We have an Autohelm (Raymarine) ST4000 autopilot. We also have the remote control, which West marine lists at $199.99. This gadget, cable connected to the autopilot, is orders of magnitude less complex that your standard infrared TV remote that sells for as little as $10 at Radio Shack. It has only four buttons. The other day our remote fell to the cockpit sole and broke open. Nothing broke but one tiny clear plastic piece that activates the switch when the waterprooof button is pushed apparently went down the cockpit drain. This piece of plastic, perhaps 1/2 inch by 3/4 inch and with a peg about a half inch long, is part number Q055. It costs $10.31 plus $5 handling fee plus shipping plus tax. Now really! I declined the opportunity to buy it and am thinking of cannibalizing an old TV remote to fashion a suitable bit. Any thoughts? One would think customer service would send the thing for free. It's intrinsic value can't be more than a fraction of a cent.
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mercedes response
They believe if you can afford the autopilot on a fairly big boat that you can afford than you can afford to pay the ridiculous price to fix it. Just like owning a mercedes!!!!!!!!
They believe if you can afford the autopilot on a fairly big boat that you can afford than you can afford to pay the ridiculous price to fix it. Just like owning a mercedes!!!!!!!!
Government Providor
What do you expect from a company that is involvled in government contracts? If these companies didn't think this way, we wouldn't have $600 toilet seats and $1,000 dollar wrenches!! And then where would we be as tax-payers? We wouldn't have to work for 5 months to pay the tax bill which cuts into our free time for sailing. No, No, No, it would be unAmerican, downright communistic, if these companies actually charged what the bits and pieces were worth, not what they feel the "traffic will bear". Good Luck with your retro-fit. This might be a business opportunity for you. Geof s/v Day-0
What do you expect from a company that is involvled in government contracts? If these companies didn't think this way, we wouldn't have $600 toilet seats and $1,000 dollar wrenches!! And then where would we be as tax-payers? We wouldn't have to work for 5 months to pay the tax bill which cuts into our free time for sailing. No, No, No, it would be unAmerican, downright communistic, if these companies actually charged what the bits and pieces were worth, not what they feel the "traffic will bear". Good Luck with your retro-fit. This might be a business opportunity for you. Geof s/v Day-0
I have one
Like owning a Mercedes? I have one -- a 1981 diesel. Stuff is available on the aftermarket at quite reasonable prices. But your point is well taken. Unfortunately, it's the same point that led to the luxury tax on boats that very nearly killed the industry. Lots and lots of people who own boats (and Mercedes) don't have any extra money to throw around. The sweat equity factor is very high and we don't like paying outrageous prices for what is clearly cheap stuff. "Ah! You have a yacht. You must be doing very well." "We were doing very well until we bought a yacht."
Like owning a Mercedes? I have one -- a 1981 diesel. Stuff is available on the aftermarket at quite reasonable prices. But your point is well taken. Unfortunately, it's the same point that led to the luxury tax on boats that very nearly killed the industry. Lots and lots of people who own boats (and Mercedes) don't have any extra money to throw around. The sweat equity factor is very high and we don't like paying outrageous prices for what is clearly cheap stuff. "Ah! You have a yacht. You must be doing very well." "We were doing very well until we bought a yacht."
Fraction of a cent if you make millions.
Peter: You may be right that it would be a fraction of a cent if you made millions of these like a garage door opener or a TV remote. When you produce something that only sells several thousand units the cost of tooling is quite expensive. This is the problem with a LOT of items for the boating industry. I am NOT sticking up for them sticking it to us, but for $15 all you have to do is give up that bottle of Merlot for dinner tonite and you can sail hands free for many years to come!
Peter: You may be right that it would be a fraction of a cent if you made millions of these like a garage door opener or a TV remote. When you produce something that only sells several thousand units the cost of tooling is quite expensive. This is the problem with a LOT of items for the boating industry. I am NOT sticking up for them sticking it to us, but for $15 all you have to do is give up that bottle of Merlot for dinner tonite and you can sail hands free for many years to come!
Perspective
See Steve, it is all a matter of perspective. I was hoping for something a little better than a $15 bottle of Merlot when we come for dinner. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
See Steve, it is all a matter of perspective. I was hoping for something a little better than a $15 bottle of Merlot when we come for dinner. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
It's the principle...
Give up the merlot? No! It's the principal of the thing. I won't be held up. Each remote control contains four of these little plastic bits. No matter what the tooling costs, these things could be sold at a handsome profit for pennies. There is no stress on the thing. With my handy dandy Dremel, a matchstick, a little piece of appropriate plastic and a drop of epoxy I will have a fully serviceable replacement. Then I will wrap the case in duct tape so it doesn't crack open again. Now, just to convince you I am not just a cheapskate, I have paid their price to upgrade to ST4000+ and to buy a new drive belt (about $55).
Give up the merlot? No! It's the principal of the thing. I won't be held up. Each remote control contains four of these little plastic bits. No matter what the tooling costs, these things could be sold at a handsome profit for pennies. There is no stress on the thing. With my handy dandy Dremel, a matchstick, a little piece of appropriate plastic and a drop of epoxy I will have a fully serviceable replacement. Then I will wrap the case in duct tape so it doesn't crack open again. Now, just to convince you I am not just a cheapskate, I have paid their price to upgrade to ST4000+ and to buy a new drive belt (about $55).
no glass on the boat
No bottle of wine is good enough for our boat, we insist on the bags of wine. You know the stuff, it's a bag of wine in a box on the bottom shelf of your local grocery store....As for our auto pilot, she is fifteen years old and has been kept alive by stripping several other pieces of old electronic stuff. That will be a tough day at the bank when I have to bellie up to the bar and fork out $700 for a new one (or whatever they cost today). But I have to admit it, I will pay what ever the cost, my wife and I sail alone like most everyone else here and the auto pilot is a crucial piece of our equipment once we leave the sea bouy on our stern.
No bottle of wine is good enough for our boat, we insist on the bags of wine. You know the stuff, it's a bag of wine in a box on the bottom shelf of your local grocery store....As for our auto pilot, she is fifteen years old and has been kept alive by stripping several other pieces of old electronic stuff. That will be a tough day at the bank when I have to bellie up to the bar and fork out $700 for a new one (or whatever they cost today). But I have to admit it, I will pay what ever the cost, my wife and I sail alone like most everyone else here and the auto pilot is a crucial piece of our equipment once we leave the sea bouy on our stern.
Steve is right
The tooling cost and set up time to make a few thousand pcs per year is the largest single cost item. Then you have inventory costs and everything else. By the way I had to replace the interior driver side door handle on my 1984 Mercedes and 1998 suburban within one month of each other. The parts for the suburban were 3X that of the Mercedes and took 3 times as long to install. Oh yeah, the Mercedes was 18 years old and the suburban was 4. As to why the wrench and toilet seat cost so much, look at the specification the military requires the supplier to meet. Yes it is an off the shelf item, but by the time you buy 3, destroy 2 during weeks of testing and pay the engineers to fill out the required paper work, $10,000 is a fair deal. (No I don't work for a military contractor) Russell S/V Allie Kat
The tooling cost and set up time to make a few thousand pcs per year is the largest single cost item. Then you have inventory costs and everything else. By the way I had to replace the interior driver side door handle on my 1984 Mercedes and 1998 suburban within one month of each other. The parts for the suburban were 3X that of the Mercedes and took 3 times as long to install. Oh yeah, the Mercedes was 18 years old and the suburban was 4. As to why the wrench and toilet seat cost so much, look at the specification the military requires the supplier to meet. Yes it is an off the shelf item, but by the time you buy 3, destroy 2 during weeks of testing and pay the engineers to fill out the required paper work, $10,000 is a fair deal. (No I don't work for a military contractor) Russell S/V Allie Kat
Chris & Dan
Chris & Dan: This is real perspective. Dan from Sausilito and Chris from Richomd (opposites sides of the bay). One thinks $15 for Merlot is extravagent and Dan thinks I'm cheap. Now being in Rio Vista, I think I'm just about right<g>. Peter, I know how your feel. "BUT" how many choices do you REALLY have? I say "one". Bite the bullet and fix it. You'll get ill if you think about it for too long. Next week when you are out sailing with your repair unit (drinking my $4.89/magnum Casara Merlot from Costco) you will forget all about getting raped and will be enjoying life again <g>. PS: Dan, at $4.89 a magnum, you'll never come to my boat for dinner (will ya?). Chris, you will probably be over tommorrow (won't ya?).
Chris & Dan: This is real perspective. Dan from Sausilito and Chris from Richomd (opposites sides of the bay). One thinks $15 for Merlot is extravagent and Dan thinks I'm cheap. Now being in Rio Vista, I think I'm just about right<g>. Peter, I know how your feel. "BUT" how many choices do you REALLY have? I say "one". Bite the bullet and fix it. You'll get ill if you think about it for too long. Next week when you are out sailing with your repair unit (drinking my $4.89/magnum Casara Merlot from Costco) you will forget all about getting raped and will be enjoying life again <g>. PS: Dan, at $4.89 a magnum, you'll never come to my boat for dinner (will ya?). Chris, you will probably be over tommorrow (won't ya?).
make your own
For small plastic parts, I have resorted to making my own stuff. For your application it is easy. First carve a small mold into a piece of balsa wood (get at hobby store). Melt something plastic like a liter bottle of pop with a falme and drip into the mold. Let cool and wallah!@ Do it outside up wind cause the palstic melting is nasty and bad for you. I have done this for many things on kids toys, car parts and others. Not always pretty but really functional.
For small plastic parts, I have resorted to making my own stuff. For your application it is easy. First carve a small mold into a piece of balsa wood (get at hobby store). Melt something plastic like a liter bottle of pop with a falme and drip into the mold. Let cool and wallah!@ Do it outside up wind cause the palstic melting is nasty and bad for you. I have done this for many things on kids toys, car parts and others. Not always pretty but really functional.
I'd drink Carlo Rossi wit' ya
As long as we were on a boat on the water.... Actually I aint that cheap but I'm saving up for my new C350. Besides that, I am known to enjoy on fairly regular occasion a snifter or two of 10 year old Laphroigh. Steve, that stuff runs $45 per .750 ml bottle. You like scotch?
As long as we were on a boat on the water.... Actually I aint that cheap but I'm saving up for my new C350. Besides that, I am known to enjoy on fairly regular occasion a snifter or two of 10 year old Laphroigh. Steve, that stuff runs $45 per .750 ml bottle. You like scotch?
Price is no obect
Steve, For dinner with you, we would drink rot-gut. Its about the company!! And actually, we live in Napa Valley, perhaps that is even worse in regard to wine snobbery. The boat used to be in Sausalito, now in Alameda. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Steve, For dinner with you, we would drink rot-gut. Its about the company!! And actually, we live in Napa Valley, perhaps that is even worse in regard to wine snobbery. The boat used to be in Sausalito, now in Alameda. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Dan & Chris
Actually, there ain't no BAD wine. It is just that some is better than others. I have never found a bottle that I did not like (in moderation). A little scotch, wine, brandy etc etc. Dan, in case you do not know it Chris has moved his Cat. to Hidden Harbor. I hope to see you there this summer. We have room for weekend visitors as far as I now. We all want to go sailing on that new 356 so don't wait until it's 110 deg. Come on up to the delta so we can get together. Chris is ususally avail. mid week, but I can be there if you are available.
Actually, there ain't no BAD wine. It is just that some is better than others. I have never found a bottle that I did not like (in moderation). A little scotch, wine, brandy etc etc. Dan, in case you do not know it Chris has moved his Cat. to Hidden Harbor. I hope to see you there this summer. We have room for weekend visitors as far as I now. We all want to go sailing on that new 356 so don't wait until it's 110 deg. Come on up to the delta so we can get together. Chris is ususally avail. mid week, but I can be there if you are available.
If you want to save money stay hame
Peter, Heres the deal years ago early 1970's I learned to fly airplanes ,It was very expencive I was a working stiff, but I wanted to fly and the admission price was high. One day I am reading one of my flying Magazines and a guy writes in bitching becouse he had to pay the US goverment $6.00 for a radio Lic. to operate his radio. The Magazine editor wrote back ,IF YOU WANTED TO SAFE MONEY STAY HOME! This made a lot of since to me and I have taken that outlook with my ADULT TOYS ever since $15.00 seems like a small price to pay , all other thngs considerd as in you have thousands and thousands invested in your past time the bottom line is if you want to save mony STAY HOME. Good Sailing, Jack
Peter, Heres the deal years ago early 1970's I learned to fly airplanes ,It was very expencive I was a working stiff, but I wanted to fly and the admission price was high. One day I am reading one of my flying Magazines and a guy writes in bitching becouse he had to pay the US goverment $6.00 for a radio Lic. to operate his radio. The Magazine editor wrote back ,IF YOU WANTED TO SAFE MONEY STAY HOME! This made a lot of since to me and I have taken that outlook with my ADULT TOYS ever since $15.00 seems like a small price to pay , all other thngs considerd as in you have thousands and thousands invested in your past time the bottom line is if you want to save mony STAY HOME. Good Sailing, Jack
Raymarine parts
I had to replace the socket that the ST2000 tillerpilot plugs into, because 2 of the setscrews for the wires had broken, and they were not available. The socket was $35 plus shipping; it seemed a little high to me, but making my own wasn't an option. For what it's worth, Raymarine is no longer a part of Raytheon, the defense contractor. The marine division was split off into a separate company about a year ago.
I had to replace the socket that the ST2000 tillerpilot plugs into, because 2 of the setscrews for the wires had broken, and they were not available. The socket was $35 plus shipping; it seemed a little high to me, but making my own wasn't an option. For what it's worth, Raymarine is no longer a part of Raytheon, the defense contractor. The marine division was split off into a separate company about a year ago.
Autopilot Parts
I just replaced our aging (16 year old) Autohelm 3000 with a new ST3000. The BoatUS $729 price was matched by West Marine (who no longer stock the ST3000). Someone was right on about THAT price! But 16 years into $729 is only 3 bottles of $15 wine!!! Given all the "negative" publicity about getting the right control settings to work on the ST4000 model, and also not wanting to have to rewire through the binnacle for a different autopilot control mount, I chose the "old" way out,and was able to still reuse the cam bracket and belt hub on the wheel, and most of the wiring. Our control head is mounted on the starboard coaming, with the motor mounted on the Edson post. I installed it yesterday and it worked fine right out of the box. Reason for that description is simply to ask why a remote control is considered eiher optional or necessary, when cockpits are only 8 feet long. Is it because the ST4000s only have a control that can be easily accessed from behind the wheel? Our control head is located in a position that is parallel wih the grab rail on the binnacle, so I can easily access the buttons from both behind the wheel and from the cockpit when singlehanding. Oh, yes, we're going to visit Napa (River) next week. We'll take the bottle of wine, the box of wine, the scotch or whatever is available. Gotta beat the heat somehow...
I just replaced our aging (16 year old) Autohelm 3000 with a new ST3000. The BoatUS $729 price was matched by West Marine (who no longer stock the ST3000). Someone was right on about THAT price! But 16 years into $729 is only 3 bottles of $15 wine!!! Given all the "negative" publicity about getting the right control settings to work on the ST4000 model, and also not wanting to have to rewire through the binnacle for a different autopilot control mount, I chose the "old" way out,and was able to still reuse the cam bracket and belt hub on the wheel, and most of the wiring. Our control head is mounted on the starboard coaming, with the motor mounted on the Edson post. I installed it yesterday and it worked fine right out of the box. Reason for that description is simply to ask why a remote control is considered eiher optional or necessary, when cockpits are only 8 feet long. Is it because the ST4000s only have a control that can be easily accessed from behind the wheel? Our control head is located in a position that is parallel wih the grab rail on the binnacle, so I can easily access the buttons from both behind the wheel and from the cockpit when singlehanding. Oh, yes, we're going to visit Napa (River) next week. We'll take the bottle of wine, the box of wine, the scotch or whatever is available. Gotta beat the heat somehow...
yah i thought i bought a boat i could afford too
but she's still worth every penny i don't have to throw into her. i just do with out something else or put off payment till winter.
but she's still worth every penny i don't have to throw into her. i just do with out something else or put off payment till winter.
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