Boat Yard Rules when on the hard...

[BillyK]

This is what makes my home state the greatest in the country. Brilliant minds developing creative taxation codes.
It is forcing out all those who cant afford it.

Sorry to take it off topic, but i have to comment..

It's quite the opposite.. its forcing out the middle class since they carry the burden of keeping this state financially alive and are getting fed up.. the ones that cant afford it get free food, free schooling, free healthcare at any hospital of their choice. My wife and i want to leave this state more than anything but cant since our house has no value now..

 

[RichH]

Not Utches.

Thats GOOD to hear. I usually stop there whenever I can when traveling. Its a good (quite friendly and helpful, etc.) place to stop before running the Del Bay or NJ coast.

 

[thinwater]

Thats GOOD to hear. I usually stop there whenever I can when traveling. Its a good (quite friendly and helpful, etc.) place to stop before running the Del Bay or NJ coast.

Very good. All I needed to know.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Down here in sunny FL, it seems the nicer the marina/yard, the more and stiffer rules. We have 1 that will not allow any serious DIY work, inside or outside the boat AND they charge any outside contracted professional 25% of the value of the job!
We still have a few that are DIY friendly.
Many of our smaller marina/yard have been bought out by developers and are now condo'd but I guess that as long as the economy is in the toilet we will still have a few places to work on our boats.
And every marina or yard I've ever been to has there rules. Trying to challenge the rules of a private business would be a waste of time. Funny how some hard core anti big gov't types want the courts to tell private citizens how to run thier businesses?

 

[RichH]

No, this is a result of the state EPA making sure that there is a clean marine environment for the plants and animals that live there and for humans to recreate in. Unregulated (and allowing boatowners to do as they please) boatyards would be among the worst waterfront polluters, as they were in the past.


Does your car mechanic let you bring in the sparkplugs you got on sale at Walmart for him to install during a tuneup?

And dont you yourself have a 'special interest' for personal profit in all this ... as a diver? .
.. whats next your 'endorsement' of only permitting licensed professional captains to operate boats for the owners so to insure that all environmental and associated 'special interest', etc. etc. concerns are satisfied?

With respect to DIY auto repair, I can easily guess you'd endorse the impending Massachusetts law that would outlaw all DIY work on automobiles and limit all such automotive maintenance work to be performed solely by 'certified professionals', .... who routinely overcharge with obscene prices for labor as well as grossly inflated the price of the parts.

 

[KD3PC]

outlaw all DIY work on automobiles and limits all such automotive maintenance work to be performed solely by 'certified professionals', .... who routinely overcharge with obscene prices for labor as well as grossly inflated the price of the parts.

and still not fix the problem....


there is some balance to strive for in the marina/professional vs DIY, and I hope it stays heavily in favor of the DIY guys and gals...

there are too many "professionals" who have an agenda other than the business....or worse yet....they "know everything" in their mind, but know nothing practically and still want to charge pro rates...they even have the correct tools, diagnostics, PC& software...yet miss the big picture to solve the problem..

There are enough un-enforceable laws and regulations now....that have not, (nor will they ever), done a thing to clean the water, or let people recreate in it...quite the opposite in many cases...feel good, nanny laws, bah-humbug...

 

[Rick D]

With respect to DIY auto repair, I can easily guess you'd endorse the impending Massachusetts law that would outlaw all DIY work on automobiles and limit all such automotive maintenance work to be performed solely by 'certified professionals', ....

Oh, my aching head! Geesh, it's hard to believe that could have a chance, but I have seen weirder (as I come in from the garage working on the Jaguar & Miata)

 

[fstbttms]

And dont you yourself have a 'special interest' for personal profit in all this ... as a diver?

Yes, my special interest is that I earn my living in the water. I'd like for it to be as clean as possible.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

We're long ago there. I believe most marinas require purchases of paint & materials from them (I know of no exceptions) and those allowing owner painting are rare (I think there are two).

I hauled at King Harbor last year. I paid their package price for a haul and 1 coat of bottom paint. They had no problem with me using my own materials and labor to replace thru-hulls, paint the topsides, prep and apply two coats of bottom paint before they applied a third and final coat. Their price was a package deal for a haul and bottom paint that I felt was very reasonable.

Their policies that applied in my case were:

• Lay days in their yard were free as long as they were doing work on the boat (1 coat of bottom paint per the package deal)
• I was provided a key to the yard for after-hours work ($20 key deposit)
• I was allowed to drive my vehicle right up to the boat
• Any bottom paint not purchased from them was assessed a $50/gal surcharge.

I was in the yard for 5 days, worked on the boat daily and the total yard bill was $830. For that expense I replaced 2 thru-hulls, 2 additional thru-hull valves, sanded the entire topsides and applied 2 coats of topsides paint, prepped and applied 3 coats of bottom paint (2 by me, 1 by them). It was an outstanding haulout in my opinion, well worth every penny.

Oh yeah, they are far enough from my marina to require a day's sail each way. Like I'm gonna complain about that!!

 

[Rick486]

A Gallup poll out today found that about 50% of people who answered the poll felt that their personal freedom was seriously threatened by the US federal government and 81% were unhappy with the way the US was being governed. Some good examples in this thread.

 

[Manureva]

yada yada yada ...i see one simple solution, get some wheel under your cradlle, get the boat home paint it, get it back at the marina, cheaper the suing and all

 

[MrUnix]

is it just me or do these two rules seem unjust?

Nope.. it's their playground so you gotta follow their rules. If you don't like them, then you find another playground.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[shemandr]

is it just me or do these two rules seem unjust?

Pretty much the norm around here.
Listen to what merlinluxo says. The DIY yards are becoming condos. Why? Because they weren't making any money as boatyards! We all don't want to pay but we have to realize that the owners of those properties can make more money selling to developers. So I complain about rates, try to limit my expenses ... but not too much. I think any yard owner should get a return of the money tied up in the real estate and business that is greater than what that capital would return if invested (Snickers aside). Otherwise why would someone take the risks of operating that business?
Nevertheless, I don't excuse boatyards of the one way attitude that many have. I delayed buying a boat for years because of reading contracts which intimatated me from getting in. It turned out that most yards are more flexible than those contracts read. The attitude doesn't help them.

 

[Fly_H23]

It's no wonder why trailerable sailboats hold their value better. I would expect to be notified of all the rules up front at any boat yard.

 

[Warren Milberg]

One part of the boat buying process is knowing where you will keep the boat. I could not see keeping my boat at a yard that would not allow me to work on my boat, to include bottom painting. I can see, and accept, the yard requiring me to meet stringent environmental standards, however. When we go to sports events or movie theaters, we accept the fact that the stadium/theater may not allow us to bring our own food and drink in and must buy their stuff (usually at very high prices....). Why would a boatyard be any different? Running a boatyard is a profit and loss business and we are always free to vote with our feet (or boats, as the case may be).

 

[kenn]

It seems to me that there's a business opportunity for someone to develop a quicker, safer and more efficient method of prepping bottom and applying bottom paint. Something that ensured that the job will be done to a repeatable and high standard. This could be franchised out to yards or mobile operators.

Question for bottom-paint DIYers - If you know you'd be getting a good job done, what's the annual price per foot of LWL at which you'd give up doing the bottom work yourself, and let a franchised operator do it?

Just wondering...

It's no wonder why trailerable sailboats hold their value better.

Word.

Still deep in love with our little trailerable boat, though I have also started looking for a bigger 'project' boat to rebuild... in a DIY yard of course.

 

[Stu Jackson]

kenn, good question.

I would ask it a little differently:

How much does one save by doing their own bottom job?

Really. Can someone do the math for me? Savings on two gallons of paint, then labor.

In all cases, it would seem that the haulout fees, bottom pressure wash, and the environmental fees, would be exactly the same.

If that's the case, and if you agree, then what are the real savings. You can also choose to include or not the "value" of your own labor.

I look forward to learning about the economies.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Answer to Ken's question - $8 - $10 per LWL foot per year

Answer to Stu's question - my last haul that I was so happy with included a few intangibles that are impossible to price. I was given 2 gallons of Pettit Trinidad by a guy who owed me a favor. I had no problem with the yard doing bottom paint work, didn't think they'd do an inferior job or anything but that paint did me a lot more good on the bottom than in the can so with their approval I prepped the bottom and painted on 2 coats before they applied their contractual single coat.

They benefited a little too because I was paying a fixed price for a haul and bottom paint and they didn't have to expend labor on the prep work.

So regarding bottom paint, I'd let the yard do it in a heartbeat. The thru-hulls and valves I replaced are another matter. As my background is in fiberglass boatbuilding (worked at 4 SoCal sailboat plants), I'm doing that work to my standards, period. That way I know what sealant is used, how clean the hull is before application of the sealant, how tight everything's made up and where the seacock handles point when it's all done.

Sanding, masking and painting the topsides, same thing. I'm doing it. After begging unsuccessfully I relented and applied the paint with the roll and tip technique rather than my preferred method, spraying. That was a case of their field, their rules, no spraying.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Stu,
Last time I paid $20/ft for the yard to haul, pressure wash, sand, mask and paint mine. Waterline is 21.5' so $430 plus tax.
Had I done it myself:
$135 haul out and in
$220 for paint and supplies
$40 @ $10/day yard time x4
$20 gas for supplies, back and forth to the yard.
$415 plus tax

I'd have saved $15 by doing it myself. The yard has to deal with a hell of a lot of stuff for the little money they made off of me.
I had considered a trailer but I'd have to store the trailer and that's $50/month + tax.
Did that for a while with a pontoon boat trailer until my Mrs smacked me in the head and pointed out I had paid more in storage than I'd paid for the trailer new!
Doh!

 

[Hermit Scott]

I agree with the marinas that are probably price gouging everyone. Last time I went to Sizzler I had to eat their steaks, I couldn't bring my own. Go to Midas, they buy the parts from the same place you can buy them and then their policy it to mark it up 2-1/2 times. (my partner owned all the Midas shops in town)
There is two ways for the boat yard maintenance to make money, 1 charge you labor,2 charge extra for the parts. They are a business and there to make money. How would you like it if there was no yard at all. It's capitalism. It's not perfect but it's what we got.
AND living on the coast costs money. If you don't like it move to the middle of the country where people go that gave up on their dreams.
I'm half way joking about the moving thing. I am quite poor and love being able to have a slip for $168 a month. I had to be on a waiting list for a year to get that. The other option could have been, they keep raising prices until there is no waiting list.