Bottom job on a shoe string budget
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When you say bottom job what is your definition? Just paint? Complete strip, fair & barrier coat then paint..?? Haaahd tellin', naht knowin'...
Remove paint with a carbide edge scraper, fill with thickened epoxy, sand, apply barrier coat, paint with antifouling paint. See the link below from when I did my Pearson 28.
http://www.treilley.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album08
http://www.treilley.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album08
I agree with what Tim said. You said strip & paint though so this means you plan on not barrier coating? What is your working budget? Do you want to go with ablative paint or hard?
I think he just wants to know the cheapest way. Haul out, power wash, scrape, sand, paint and supplies. Right ?
Yup that's what I did on my O'Day 34, except I paid to have the bottom paint removed using the Farrow system. Not having that it would have been a board with some 30 grit mesh and lots of elbow grease.
Do you move the supports one at a time from one spot to another during each step of the finishing proecss?
Not meaning to Hijack.... Question to Ross... Is on topic
Ross,
What was your lime to lye ratios and how did you use it? I think this may be a good add on to this thread. Cheap home made stripper... What paints does it work on? I used Easy-Off oven cleaner to remove the old painted name from my boat and it worked like a charm.
Nik
Ross,
What was your lime to lye ratios and how did you use it? I think this may be a good add on to this thread. Cheap home made stripper... What paints does it work on? I used Easy-Off oven cleaner to remove the old painted name from my boat and it worked like a charm.
Nik
The important thing for saving dollars is to do it yourself !! Decide what actually needs to be done.. versus what would be nice. In your part of the world, your boat probably is in the water year-round?.. Find out if you have ablative or hard bottom paint and go back with the same type..(stripping for one more job is normally not necesary if you go back with the same type paint) If the paint is getting pretty thick, plan for the stripping before the next bottom job. If you don’t have the experience, talk to trusted dockmates or other people in that marina for hints. If the job is to replace bottom paint only, a light sanding and new paint on a borrowed trailer may be the ticket. You may have to devise a way to support the boat on the trailer temporarily to paint under the bunks. Scope out the nearest car wash or rent a HP water sprayer before pulling the boat so that you can get the blasting done before the gook dries on the hull.. If you are lucky enough to have a boatyard that will allow DIY, go there and be sure to get it pressure blasted as soon as it comes out of the water.. Recruit some trusted buddies to help.. offer day sails and/or liquid enticements (to be consumed after the work is done).. After the sanding, take pictures and make notes so that you know what is in store for the next bottom job.. inspect the thru-hulls .. inspect the keel attachment.. prop, shaft, skeg, replace zincs .. GOOD LUCK on the job
Peel Away
Peel Away is available from Home Depot. Please search the forums for it and you will find a lot of info regarding different types. Suffice to say you want to avoid the ones with solvents and stay with the ones based on base (sodium and/or potassium hydroxide). Much easier than creating your own cocktail and since you have a small boat how much money can you really save by doing so?
Peel Away is available from Home Depot. Please search the forums for it and you will find a lot of info regarding different types. Suffice to say you want to avoid the ones with solvents and stay with the ones based on base (sodium and/or potassium hydroxide). Much easier than creating your own cocktail and since you have a small boat how much money can you really save by doing so?
Suit up first! Coveralls, gloves and face shield.
Lye comes in one pound cans and I would desolve that in two quarts of cold water (the water gets warm when you add the NaOH) use a two gallon pail add lime to make a paste about the consistancy of tooth paste. Trowel it on to the paint thickly(at least an 1/8 inch) and cover it with freezer paper. Wait over night and with water hose in one hand and wide razor scraper in the other hand remove the residue. A can of lye cost less than $2 and 50 pounds of hydrated lime is less than $10. Two gallons of peelaway is about $30.
Best to make the decision
It's best to make the decision on how you remove the old paint, till you see the old paint. If it's an ablative, it is probably not built up and the ablatives are fairly easy to remove. Some get away with pressure washing most of the ablative off. If it is a hard paint, and built up pretty thick, then most, if not all of it needs to come off. If the existing paint is flaking and coming off in places, then most of it has to come off. The fastest, cheapest and easiest way is probably to get yourself a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder, with a 7" adapter and a medium grit sanding pad. If you use a chemical stripper, you must as stated, protect yourself totally. If sanding, you can get away with a respirator. Also, be sure if you don't want to have to take it all the way to the gel coat, that you have a paint that is compatible with whats on there now.
It's best to make the decision on how you remove the old paint, till you see the old paint. If it's an ablative, it is probably not built up and the ablatives are fairly easy to remove. Some get away with pressure washing most of the ablative off. If it is a hard paint, and built up pretty thick, then most, if not all of it needs to come off. If the existing paint is flaking and coming off in places, then most of it has to come off. The fastest, cheapest and easiest way is probably to get yourself a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder, with a 7" adapter and a medium grit sanding pad. If you use a chemical stripper, you must as stated, protect yourself totally. If sanding, you can get away with a respirator. Also, be sure if you don't want to have to take it all the way to the gel coat, that you have a paint that is compatible with whats on there now.
Hi, Tim. What kind of epoxy did you use to fill in ? Would MARINETEX be a good thing to use for filling in small blisters and scratches?
I got my boat late in the fall, so the outside temps were in the 40-s. Peelaway worked ok only in higher temp ranges, but once it got cold - peelaway didn't do a darn thing. I only managed to do a rudder and 1/2 of the bottom on my E27. Have to wait until spring comes... What barrier coat did you use, how many coats?
Thanks,
Mac
I got my boat late in the fall, so the outside temps were in the 40-s. Peelaway worked ok only in higher temp ranges, but once it got cold - peelaway didn't do a darn thing. I only managed to do a rudder and 1/2 of the bottom on my E27. Have to wait until spring comes... What barrier coat did you use, how many coats?
Thanks,
Mac
Some thoughts.
1- My preferred tool for hand scraping is razor blades in one of those auto type holders with a screw driver end. Blades are cheap and when they dull you throw in a new one. Once you get the hang of it it zips right along. The bulk of our 36 footer was scraped in an afternoon using razor blades. A good quality carbide scraper works too but sharpening the blades gets to be a pain and if you are buying new ones expensive.
2- Sanding also works but is MESSY and most any yard will require you to use a dustless sander connected to a vacuum. You'll want a Tyvek suit and a full face respirator. That dust can really begin to iratate your skin and eyes if they are not fully protected. Even if your yard does not require dustless sanding (I think it is now a law) you may get some nasty comments from other boat owners whose boats you just made a horrible mess of. The yard I am in booted a guy for not using a dustless sander after complaints from about ten boat owners who got covered in blue dust. Sand paper gets expensive and hard bottom paint chews it up rather quicklys o scrape the majority then sand what's left.
3- No matter what you will still need to sand after scraping. Scraping gets the majority but for fairing and filling you'll still need a sander. A 5" RO connected to a vaccuum should last about a bottom job or two before you burn up the bearings. I would recommend Rigid as they have a lifetime warranty. Kill the bearings with copper paint and they'll replace it.
4- The bigger 6" & 7" models from Porter Cable and others will make faster work but the paper and the sander will cost more.
5- If not barrier coating I would avoid microbaloons as an epoxy filler for use below the waterline and instead opt for Coloidal Silica (also known as Aerosil, Cabosil etc.). Using Marine Tex is a VERY, VERY expensive way to fill and fair. Marine Tex is nothing more than pre-mixed epoxy at exorbitant prices. Buy the West Systems, System Three or MAS epoxy kits then your fillers of choice. Cabosil is harder to sand but completely waterproof. For easier sanding you can also mix the cabosil with some milled fibers. 3M also makes a pre-mixed vinylester blister repair and below waterline fairing / filling compound. I think it is now called "Premium Marine Filler" it comes in a green & white can. You don't want to use Bondo or a polyester fairing compound as it will absorb water. Msot of the pre-made polyester fairng compounds use microbaloons which will absorb water..
6- The marine strippers work, but get expensive, are temperature sensitive, and IMHO don't really save that much time. Be very, very careful with strippers as some can actually soften the gelcoat. I would suggest using a stripper rated as safe for gelcoat.
7- There are lots of paints but after doing this huge job you'll likely want to apply a good ablative paint. If you are in an area where you haul and re-launch be sure to get a haul/launch capable ablative, not all are. Most hard paints become ineffictive after haulout. Good ablatives can be hauled, stored for the winter then and re-launched and still be effective. My boat will not even get paint this spring as to avoid build up. Often less expensive hard paints wind up costing more because you need to paint each year after a haul out. With a good ablative you may only need to paint every two sometimes three years, so don't let the initial cost fool you as it is often a false economy.
8- If applying an ablative it is a good idea to use a tracer coat of a contrasting color. If you want a red bottom do your first coat with blue or green then go over it with red. When the blue or green starts to show through touch those areas up with red but don't paint the other areas that are not thin. Doing so avoids paint build up that will lead back to another bottom job.
9- If using an ablative use one that ablades or begins wearing away at low speeds. Pettit Horizons, Hydrocoat and Ultilma lines all begin to ablade at about 3 knots..
P.S. The best advice so far is for the Ibuprofen...
1- My preferred tool for hand scraping is razor blades in one of those auto type holders with a screw driver end. Blades are cheap and when they dull you throw in a new one. Once you get the hang of it it zips right along. The bulk of our 36 footer was scraped in an afternoon using razor blades. A good quality carbide scraper works too but sharpening the blades gets to be a pain and if you are buying new ones expensive.
2- Sanding also works but is MESSY and most any yard will require you to use a dustless sander connected to a vacuum. You'll want a Tyvek suit and a full face respirator. That dust can really begin to iratate your skin and eyes if they are not fully protected. Even if your yard does not require dustless sanding (I think it is now a law) you may get some nasty comments from other boat owners whose boats you just made a horrible mess of. The yard I am in booted a guy for not using a dustless sander after complaints from about ten boat owners who got covered in blue dust. Sand paper gets expensive and hard bottom paint chews it up rather quicklys o scrape the majority then sand what's left.
3- No matter what you will still need to sand after scraping. Scraping gets the majority but for fairing and filling you'll still need a sander. A 5" RO connected to a vaccuum should last about a bottom job or two before you burn up the bearings. I would recommend Rigid as they have a lifetime warranty. Kill the bearings with copper paint and they'll replace it.
4- The bigger 6" & 7" models from Porter Cable and others will make faster work but the paper and the sander will cost more.
5- If not barrier coating I would avoid microbaloons as an epoxy filler for use below the waterline and instead opt for Coloidal Silica (also known as Aerosil, Cabosil etc.). Using Marine Tex is a VERY, VERY expensive way to fill and fair. Marine Tex is nothing more than pre-mixed epoxy at exorbitant prices. Buy the West Systems, System Three or MAS epoxy kits then your fillers of choice. Cabosil is harder to sand but completely waterproof. For easier sanding you can also mix the cabosil with some milled fibers. 3M also makes a pre-mixed vinylester blister repair and below waterline fairing / filling compound. I think it is now called "Premium Marine Filler" it comes in a green & white can. You don't want to use Bondo or a polyester fairing compound as it will absorb water. Msot of the pre-made polyester fairng compounds use microbaloons which will absorb water..
6- The marine strippers work, but get expensive, are temperature sensitive, and IMHO don't really save that much time. Be very, very careful with strippers as some can actually soften the gelcoat. I would suggest using a stripper rated as safe for gelcoat.
7- There are lots of paints but after doing this huge job you'll likely want to apply a good ablative paint. If you are in an area where you haul and re-launch be sure to get a haul/launch capable ablative, not all are. Most hard paints become ineffictive after haulout. Good ablatives can be hauled, stored for the winter then and re-launched and still be effective. My boat will not even get paint this spring as to avoid build up. Often less expensive hard paints wind up costing more because you need to paint each year after a haul out. With a good ablative you may only need to paint every two sometimes three years, so don't let the initial cost fool you as it is often a false economy.
8- If applying an ablative it is a good idea to use a tracer coat of a contrasting color. If you want a red bottom do your first coat with blue or green then go over it with red. When the blue or green starts to show through touch those areas up with red but don't paint the other areas that are not thin. Doing so avoids paint build up that will lead back to another bottom job.
9- If using an ablative use one that ablades or begins wearing away at low speeds. Pettit Horizons, Hydrocoat and Ultilma lines all begin to ablade at about 3 knots..
P.S. The best advice so far is for the Ibuprofen...
if you have a trailer for that boat is easiest and cheapest way to haul her out----goood luck--an alternative for cheapest way is to careen her somewhere but then you donot have access to all the bells and whistles ......... LOL......
Cheapest?
I bought a 25 footer for $1000 five years ago. From necessity, work on her the first year transformed from a restoration approach to a practical approach, as I needed to launch her at a particular time and it took me a while to learn quite a few new things that spring. I had always planned on doing the bottom, but it never happened. I kept putting ablative on and kept sailing. On a per dollar basis, nobody was having more fun that I was. At the end of the three years the ablative and other bottom paint was starting to chip a lot. At that point it is time to consider stripping, because the paint literally won't stay on the boat anymore LOL. But barring that, the cheapest way is to just keep painting.
The cheapest is to find the cheapest gallon of ablative paint you can buy, scrape off the loose stuff with a hook scraper then close your eyes to the imperfections and paint. You don't have to strip the paint every year. Most boats probably don't get stripped every 20 years. Ablative with go over essentially any paint that is on there already. A clean bottom will make your boat faster, its true, but if you are a beginner it isn't going to help you significantly and you can focus on other things on your fixer upper the first year.
I bought a 25 footer for $1000 five years ago. From necessity, work on her the first year transformed from a restoration approach to a practical approach, as I needed to launch her at a particular time and it took me a while to learn quite a few new things that spring. I had always planned on doing the bottom, but it never happened. I kept putting ablative on and kept sailing. On a per dollar basis, nobody was having more fun that I was. At the end of the three years the ablative and other bottom paint was starting to chip a lot. At that point it is time to consider stripping, because the paint literally won't stay on the boat anymore LOL. But barring that, the cheapest way is to just keep painting.
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