diver over for general inspection, change zincs, and to clean areas that I couldn't reach well like around the prop shaft. On the 31st (or so month), I did my usual brushing then I pulled out the boat over in Berkeley, CA. Aside from a little bit of grass around the cutlass bearing and the bottom of the keel, the bottom was really quite clean. (Pics attached.)
I've now got Pettit Trinidad on my hull. One year now in the water. I still brush frequently. The sections that I can see well, such as the bow area and my rudder, are still totally growth free. The slime brushes off easily each time. The hull is still the original blue.
I think the thing is, provided its a hard bottom paint and not ablative, if the bottom is brushed or rubbed routinely before marine growth can get a good grip, then you can go a lot longer than conventional thinking suggests.
Do you haul each winter? If so, the yard should clean with pressure washing immediately after the boat leaves the water. Then with a hard bottom paint and a few brushing/cleanings during the sailing season, why can't we go several years?
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[/I]rardiH36;806585 [I said:
Thanks all for the responses, and yes, that is what I am thinkingh. Sometimes we just get in a rut of doing something repeatedly and we don't challenge why we are doing it. It seems like the bottom paint has become a ritual and with Petit SR at $250/gal, I am seriously challenging the idea of painting each year/. Several of my friends have gone to much less costly paint as described above, and their results over our 6-7 month season are indistinguishable from mine. And yes, we haul each fall up here. What really started me down this road is the trawler next to my slip is in her 5th season and never been painted except what was done by the dealer at purchase, and she stays in all year. The owner has her short hauled each summer after things quiet down at the yard and has her power washed, zincs done, etc. and touches up the paint where needed. Well, I have paint left over from last year (epoxy based Petet SR) so I'm going to thin that out and slap it on, planning to have my diver in mid-season for around $100 and see if I can get this year and next with no additional paint.
Thanks again for all your responses.
This is not "self-serving" advice. Your diver is basically correct. Relatively frequent, gentle cleanings will remove less paint (thereby extending the life of the paint) as opposed to less frequent, more abrasive cleanings. In the Bay Area, you should be having your hull cleaned every two months (every three or four months is not sufficient.) This not only will ensure the diver can always clean you hull with the softest media, but also means your boat will perform better under both power and sail, as your bottom will be cleaner more of the time. In addition, your fuel consumption and carbon emissions will be reduced. Yes, you will pay more in hull cleaning fees, but in the long run, you will save thousands in haulout/bottom painting costs. By cleaning 6 times/year as opposed to 4 times/year (or less, as is apparently the case for many of you), you can extend the typical bottom job's lifespan by a year or more. Check the math for 10 years of ownership of a 32' sailboat:
3-month schedule (painted every 2 years)
$2500 bottom job X 5 = $12,500
$72.00 hull cleaning (4 times/year X10) = $2880
Total expenditure (10 years) = $15,380
2-month schedule (painted every 3 years)
$2500 bottom job X 3 = $7500
$72.00 hull cleaning (6 times/year X10) = $4320
Total expenditure (10 years) = $11,820
Total savings- over $3500
Yes. However, there are ablatives, and then there are ablatives. All anti fouling paints benefit from gentle cleanings. But some ablatives are too soft to last for very long, regardless of the cleaning regimen. Petit Vivid and Micron 66 come to mind, for instance. The bottom line is (pun intended), keep the hull clean enough that an abrasive scrubber need never be used to remove the fouling growth. In the Bay Area, that means cleaning every other month. This will extend the life of your anti fouling paint, regardless of which type you use.
Check with Super Ship Bottom
Check with Super Ship Bottom paints located in Fl. I switched this last summer, after using Trinidad and SR for years. Could get three years or a little more from it, but the price is just outlandish. Super Ship Bottom folks were wonderful to deal with, and basically guaranteed me three years out of it, at less than half the price. It is a hard ablative, and I would give them a call and ask about your area.
Check with Super Ship Bottom paints located in Fl. I switched this last summer, after using Trinidad and SR for years. Could get three years or a little more from it, but the price is just outlandish. Super Ship Bottom folks were wonderful to deal with, and basically guaranteed me three years out of it, at less than half the price. It is a hard ablative, and I would give them a call and ask about your area.
Previously I used west marine cpp plus, it rubbed/washed off on everything that touched the bottom, any lines that slipped overboard while coiling invariably came up with blue on them. I just switched to west marine pca gold. What is your professional opinion of each of these paints durability (not asking about effectiveness, I know your experience in SF bay may not be valid on LIS)?fstbttms said:
CPP is a softer paint and is basically very similar to Pettit Ultima SSA (single season ablative) or as my local Pettit rep refers to it "Super Soft Ablative".
PCA Gold is essentially a slightly tweaked Pettit Ultima SR 40. It will be slightly harder and last longer than CPP but ablatives in general are soft and even PCA Gold or SR 40 will come off on sheets that rub the bottom. I have used PCA Gold and my only complaint is a gallon will not do my boat but a gallon of SR-40 will. I am guessing the SR-40 is ever so slightly thinned when compared to PCA Gold thus the ability to do our boat with one gallon.
I used hot coated Pettit Horizon's year one after the bottom job, then Ultima SR-40 with biocide on year two. They both perform very well for me but my main goal is to not have paint build up and I can get about a season+ out of one coat of SR-40 or Horizons. Horizons & Ultima are basically the same but Horizons lacks the biocide.
We don't see many single-season ablatives like CPP here, so I can't give you any useful information about it. The other paint you mentioned, PCA, seems like a decent enough paint. It's not one of the ablatives I would recommend, but it has a typical copper for a multi-season ablative content and has a a typical durability as well. Nothing to write home about.
Take a look at Coppercoat, from the UK but available in the U.S.. They claim 7-10 years protection. Feedback from the UK is impressive. I had it applied to my new 46 ft cat and am very happy with it so far (and I boat in tropical waters), but I have only had the boat for 9 months so that does't really count.
http://coppercoat.com/
http://coppercoat.com/
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