I really should asil more often with folks who know what they're doing! Was sailing with a friend this weekend. He asks why there is no winch on the saim haylard side of the mast. "It (the Main) really should higher." THen he points to the black stripe around the mast and says "yeah see you're below the line marking the lowest point where the boom should be." Oh really? I had no idea. We tried to take it up a bit. The boom was free moving, the main is a foot from the top of the mast but no movement. I can't tell from the deck if the main can go closer to the top of the mast. Should it? I'm taking the mast down soon to add the haylard organizer so I can check for any blockage then. Any thoughts? This is a '76. Later, Mike
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How's your halyard?
How's the end of your halyard? I.e., is there an eye splice and shackle on the end, allowing the halyard to go all the way to the masthead OR is the a stopper knot or other large blocking device near the end of the halyard that would prevent it from going all the way to the top of the masthead? Such a "blocking device" would, then, also prevent your mainsail from being fully hoisted. Alternatively, is there some stopper or pin in the slot of your mast (where the boom end rides) that is stopping the boom from going up higher with the sail when hoisted? Are you sure you're using the main halyard for the main and not the jib halyard for the main and the main halyard for the jib? Doing this would cause the jib halyard to be wrapped or twisted around the head of the mast, thereby shortening the maximum hoist of the mainsail. Try this. Take your mainsail off the boat and lay it out full length on the ground. Use a 100' tape measure and measure the distance from head attachment of the mainsail to the tack attachment (where the boom meets the mast on the sail). Now, using the same tape, hook the end securely into the end of your main halyard (tape it if it will not hook securely--you don't want to lose it at the top of the mast)and hoist the main halyard as high as it will go. Note the measurment where the tape hits the tack fitting on your boom (where the boom connects to the mast, where the mainsail would attach). Which measurement is greater? The second one (of the halyard length) should be greater than the first one (of the sail). If it's not, that's part of your problem. Maybe the sail is too big for your boat. OR maybe your halyard is still being obstructed at the top somehow. If the halyard length is longer than the luff of your mainsail (i.e., the measurement you made of the sail on the ground), then your sail is probably the right size,as is your halyard--you just need to hoist it higher, using more tension on the halyard. It is also possible that your halyard may be stretching too much. Is it wire or rope? If it's rope, how old is it and/or what type of line is it? It might simply be that your halyard is too old and/or the wrong type of line (i.e., that stretches too much) which would explain why you can't tension the halyard sufficiently. Get someone else that knows something about sailboat line to look at it if your not sure. Good luck. Rich s/v TIME BANDIT, OD22
How's the end of your halyard? I.e., is there an eye splice and shackle on the end, allowing the halyard to go all the way to the masthead OR is the a stopper knot or other large blocking device near the end of the halyard that would prevent it from going all the way to the top of the masthead? Such a "blocking device" would, then, also prevent your mainsail from being fully hoisted. Alternatively, is there some stopper or pin in the slot of your mast (where the boom end rides) that is stopping the boom from going up higher with the sail when hoisted? Are you sure you're using the main halyard for the main and not the jib halyard for the main and the main halyard for the jib? Doing this would cause the jib halyard to be wrapped or twisted around the head of the mast, thereby shortening the maximum hoist of the mainsail. Try this. Take your mainsail off the boat and lay it out full length on the ground. Use a 100' tape measure and measure the distance from head attachment of the mainsail to the tack attachment (where the boom meets the mast on the sail). Now, using the same tape, hook the end securely into the end of your main halyard (tape it if it will not hook securely--you don't want to lose it at the top of the mast)and hoist the main halyard as high as it will go. Note the measurment where the tape hits the tack fitting on your boom (where the boom connects to the mast, where the mainsail would attach). Which measurement is greater? The second one (of the halyard length) should be greater than the first one (of the sail). If it's not, that's part of your problem. Maybe the sail is too big for your boat. OR maybe your halyard is still being obstructed at the top somehow. If the halyard length is longer than the luff of your mainsail (i.e., the measurement you made of the sail on the ground), then your sail is probably the right size,as is your halyard--you just need to hoist it higher, using more tension on the halyard. It is also possible that your halyard may be stretching too much. Is it wire or rope? If it's rope, how old is it and/or what type of line is it? It might simply be that your halyard is too old and/or the wrong type of line (i.e., that stretches too much) which would explain why you can't tension the halyard sufficiently. Get someone else that knows something about sailboat line to look at it if your not sure. Good luck. Rich s/v TIME BANDIT, OD22
Halyard condition
Thanks Rich. I have a combination rope cable halyard. I was planning to replace the rope section when I put the halyard organizer on as they will be too short. I've looked at the cable sections and they SEEM to be ok. No visible fraying no rough spots that I can see. I do have a 150' tape that I can run up the mast. There is no interferrence at the spot where the boom attaches to the mast. I can lift it well beyond the stripe on the mast. Attaching a tape or line to the haylard would allow me to see if THAT goes all the way to the mast head. THe point is I am not sure that it should. Just don't know. I'll try that this week. I had considered going with rope only haylards when I replace them. May still. Thanks again, Mike
Thanks Rich. I have a combination rope cable halyard. I was planning to replace the rope section when I put the halyard organizer on as they will be too short. I've looked at the cable sections and they SEEM to be ok. No visible fraying no rough spots that I can see. I do have a 150' tape that I can run up the mast. There is no interferrence at the spot where the boom attaches to the mast. I can lift it well beyond the stripe on the mast. Attaching a tape or line to the haylard would allow me to see if THAT goes all the way to the mast head. THe point is I am not sure that it should. Just don't know. I'll try that this week. I had considered going with rope only haylards when I replace them. May still. Thanks again, Mike
Main sheet?
Mike, Was your main sheet tight when you tried to hoist the main? If it was tight that could be why it does go any higher. I am assuming the your rope to cable halyard is not inside the mast. If yours is, it could be that the cable/rope splice is binding near the exit in the mast. It could be that ht e bolt rope in your luff has shrunk and that it just won't go higher. Does the boom slide loose when you hoist the main? I got no answers. Just trying to think of things for you to check out. r.w.landau
Mike, Was your main sheet tight when you tried to hoist the main? If it was tight that could be why it does go any higher. I am assuming the your rope to cable halyard is not inside the mast. If yours is, it could be that the cable/rope splice is binding near the exit in the mast. It could be that ht e bolt rope in your luff has shrunk and that it just won't go higher. Does the boom slide loose when you hoist the main? I got no answers. Just trying to think of things for you to check out. r.w.landau
Black Stripe?
What is this? How does he know it indicates where the boom should be? News to me. I'm just wondering if you have a real problem? If your headboard is within 12" of the top sheave (you could be out by 4" or so from the deck view), Mike she is probably close to home. You want the boom to be close to the top of the short mast track when the main is fully raised. The more important question is can you get your luff tight if needed? You want to have it tight when the wind pipes up, and somewhat loose when the wind is slack. Do you have a downhaul attached to your boom below the gooseneck, to tighten the luff, once the main is up? That short bit of track on the mast where the boom is attached is to allow for travel of the boom up when raising the main and then tightening the boom down to tighten the luff. When you change out the halyards from rope/wire to all rope, make sure the sheaves at the top of the mast are wide enough to except the diameter of the rope, and not overly grooved from the wire biting into them. Always something else to worry about eh!......8^) Don
What is this? How does he know it indicates where the boom should be? News to me. I'm just wondering if you have a real problem? If your headboard is within 12" of the top sheave (you could be out by 4" or so from the deck view), Mike she is probably close to home. You want the boom to be close to the top of the short mast track when the main is fully raised. The more important question is can you get your luff tight if needed? You want to have it tight when the wind pipes up, and somewhat loose when the wind is slack. Do you have a downhaul attached to your boom below the gooseneck, to tighten the luff, once the main is up? That short bit of track on the mast where the boom is attached is to allow for travel of the boom up when raising the main and then tightening the boom down to tighten the luff. When you change out the halyards from rope/wire to all rope, make sure the sheaves at the top of the mast are wide enough to except the diameter of the rope, and not overly grooved from the wire biting into them. Always something else to worry about eh!......8^) Don
Banded spars
Regarding the black "stripe" or line, some spars (i.e., masts, booms, etc.) are "banded" by the spar maker and/or boat manufacturer to indicate max hoist or max extension for the sail. I do not know if O'Day did this for any of its boats or if maybe your mast is an "aftermarket" or replacement to the factory original. I do know that many racing "hot rods" have banded spars and that part of their purpose is to limit or regulate sail height/extension within a class of boats. It's possible that your mast is banded and that your friend is correct in his/her assessment that your main is not all the way up. On the other hand, I have several sets of black stripes on my mast which, upon closer examination (I just got the boat a few months ago and only recently took the mast down for overhaul), turned out to be the previous owner's idea of how to keep the halyards and shrouds in place during trailering--black electrical tape wrapped around the mast and shrouds/halyards and dried in place over time.... Rich s/v TIME BANDIT, OD'22
Regarding the black "stripe" or line, some spars (i.e., masts, booms, etc.) are "banded" by the spar maker and/or boat manufacturer to indicate max hoist or max extension for the sail. I do not know if O'Day did this for any of its boats or if maybe your mast is an "aftermarket" or replacement to the factory original. I do know that many racing "hot rods" have banded spars and that part of their purpose is to limit or regulate sail height/extension within a class of boats. It's possible that your mast is banded and that your friend is correct in his/her assessment that your main is not all the way up. On the other hand, I have several sets of black stripes on my mast which, upon closer examination (I just got the boat a few months ago and only recently took the mast down for overhaul), turned out to be the previous owner's idea of how to keep the halyards and shrouds in place during trailering--black electrical tape wrapped around the mast and shrouds/halyards and dried in place over time.... Rich s/v TIME BANDIT, OD'22
Boom Position
Mike: Don has it right...what is important is the sail shape underway. All Odays I have been on have a downhall to tighten the main once it has been raised (make sure your main sheet and topping lift are loosened when raising). If you do not have a downhall install one - it's easy and cheap. I leave mine fixed and give a good tug on the halyard - no winch is necessary once you have it set up this way, so Oday didn't put one on the mast. Don't have a clue what the black stripe is for without seeing it... Jim
Mike: Don has it right...what is important is the sail shape underway. All Odays I have been on have a downhall to tighten the main once it has been raised (make sure your main sheet and topping lift are loosened when raising). If you do not have a downhall install one - it's easy and cheap. I leave mine fixed and give a good tug on the halyard - no winch is necessary once you have it set up this way, so Oday didn't put one on the mast. Don't have a clue what the black stripe is for without seeing it... Jim
photo of the Stripe
Ok, here it is. I do have a downhaul but don't have to use it. Won't be ready to take the mast down for teh lines aft project for a couple of weeks. Here is a photo of things as they are. Later, Mike
Ok, here it is. I do have a downhaul but don't have to use it. Won't be ready to take the mast down for teh lines aft project for a couple of weeks. Here is a photo of things as they are. Later, Mike
Attachments
What I have read
I also have tape marks on my mast, "78" O'Day 25 hull # 987. I ran across this tape stuff in an old book about sailing. I have been looking for it to quote it but I have not found it. So, you will have to accept a from memory account of what I thought it said. The tape at the top of the mast is the max height for your sail to be raised. The tape at the bottom of the mast, at the boom, is the height of the foot of the sail. These markings are used mostly for racing. This shows that the sail you are using is within the designed luff length for the boat. Thus no penalty for that sail. I agree with Don that your observation of sail shape is the most important thing. I have told you every thing I know and more..... r.w.landau
I also have tape marks on my mast, "78" O'Day 25 hull # 987. I ran across this tape stuff in an old book about sailing. I have been looking for it to quote it but I have not found it. So, you will have to accept a from memory account of what I thought it said. The tape at the top of the mast is the max height for your sail to be raised. The tape at the bottom of the mast, at the boom, is the height of the foot of the sail. These markings are used mostly for racing. This shows that the sail you are using is within the designed luff length for the boat. Thus no penalty for that sail. I agree with Don that your observation of sail shape is the most important thing. I have told you every thing I know and more..... r.w.landau
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