Boss stereos sold by Defender

Padrone · Feb 22, 2016

www.bossaudio.com/

CharlzO · Feb 22, 2016

More entry level ish, but ok for the price. Used to sell their car line a while back, never had any major issues. The displays were never top of the line, but then again neither was their price. Not sure how the marine versions are tho

Benny17441 · Feb 22, 2016

Bose components are top of the line, regarding Boss I don't know them but to use a name so close in a similar product does not seem very ethical as it might mislead buyers. To me it raises a red flag and would pass on it just because I do not like doing business that way. You are doing good in checking them out, good luck.

woodster · Feb 22, 2016

i am not a fan of that brand have had some dealings with it and don't really care for them ...so much so i would go to wally world and get a ken-wood or some other brand just not boss

edit....if you have one and are happy with it i am happy for you i just don't like there support ...they will sell you anything you want but will not commit to tech support any stronger than plug and play

Bosman · Feb 22, 2016

Used to have their subwoofer, amplifier and component speakers in a car many years ago....worked fine.

philwsailz · Feb 23, 2016

chuckwayne said:
Has anyone used one of the Boss radios Defender sells? I'm looking for a replacement sound system and Boss has one that has Bluetooth, AM/FM, a CD player, plus audio and USB input ports at a really good price. Lots of output power and a remote too. But I've never heard of or seen that brand...

I'll reserve comment on the quality of this particular unit, but I do want to jump on something... "Lots of output power" is the thing I want to hop on a soapbox about for just a few minutes. I see that statement far too often, and it is often the deciding factor for an individual's purchase decision of radio X over radio Y. This is a bad decision. Here is why:

It appears that you probably are talking about the Boss MCK1308WB package. For the sake of this exercise lets just assume so. They claim an output power of 50 x 4.
First, Ohm's Law says that Power is the product of Current multiplied by Voltage. P=IV. We know V, and it is around 12 volts. You can get higher with the engine running at a decent RPM, as charging is often spec'd at 14.4V. For simplicity's sake lets just use 12 for our voltage. It's a sailboat for crying out loud! We aren't going to be running that engine!

Going to the Boss website and to that particular package we can see a closeup of the unit in several shots, including the rear. On the back of the radio is a 15A fuse. Let's assume that the radio is pulling exactly 15A but no more AND that the fuse is not going to blow.

With Ohm's law we can see that Power is going to be equal to 15x12. Wait? That equals 180... How can we get 200 Watts out of a device that can only consume 180? It must be MAGIC!!!!

Actually, fuses are put on as major event protection, like a shorted output device. The fuse on a radio is often sized at 150% to prevent it from blowing under normal operation, usually at about 10A. So lets assume for this exercise you will pull a peak normal current of 10A. That means the radio will normally consume 120 Watts of power when operating normally at about full volume.

Now lets dig a little deeper. We know we need power to operate the lighting behind the display. We need power to charge any USB device connected, we need power to make the tuner work. All of the stuff the radio does just to operate has to come from the total power consumed so that theoretical max of 120 watts will not go fully to the speakers. It will be some lower number. Still that is messy math, so lets leave it out. Just know that you won't get all 120 watts to the amplifier's IC output devices.

The output devices, the little amplifier output IC chips are virtually all Class A/B devices. Class A/B outputs are typically no more than about 60% efficient. The rest of the power provided to the output amps is converted into heat. The average efficiency of a Class A/B IC output device is really around 50%. So, if we can get all 120 watts into the output chip(s) the 120 Watts of power is cut in two, half going to the speakers, (60W) and the other half, (60W) going into the heatsink as heat...

60 watts of audio power, to be divided by 4 speakers. 60/4=15.... 15...... What is the fuse size? 15

Based on that, this pretty simple statement can be taken as basic truth:

"For any 12-volt radio, marine, car, or powersports radio or head unit, (regardless of what the marketing materials tell you) the power output to each speaker is not going to differ much from the current value of the provided power fuse"

The point in all of this is that the printed information on every radio regarding its power is pretty much BS. It is a WLS number... When Lightning Strikes... The public inadvertently falls victim as they cant get from what is printed on the box to what we can measure on the speaker wiring to figure out if the advertising statement is true or not. This is why I went through the exercise in math above. Unfortunately, this "peak power output" call-out is universal; all head unit brands do it. It is all lies that the marketing folks want you to blindly believe. Often the biggest liar with the largest number wins. Great ethics huh?

A radio with a 15A fuse is probably not going to make more than 15 watts per speaker. A radio with a 10A fuse is probably not going to make more than 10 watts per speaker or 40 watts total. A radio with only a 5A fuse probably needs to stay on the shelf. At the flea market....

I'll step down from the soapbox now...

Armed with this knowledge understand that all radios really have about the same power output so do yourself a favor and focus the LEAST on output power. Don't let the biggest liar cause you to buy his product...

Maine Sail · Feb 23, 2016

philwsailz said:
A radio with a 15A fuse is probably not going to make more than 15 watts per speaker. A radio with a 10A fuse is probably not going to make more than 10 watts per speaker or 40 watts total. A radio with only a 5A fuse probably needs to stay on the shelf. At the flea market....

Not a soap box at all the lies in the car audio market have exceeded epic level. Even if you assume 15W keep in mind this is usually rated on an absolute peak at a very easily driven frequency not 20Hz to 20kHz. My rule of thumb has always been that for a cleanish output from a car deck expect no more than about 4-8W nominal.... If we want to talk peak blips, which is not what we listen to, then sure 15W is doable....

Those claims by Boss are complete lies, but, quite typical. IMHO that unit is at best a 4-8 watt unit if you use any sort of "legitimate" wattage rating system.

This is what a 2 channel 80 watt per channel amplifier really looks like. It weighs 71 pounds and requires its own dedicated 20A outlet on AC power...

This is what a "250W" chip amp looks like. They are found in most car in-dash stereos. It is about the size of a quarter and weighs about the same as a dime.

When it comes to car and marine stereos the "wattage" ratings are as useless as boobs-on-a-bull.... I mean really how many hundreds of pounds of lies can we cram into a 2 pound bag.....

Ken Cross · Feb 23, 2016

Speaker output power:
It's interesting you brought this up because it appears to me that all consumer electronics claims of this type are false. If you have ever used an audio watt meter you would notice that 5 watts of actual sound will hurt (read that damage) your ears in an average size room. It's a joke to consider the huge numbers touted in brochures as valid. If you really want to know what it sounds like, you need to listen to it. I also notice similar specification issues with total harmonic distortion which should be the gold standard. These untruthful specs also exist in many other areas where people get fooled in the electronics industry. If you go to any kind of trade show where the manufacturers reps are present and ask them, you will get a reply that is technically wrong or useless. Fish finder output power is a classic example.

The only exception I've measured is radio transmitter power specs don't seem to be off by more that a small amount.

Ken

philwsailz · Feb 23, 2016

Ken, we may be blurring the lines here a little.... maybe? Heck, since we are already hijacking this thread we might as well make it good...

Are you talking about a speaker's power output? Output from the speaker measured in watts? If so, your statement about 5 watts in an average room might be true.

However in the AV business, (my profession) none of us ever talk about the output of a speaker in terms of Watts. The output of any acoustic device, particularly a loudspeaker for audio playback is measured in dB, referenced to some electrical input power, (usually 1 Watt) measured at some distance, (usually one meter).

The electrical power going into the speaker is absolutely measured in watts. Actually, you can't measure electrical Watts directly, but rather you measure the voltage and knowing the resistance, (or impedance for an AC signal like for a loudspeaker) and plug the measured voltage and measured impedance into the equation P=V^2/R. The company I currently work for makes 12-volt amplifiers, as well as full range speakers and component subwoofers, and yes, we have amplifiers that will deliver thousands of watts, into a fairly standard 2-ohm load. We currently have an amplifier that operates into a 1/2-ohm load, and we have in the past manufactured 10,000-Watt power amplifiers. No kidding. 5 watts of electrical output from an audio amplifier is a very small amount of power. Think headphone amplifier, and even at that, a fairly small low-powered headphone amp...

Not all 12-volt audio components are saturated in snake oil either. There is a codified standard that exists for the large outboard amplifiers, specifically CEA2006. It states, standardizes, and codifies specific test criteria in order to give the consumer a better look at power outputs of competitive products. CEA2006 standardizes the input voltage, program material, load, (impedance) distortion level, etc. CEA2006 power output numbers are RMS power, within the guidelines set by the standard, as opposed to "peak" power. When shopping for an outboard amp to put between your radio and speaekrs, you can use CEA2006 performance data, (usually published on the carton) to better compare similar products from different brands, AND to make sure you are buying the proper-sized amplifier for your speakers, (and vice versa). Alas, none, (or very few) of the head units are spec'd at CEA2006, even from brands where the large amplifiers are spec'd out using CEA2006.

I know I want more than 5 watts to drive my theater speakers....

I have 400 watts going into each stereo speaker on either side of my TV... Not that there is anything wrong with that.....

Ken Cross · Feb 23, 2016

Sorry guys about the thread hijacking.

I'm referring to a commercial audio wattmeter I used to use. You connect it and select an impedance and it reads the output. Yes I am speaking about audio into a speaker. Using small 6x9 speaker it will fill the room to the point of discomfort and ringing ears. I do know there are speakers that create heat which deletes some of the output requiring a bit higher input to make nice sound. What I'm referring to is the proliferation of specifications that are impossible. As someone pointed out, you will never get out more power than you put into it. I am aware that there are lots of amplifiers that do what the suppliers say, but I've not seen any in the consumer market. In fact at our church I use a 6 channel amp where a 200 watt output (actually 2 ganged 100 watt outputs) is way more than we need in the sanctuary which has way more cubic feet of space than any home much less a boat. I've never even tried to measure the sound level because it's too uncomfortable to be in there when it's crankin.

Now I'll be quiet.
Ken

Gene S · Feb 23, 2016

Audio watts is different than watts powering the radio. You can't compare them directly.

Benny17441 · Feb 23, 2016

If you are going to be mounting the radio in a dry location just purchase a Sony or Kenwood automotive unit. For around $100 you get a decent sounding and reliable radio with hook up for front (cockpit) and rear (cabin) speakers and even Blue Tooth and remote control. Would not trust the marine qualities of a cheap radio that relies on brand name confusion to sell units.

philwsailz · Feb 23, 2016

Chucwayne.

Damn dude!!! 480???

What do you do as a profession? I have to guess FOH stadium audio???

Emerging marine audio technology is showing up from veteran 12-volt manufacturers including Kicker, Clarion, JL, Rockford Fosgate, and relative newcomer Wetsounds. We could certainly add to the list with a few names, but these brands are leading the charge in high-quality marine audio solutions for the total system, head units, amps, speakers, and subwoofers.

Beyond these brands you will group the rest of the marine radios into two categories. Including traditional Japanese car audio suppliers and global price-point brands.

Your boat your call. You get what you pay for. My dad often told me this: the most expensive and time consuming projects you attack are usually the ones you tackle with a penny-pincher's budget. Do it once. Do it right.

Daveinet · Feb 24, 2016

Something not really made clear is the difference between peak power and average power. To achieve an average power of 10 or 15 watts, you need a good 100 to 150 watts of headroom. Many sounds have transients that to reproduce accurately taking a surprising amount of power. I remember Carver talking about trying to accurately reproduce the snip sound of a pair of scissors without clipping. Off the top of my head, I think it was somewhere around 300 watts on an average efficiency speakers.
And while we are on the subject of speaker inefficiency, in low power systems, that is a number worth paying attention to. I remember having a discussion with my old roommate when I was fresh out of college. He was a big Polk audio fan, which he was planning to buy, to go along with his Carver 1.5, which was good for around 700 watts per channel into 4 ohms. I explained to him that the Cerwin Vegas I was planning to buy would achieve the same sound pressure level as his Polks would on a 100 watt amp. Why? Because the Polk's efficiency was somewhere around 85 db @ 1 w at 1 meter. My Vegas were 102 db @ 1w/1m. For ever 3 db of increase in SPL, you need to double the amplifier output. Needless to say, my former roommate ended up with the same Vegas as I had. I eventually did end up with a Carver, which was good for around 500 watts per ch. I've measured sustained levels of 110 db at 10 feet playing Telarc's recording of Toccata and Fugue. Speaker fficiency is one of those things people pay little attention to, even though it can make a huge difference in amp requirements. Not to mention, as a general rule, the more efficient the speakers are, the better transient response they will have, as a result of the more direct coupling of the electrical signal to the mechanical motion of the speaker. Typically anything in the mid-90s is going to be considered efficient.

SEMPERAVANTI41 · Feb 24, 2016

Installed Boss head unit in cockpit under plastic cover. Removed faceplate when not in use. Unit worked for 2 seasons, then died. Was marked "marinized".

Ken Cross · Feb 24, 2016

I started a new thread for the audiophiles
Ken

Joetech · Feb 24, 2016

My c22 I owned a few years ago had a Boss head unit. Worked fine. As CharzO said the displays aren't the best, but you get what you pay for. Power ratings are completely overblown by marketing and often refer to "peak power' which is meaningless. Efficiency of the speakers in most important and someone else pointed out. I am something of an audiophile and I have designed, build and modified several speaker over the years and built a couple of tube amps. My 8 watt tube amp will drive a pair of very efficient JBL's to over 90dB. Yes, I have a dB meter and did measure at 1 meter.
If you are mounting this in the cabin, no need for a 'Marine' unit. These are just the auto units with a conformal coating on the boards and o'rings around any knobs. The conformal coating just means more heat and early failure.
My current boat a C27 had an old automotive (Buick) head unit from the early 80's. Cassette deck with AM/FM. Still worked. I replaced it with a mechless Kenwood unit to a better but still inside location. It has a remote so I can control it from the cockpit. Mechless means a UBS and 1/8 audio jack and radio. No moving parts (CD) to break.
Yes, Boss is playing off the Bose name. Bose is mid level performance at a premium price. They do have superior marketing however, which Boss it only to happy to ride along with.