As of today, Ontario has some of the strictist anti-drunk boating rules in the world. US boaters in Canada should note that these rules will apply to them as well, and will be enforced, including driver's licence suspensions, in most states including all of the border states. You should also know that when at anchor or in a marina, your boat ceases to be a vehicle and becomes a residence; you can be as drunk as you want. IMHB this is great news for all boaters, and I hope will set an example for other jurisdictions. Under Bill 209 now passed into law, drunk boaters will be subject to the same suspension penalties that now apply to drivers. Boaters whose blood-alcohol level is 0.05 (50 mg per 100 ml) could be taking the bus home because of an immediate 12-hour suspension of their driver’s licence. If they blow 0.08 or more, or if the police deem their ability impaired, the offender will receive a 90-day suspension. Fines and jail terms will be left to the discretion of the judge on a case-by-case basis; however, a conviction will mean an immediate, one-year suspension.
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Its a Good Law
So where does that leave racing. I thought that racers were drinkers with a sailing problem? Just kidding.....maybe....Anyway, i think its a good law also.
So where does that leave racing. I thought that racers were drinkers with a sailing problem? Just kidding.....maybe....Anyway, i think its a good law also.
The problem with the law
In my opinion, if you have a law, but you don't have the police, you don't have a law. Here in sometimes sunny coastal BC, there are very few coast guard and police boats. The police boats pretty much stick to their own beat; eg. Vancouver boat cops pretty much stay in Vancouver so I could be drunk as a skunk in Howe Sound (not in Vancouver jurisdiction), and pretty much not have to worry about anyone coming after me. And who patrols the Straights of Georgia; the Coast Guard does, but Canada has gone on the cheaps with the Canadian Coast Guard and we have too too few patrol boats on the water. I can go a year before I see a Coast Guard boat out there.
In my opinion, if you have a law, but you don't have the police, you don't have a law. Here in sometimes sunny coastal BC, there are very few coast guard and police boats. The police boats pretty much stick to their own beat; eg. Vancouver boat cops pretty much stay in Vancouver so I could be drunk as a skunk in Howe Sound (not in Vancouver jurisdiction), and pretty much not have to worry about anyone coming after me. And who patrols the Straights of Georgia; the Coast Guard does, but Canada has gone on the cheaps with the Canadian Coast Guard and we have too too few patrol boats on the water. I can go a year before I see a Coast Guard boat out there.
Gee, ya think "underfunding" law enforcement
is still a good idea. Time to go to Religion and Politics.
is still a good idea. Time to go to Religion and Politics.
Is it a good law?
I wonder!!! How should one's behavior on the water, whether it be appropriate or inappropriate, good or bad, safe or unsafe, affect his or her driving privileges? While I am certainly not an advocate of operating any watercraft while under the influence (I personally never drink unless my boat is tied up or at anchor.), I do not see how the state can revoke my driver's license if I violate water regulations. Would the reverse be any different? If I loose my driver's liscense because of a DUI, does that mean that my water privledges are revoked? Another example of too much big brother.
I wonder!!! How should one's behavior on the water, whether it be appropriate or inappropriate, good or bad, safe or unsafe, affect his or her driving privileges? While I am certainly not an advocate of operating any watercraft while under the influence (I personally never drink unless my boat is tied up or at anchor.), I do not see how the state can revoke my driver's license if I violate water regulations. Would the reverse be any different? If I loose my driver's liscense because of a DUI, does that mean that my water privledges are revoked? Another example of too much big brother.
Another door opened by law enforcement
that is subject to an abuse of power. If you are drunk and asleep in your driveway with the keys in the ignition, you may be charged with . If you are on your boat and anchord, with the key in the ignition and drunk, what assurance is given to ensure that law enforcement will not (can not) charge you with operating under the influence? My guess is "NOTHING".
that is subject to an abuse of power. If you are drunk and asleep in your driveway with the keys in the ignition, you may be charged with . If you are on your boat and anchord, with the key in the ignition and drunk, what assurance is given to ensure that law enforcement will not (can not) charge you with operating under the influence? My guess is "NOTHING".
The deal is that your boat is NOT your home
even if it is a second home to you. Law enforcement (my son-in-law is a policeman and I have a great deal of respect for him and his colleagues) is beginning to get out of hand. I believe that your boat should be as sacred as your house, but given the recent Supreme Court ruling they don't even have to "bother" to tell you who they are before they knock on your door anymore. The restrictions on personal freedom are only just beginning to be felt by the (remember these guys?) "silent majority." OK, OK, let's ALL move over to the Politics board. The REALLY scary part about all this is that Phil, who runs this board, has been one of the first to have the intelligence to have a politics forum. Doesn't matter who we are, but we all do share, as sailors, a sense of freedom. We need to all recognize that we need to do something before it is taken from us.
even if it is a second home to you. Law enforcement (my son-in-law is a policeman and I have a great deal of respect for him and his colleagues) is beginning to get out of hand. I believe that your boat should be as sacred as your house, but given the recent Supreme Court ruling they don't even have to "bother" to tell you who they are before they knock on your door anymore. The restrictions on personal freedom are only just beginning to be felt by the (remember these guys?) "silent majority." OK, OK, let's ALL move over to the Politics board. The REALLY scary part about all this is that Phil, who runs this board, has been one of the first to have the intelligence to have a politics forum. Doesn't matter who we are, but we all do share, as sailors, a sense of freedom. We need to all recognize that we need to do something before it is taken from us.
Well Stu, We never had it.
Boaters have NO fourth amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Any Law Enforcement 0fficer can board your boat and SEARCH, any time, anywhere, if your boat is in U.S. waters or U.S. flagged, ANYWHERE. NO WARRANT. WE HAVE NO RIGHTS! Did I make myself clear? No other vehicles or vessels have no rights. Only boats. It goes back to when the U.S. government was supported ONLY by revenue from shipping. No one ever bothered to change the rules. Got an airplane? Cops want to search? Ask for a warrant if they didn't see something in person to establish 'probable cause'. Gota boat? Bend over. Fishing expeditions are great fun for rookie cops, or park rangers, or, or, or.
Boaters have NO fourth amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Any Law Enforcement 0fficer can board your boat and SEARCH, any time, anywhere, if your boat is in U.S. waters or U.S. flagged, ANYWHERE. NO WARRANT. WE HAVE NO RIGHTS! Did I make myself clear? No other vehicles or vessels have no rights. Only boats. It goes back to when the U.S. government was supported ONLY by revenue from shipping. No one ever bothered to change the rules. Got an airplane? Cops want to search? Ask for a warrant if they didn't see something in person to establish 'probable cause'. Gota boat? Bend over. Fishing expeditions are great fun for rookie cops, or park rangers, or, or, or.
60% Of Deaths On The Water
60% of deaths on Canadian waters are due to alcohol. Go figure! I never knew that. I like to have a beer when I sail just like the next guy, however I just have a couple. How many boaters have more than a couple? I would say that based on the 60% of deaths that occur on the water this new law could be a good thing. I can wait until I get back to shore to drink my two beers. A good law don't you all think?
60% of deaths on Canadian waters are due to alcohol. Go figure! I never knew that. I like to have a beer when I sail just like the next guy, however I just have a couple. How many boaters have more than a couple? I would say that based on the 60% of deaths that occur on the water this new law could be a good thing. I can wait until I get back to shore to drink my two beers. A good law don't you all think?
PCOC
Why don't they suspend the offender's Pleasure Craft Operator Card, instead of his Driver's Licence? All operators of powered watercraft used for recreational purposes within Canada will eventually require a Pleasure Craft Operator Card. The following three groups of boaters require the card IMMEDIATELY: * All operators of any powered watercraft under 4m in length (13.1ft) * All operators of PWC's (i.e.: sea-doos and jet skis) * All operators of any powered watercraft born after April 1, 1983 As of September 15, 2009 all boaters will be required to have the Pleasure Craft Operator Card in order to operate a powered watercraft. There is no grandfather clause or age exemption – this law applies to all boaters. Powered watercraft includes watercraft fitted with any size motor – even a trolling motor.
Why don't they suspend the offender's Pleasure Craft Operator Card, instead of his Driver's Licence? All operators of powered watercraft used for recreational purposes within Canada will eventually require a Pleasure Craft Operator Card. The following three groups of boaters require the card IMMEDIATELY: * All operators of any powered watercraft under 4m in length (13.1ft) * All operators of PWC's (i.e.: sea-doos and jet skis) * All operators of any powered watercraft born after April 1, 1983 As of September 15, 2009 all boaters will be required to have the Pleasure Craft Operator Card in order to operate a powered watercraft. There is no grandfather clause or age exemption – this law applies to all boaters. Powered watercraft includes watercraft fitted with any size motor – even a trolling motor.
Suspend his PCOC!
Gord, tell me you are just joking, and that wasn't a serious recommendation. Most Canadian boaters can probably go their entire lives without being pulled over by a marine unit; I have been on the water since the '70s and have never once been stopped. So who is going to check they have a PCOC? Now take away his driver's license and he can't get to his boat; that will keep the drunk from boating. Kevin
Gord, tell me you are just joking, and that wasn't a serious recommendation. Most Canadian boaters can probably go their entire lives without being pulled over by a marine unit; I have been on the water since the '70s and have never once been stopped. So who is going to check they have a PCOC? Now take away his driver's license and he can't get to his boat; that will keep the drunk from boating. Kevin
California already does this...
Guess we in California are ahead of the game, and hve been so for several years. If a boater is caught operating impared on the water, he or she receives the same penalties as if they were behind the wheel of a car, including the loss of your driver's license. When over 95% of boating accidents involve an impaired operator, this is what results.
Guess we in California are ahead of the game, and hve been so for several years. If a boater is caught operating impared on the water, he or she receives the same penalties as if they were behind the wheel of a car, including the loss of your driver's license. When over 95% of boating accidents involve an impaired operator, this is what results.
Fisherman Drink And Then Fall Off The Boat
The truth to the 60% death is more related to fisherman who drink in the water. How do we know that. When their bodies are recovered their flys are open. So they fish, drink and stand up in their boats and fall while having a wizz. They tip over, fall in the water and can't get back in the boat. Usually the water is real cold...40 degrees. Five minutes late hypothermia kicks in and bingo...another statistic.
The truth to the 60% death is more related to fisherman who drink in the water. How do we know that. When their bodies are recovered their flys are open. So they fish, drink and stand up in their boats and fall while having a wizz. They tip over, fall in the water and can't get back in the boat. Usually the water is real cold...40 degrees. Five minutes late hypothermia kicks in and bingo...another statistic.
If you have a Capt. License.....
If you have a Capt. License and you get a DWI in you automobile, you can have your Capt license suspended. At least it used to be that way when i was a Capt back in the early to mid 90's. (1990's, that is, not the 1890's)
If you have a Capt. License and you get a DWI in you automobile, you can have your Capt license suspended. At least it used to be that way when i was a Capt back in the early to mid 90's. (1990's, that is, not the 1890's)
Depends...
Depending on the license size you want, there will be a certain amount of sea time required on boats/vessels of the size you are requesting and also Coast Guard Tests. Much easier to get now than ever before because the "Sea schools" that most people go to are now administering the tests for the U.S.C.G. and they all advertise..guaranteed to pass. its been a while since I first got my 100Ton Masters License. Maybe someone newer to it can give the info as to what size boats and how much sea time is required.
Depending on the license size you want, there will be a certain amount of sea time required on boats/vessels of the size you are requesting and also Coast Guard Tests. Much easier to get now than ever before because the "Sea schools" that most people go to are now administering the tests for the U.S.C.G. and they all advertise..guaranteed to pass. its been a while since I first got my 100Ton Masters License. Maybe someone newer to it can give the info as to what size boats and how much sea time is required.
Captain's License
What's usually called a "Captain's License" is an OUPV (Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel) or a Master's License. An OUPV (commonly called a 6-pack) allows you to operate an uninspected vessel (meaning a vessel not requiring a USCG inspection) with passengers for hire. Uninspected vessels are restricted to carrying 6 paying passengers and two crew members. A Master's allows you to carry passengers on an uninspected vessel and inspected vessels up to the capacity of your license (ie 25 ton, 50 ton, 100 ton) TonyB's correct that the classes make passing easier, but I don't know about the "guarantee". The class I took specifically said they WON'T guarantee you'll pass. However, the instructor said that if we did everything he told us to do, we WOULD pass, but that wasn't a "guarantee". Please note, one of the things he said we should do is write all of the questions on flash cards, and work them until we could answer every one correctly every time. In other words, he was telling us if we studied, we would pass. I asked him about "succcess rate", and he said it depended on how you measured "success". He said that he didn't know of any of his students that finished the course, and took the test, had failed to get their license. But, he said, it wasn't unusual to have half the people drop out of the class without finishing. That pretty clearly told me it wasn't a "gimme" type thing. He also said that the USCG audits the results of the tests, and reserves the right to require students to come in to the USCG station and retake their tests there (we had to agree to that possibility to take the cests through the class). I say all that to make it clear, this isn't a "show up, doze through some classes, and go home with a license" thing. I've got several Novell and Microsoft certifications, all of them requiring multiple tests, and this was by far the toughest set of classes I've taken. Your "sea time" requirements are 360 days underway, 90 of which must within the last three years. That's for an inland license. If you want a "near-coastal" license, 90 of the 360 days must have been in near-coastal waters. A Master's requires an additional 360 days experience (720 total). If you want a near-coastal, 360 of the 720 must have been in near-coastal waters. You can follow the attached link to see Capt. Roy's website, the organization I used for my classes. I went to the Arlington location with Capt Jack Dyess.
What's usually called a "Captain's License" is an OUPV (Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel) or a Master's License. An OUPV (commonly called a 6-pack) allows you to operate an uninspected vessel (meaning a vessel not requiring a USCG inspection) with passengers for hire. Uninspected vessels are restricted to carrying 6 paying passengers and two crew members. A Master's allows you to carry passengers on an uninspected vessel and inspected vessels up to the capacity of your license (ie 25 ton, 50 ton, 100 ton) TonyB's correct that the classes make passing easier, but I don't know about the "guarantee". The class I took specifically said they WON'T guarantee you'll pass. However, the instructor said that if we did everything he told us to do, we WOULD pass, but that wasn't a "guarantee". Please note, one of the things he said we should do is write all of the questions on flash cards, and work them until we could answer every one correctly every time. In other words, he was telling us if we studied, we would pass. I asked him about "succcess rate", and he said it depended on how you measured "success". He said that he didn't know of any of his students that finished the course, and took the test, had failed to get their license. But, he said, it wasn't unusual to have half the people drop out of the class without finishing. That pretty clearly told me it wasn't a "gimme" type thing. He also said that the USCG audits the results of the tests, and reserves the right to require students to come in to the USCG station and retake their tests there (we had to agree to that possibility to take the cests through the class). I say all that to make it clear, this isn't a "show up, doze through some classes, and go home with a license" thing. I've got several Novell and Microsoft certifications, all of them requiring multiple tests, and this was by far the toughest set of classes I've taken. Your "sea time" requirements are 360 days underway, 90 of which must within the last three years. That's for an inland license. If you want a "near-coastal" license, 90 of the 360 days must have been in near-coastal waters. A Master's requires an additional 360 days experience (720 total). If you want a near-coastal, 360 of the 720 must have been in near-coastal waters. You can follow the attached link to see Capt. Roy's website, the organization I used for my classes. I went to the Arlington location with Capt Jack Dyess.
Masters Ticket
Dwayne, Why would you want a license? There are thousands of folks delivering recreational vessels, new yachts, and charters without a license. 1) you are not a captian, at least not until you get into the high tonnage or unlimited, but you can (like anybody who buys a boat) call yourself "captain" not a legal term; used by delivery skippers to attract business only, if you do not advertise as a 'captain' the client is frightened off. 2) If my friends/crew want to needle me they call me 'captain' as it is usually the A-holes that like this term, and the cute lil' captains cap too. 3) Most fishermen, or the real thing call themselves skipper, and are rerferred to as that. 4) The sea-time Tony was talking about is pretty easy to document, you do it yourself, and seldom is the info checked, and you can document a lotta time if you own your own yacht. For a 50 ton license you can document time in your 30ft boat, you do not have to get time on a 100 tonner... 5) Now days, no 'Six-Pack' (refers to being able to legally charter with six or less passengers on an 'uninspected' vessel) The sea time for a 50 ton is not hard to come by, go for the fifty. 6) while the sea-time is pretty easy and you document it, do not have to have some skipper you worked with sign, the exam is VERY SERIOUS and tough; you need 90% on the first exam, "Rules of The Road" before you can go on to seamanship, Navigation, CFR'S etc and all are tough tests. I many exams, college entrance, ITC for YMCA, NAUI, PADI, 1st aid mutimedia, and many others; no comparison to the USCG MASTERS, in fact you really have to study. These 'classes' are lobbied for the 'students' and are a bit of a grey area...it is very unlikely that there is no hanky-panky going on to buy the license; knowing which test you will recieve narrows down the field considerably. I had a friend go to one of these "schools" he passed but I know if it had been proctored by the Coast Guard he would not have passed just by his general knowledge. They charge for, drug test, physical, eye, and I think for the exam now. You renew every five years, and it is a good thing that you do not have to re-test as I am sure I would have trouble; much of the info you would never use, example, you come upon a flashing yellow heading upstream on the Missisippi, Q. what vessel, what direction? What is a 'station' Bouy? It is a 'Masters' license, commonly called a 'ticket' and if you take any money for any kind of, charter, passenger, diving, water-sports etc you are illegal without one...;-)
Dwayne, Why would you want a license? There are thousands of folks delivering recreational vessels, new yachts, and charters without a license. 1) you are not a captian, at least not until you get into the high tonnage or unlimited, but you can (like anybody who buys a boat) call yourself "captain" not a legal term; used by delivery skippers to attract business only, if you do not advertise as a 'captain' the client is frightened off. 2) If my friends/crew want to needle me they call me 'captain' as it is usually the A-holes that like this term, and the cute lil' captains cap too. 3) Most fishermen, or the real thing call themselves skipper, and are rerferred to as that. 4) The sea-time Tony was talking about is pretty easy to document, you do it yourself, and seldom is the info checked, and you can document a lotta time if you own your own yacht. For a 50 ton license you can document time in your 30ft boat, you do not have to get time on a 100 tonner... 5) Now days, no 'Six-Pack' (refers to being able to legally charter with six or less passengers on an 'uninspected' vessel) The sea time for a 50 ton is not hard to come by, go for the fifty. 6) while the sea-time is pretty easy and you document it, do not have to have some skipper you worked with sign, the exam is VERY SERIOUS and tough; you need 90% on the first exam, "Rules of The Road" before you can go on to seamanship, Navigation, CFR'S etc and all are tough tests. I many exams, college entrance, ITC for YMCA, NAUI, PADI, 1st aid mutimedia, and many others; no comparison to the USCG MASTERS, in fact you really have to study. These 'classes' are lobbied for the 'students' and are a bit of a grey area...it is very unlikely that there is no hanky-panky going on to buy the license; knowing which test you will recieve narrows down the field considerably. I had a friend go to one of these "schools" he passed but I know if it had been proctored by the Coast Guard he would not have passed just by his general knowledge. They charge for, drug test, physical, eye, and I think for the exam now. You renew every five years, and it is a good thing that you do not have to re-test as I am sure I would have trouble; much of the info you would never use, example, you come upon a flashing yellow heading upstream on the Missisippi, Q. what vessel, what direction? What is a 'station' Bouy? It is a 'Masters' license, commonly called a 'ticket' and if you take any money for any kind of, charter, passenger, diving, water-sports etc you are illegal without one...;-)
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