Happy New Year to All! I'm trying to decide between a Hunter 326 and a Catalina 310. One of the differences I see is weight...the Catalina weighs about 2000 lbs more than the Hunter. I would assume the Hunter would perform better under light wind conditions, but I was wondering if the heavier boat would cut through chop better? Can anyone provide some input? Thanks! Scott
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Hunter vs. Catalina
I would let the prevailing conditions decide for you. I currently own a 310 and am very happy with it. The Hunter is lighter and carries a much fuller main. In my opinion, the lighter weight and fuller main make this design more tender. We owned a Hunter with the B
I would let the prevailing conditions decide for you. I currently own a 310 and am very happy with it. The Hunter is lighter and carries a much fuller main. In my opinion, the lighter weight and fuller main make this design more tender. We owned a Hunter with the B
look at all factors
I don't know if you have compared all performance related factors - usually the heavier boat will carry more sail - look at the ratios.
I don't know if you have compared all performance related factors - usually the heavier boat will carry more sail - look at the ratios.
B
Thanks for all your input. The Hunter 326 has about the same sail area as the Catalina 310. As for the B
Thanks for all your input. The Hunter 326 has about the same sail area as the Catalina 310. As for the B
Scott, I fully agree with that statement, but ....
it pays to distinguish between different points of sail in heavy weather, namely: running, reaching or beating. When running off heavier vessels, particularly full-keeled ones (which the Catalina is not, of course) are hard to beat in terms of stability against yawing and pitching (if the weight is properly distributed). Their initial resistance against rolling depends largely on beam width and ballast depth and is not necessarily all that great in the classical narrow-beamed, shallow ballast vessels. When trying to sail on a beam reach in heavy weather (something to avoid unless you are trying to reach a particular destination) both lighter and heavier vessels do have their own sets of problems and advantages and it becomes a matter of preference, IMHO. However, when you need to beat into wind and waves in heavy weather you will find very few experienced sailors who consider greater weight an advantage. Sure, the heavier vessel will pierce the waves more efficiently but the same inertia that keeps it going into the wave also prevents it from accelerating rapidly within the few seconds it can do so between waves. Plus for the same hull shape greater weight will mean greater wetted area and more drag. Full-keeled heavier vessels basically don't go to wind very well. Hence the old adage "Gentlemen don't sail to weather", which certainly does not seem to apply to the gentlemen on this board who sail B
it pays to distinguish between different points of sail in heavy weather, namely: running, reaching or beating. When running off heavier vessels, particularly full-keeled ones (which the Catalina is not, of course) are hard to beat in terms of stability against yawing and pitching (if the weight is properly distributed). Their initial resistance against rolling depends largely on beam width and ballast depth and is not necessarily all that great in the classical narrow-beamed, shallow ballast vessels. When trying to sail on a beam reach in heavy weather (something to avoid unless you are trying to reach a particular destination) both lighter and heavier vessels do have their own sets of problems and advantages and it becomes a matter of preference, IMHO. However, when you need to beat into wind and waves in heavy weather you will find very few experienced sailors who consider greater weight an advantage. Sure, the heavier vessel will pierce the waves more efficiently but the same inertia that keeps it going into the wave also prevents it from accelerating rapidly within the few seconds it can do so between waves. Plus for the same hull shape greater weight will mean greater wetted area and more drag. Full-keeled heavier vessels basically don't go to wind very well. Hence the old adage "Gentlemen don't sail to weather", which certainly does not seem to apply to the gentlemen on this board who sail B
Hmmm...ok Henk..I agree on some
extent but he asked if the heavier boat would be able to cut through the chop a little better....and yes it would AND be more conmfortable doing it...... I am not saying that it would make it faster than a J-boat...obviously they will be faster on ANY point of sail. And let me ask you Henk....Aren't there times when you *have* to sail into the wind?....I don't know where you sail but the winds where I am are not *always* on the perfect point of sail to my destination...;-) "Gentleman don't sail to weather", but sometimes they do have to sail home and the wind will be on thier nose... And if you are not racing what about comfort out on the water?....Doesn't that have importance (well it does to me).....If I was going to be out for more than a few hours I'd rather have the one with better "Motion Comfort" Motion Comfort: There was a formula developed by the Yacht designer Ted Brewer and is meant to compare the motion comfort of boats of similar size and types. There is a Range from 5 to 60 with a Whitby 42 at the mid 30's. The higher the number the more comfort in a sea...... So Scott for some real good input on sailing characteristics take a look at the web site link I listed....It has some excellent resources on boat parameter of various sailboats. You can even add a boat parameters yourself and see where it falls relative to other boats (And Gentlemen don't sail in ultralights)....;-)
extent but he asked if the heavier boat would be able to cut through the chop a little better....and yes it would AND be more conmfortable doing it...... I am not saying that it would make it faster than a J-boat...obviously they will be faster on ANY point of sail. And let me ask you Henk....Aren't there times when you *have* to sail into the wind?....I don't know where you sail but the winds where I am are not *always* on the perfect point of sail to my destination...;-) "Gentleman don't sail to weather", but sometimes they do have to sail home and the wind will be on thier nose... And if you are not racing what about comfort out on the water?....Doesn't that have importance (well it does to me).....If I was going to be out for more than a few hours I'd rather have the one with better "Motion Comfort" Motion Comfort: There was a formula developed by the Yacht designer Ted Brewer and is meant to compare the motion comfort of boats of similar size and types. There is a Range from 5 to 60 with a Whitby 42 at the mid 30's. The higher the number the more comfort in a sea...... So Scott for some real good input on sailing characteristics take a look at the web site link I listed....It has some excellent resources on boat parameter of various sailboats. You can even add a boat parameters yourself and see where it falls relative to other boats (And Gentlemen don't sail in ultralights)....;-)
Tom, what you read
are 2 different things. What I said was that the gentlemen on this board who sail B
are 2 different things. What I said was that the gentlemen on this board who sail B
320/326 Performance
Scott, I have a 320 which is the same hull as the "new" 326, and so far I am very happy with it's performance. I have an APC that I use in light air (bought from Phil at this web site), and it pulls the boat along well. I am buying a light-air 125 for racing to go along with the heavy 110 supplied with the boat. I also looked at the Catalina when I was shopping, but price, layout, and headroom put me in a Hunter. It basically comes down to what you want to use the boat for and your preferences. If you do decide on a Hunter, let me know and I'll suggest a few options that I learned were good to have. Steve
Scott, I have a 320 which is the same hull as the "new" 326, and so far I am very happy with it's performance. I have an APC that I use in light air (bought from Phil at this web site), and it pulls the boat along well. I am buying a light-air 125 for racing to go along with the heavy 110 supplied with the boat. I also looked at the Catalina when I was shopping, but price, layout, and headroom put me in a Hunter. It basically comes down to what you want to use the boat for and your preferences. If you do decide on a Hunter, let me know and I'll suggest a few options that I learned were good to have. Steve
Ratios make the 326 more racey
I ran some performance ratios on these two fine boats. They indicate designs with significantly different objectives: The Catalina 310 has a displacement/length of 245 - this is right in the classic cruising range, as is the Sail Area/Displacement ratio of 16.5. The higher displacement and overhang (percent amount that LOA exceeds LWL) forecast a smoother ride. With a displacement/length of 164, Sail Area/Displacement of 21.1, and longer waterline, the Hunter 326 will have faster acceleration, and higher speed potential in most winds. David Lady Lillie
I ran some performance ratios on these two fine boats. They indicate designs with significantly different objectives: The Catalina 310 has a displacement/length of 245 - this is right in the classic cruising range, as is the Sail Area/Displacement ratio of 16.5. The higher displacement and overhang (percent amount that LOA exceeds LWL) forecast a smoother ride. With a displacement/length of 164, Sail Area/Displacement of 21.1, and longer waterline, the Hunter 326 will have faster acceleration, and higher speed potential in most winds. David Lady Lillie
spinnaker with B
I have enjoyed a spinnaker (albeit an asymmetrical-- made by UK in Annapolis) first on my Hunter29 and most recently on my Hunter 376. No problem using the assymetrical downwind and incidentally, it makes a terrific genoa as well! The B
I have enjoyed a spinnaker (albeit an asymmetrical-- made by UK in Annapolis) first on my Hunter29 and most recently on my Hunter 376. No problem using the assymetrical downwind and incidentally, it makes a terrific genoa as well! The B
Caution: Comparing sail area!
Be careful comparing Hunters with other boats when using performance numbers involving sail area. Unlike most boats, Hunter often lists actual sail area, instead of using the sail plan with 100% foretriangle. This results in inflated numbers. As an example, HunterOwners.com lists the sail area of the Hunter 326 at 540 square feet actual. This seems more than the C310’s 494. But the Hunter’s main and jib luffs are 3 to 5 feet shorter. The mainsail foot is several inches shorter as well. My calculations show the Hunter’s sail area to be about 437 when calculated using the traditional method. Note: Waterline lengths can be tricky also, static vs effective and such.
Be careful comparing Hunters with other boats when using performance numbers involving sail area. Unlike most boats, Hunter often lists actual sail area, instead of using the sail plan with 100% foretriangle. This results in inflated numbers. As an example, HunterOwners.com lists the sail area of the Hunter 326 at 540 square feet actual. This seems more than the C310’s 494. But the Hunter’s main and jib luffs are 3 to 5 feet shorter. The mainsail foot is several inches shorter as well. My calculations show the Hunter’s sail area to be about 437 when calculated using the traditional method. Note: Waterline lengths can be tricky also, static vs effective and such.
Hunter 326 is still faster
If I take your sail area of 437 sq feet, it still has a higher SA/D ratio than the Catalina. I didn't take the revised area for the Catalina 310. But one of the key advantages of the B
If I take your sail area of 437 sq feet, it still has a higher SA/D ratio than the Catalina. I didn't take the revised area for the Catalina 310. But one of the key advantages of the B
Different boat for different folks
I was running our C-36 against a similar sized Hunter just above Newport. We were reaching upwind in fairly light air, 6 to 8 knts. I was falling several boatlenghts behind. The Hunter's rig was very efficient. I couldn't even blame my problem on bad helmsmenship. I have a ST6000 autopilot and it will sail the boat on a desired point of wind. That boat was just good in light air. As we were rounding the bottom of Prudence Island into a more open part of the bay, we came out of the lee of the island, the wind picked up to 12 or 14 knts. So did the chop... We picked up the boatlenghts and pulled ahead. In a light wind race I know the Hunter would kick my butt... The C-36 takes more wind to move her, there's no question. I had a new respect for the Hunter after that. Would I buy one? No, but I wouldn't buy a Hinckley either, even if I had the money. Different strokes..... Regards, Chris
I was running our C-36 against a similar sized Hunter just above Newport. We were reaching upwind in fairly light air, 6 to 8 knts. I was falling several boatlenghts behind. The Hunter's rig was very efficient. I couldn't even blame my problem on bad helmsmenship. I have a ST6000 autopilot and it will sail the boat on a desired point of wind. That boat was just good in light air. As we were rounding the bottom of Prudence Island into a more open part of the bay, we came out of the lee of the island, the wind picked up to 12 or 14 knts. So did the chop... We picked up the boatlenghts and pulled ahead. In a light wind race I know the Hunter would kick my butt... The C-36 takes more wind to move her, there's no question. I had a new respect for the Hunter after that. Would I buy one? No, but I wouldn't buy a Hinckley either, even if I had the money. Different strokes..... Regards, Chris
Speedy C-36
I am a diehard Hunter fan, but I must confess to having raced a C-36 for quite awhile in San Diego (all types of wind, including light), and that boat was FAAAAAAAAAAAST! It surprised the daylights out of me, since we didn't even have great sails, but there you are. I have always thought that you would be hard pressed to find a better thirty-six footer, but maybe that is because I also liked the layout. BTW the ratios for my Cherubini 33 are almost exactly the same as for that C320 mentioned way back in this thread. Similar basic single spreader, double lowers rig. Nice overhangs, too! Let's go sailing!
I am a diehard Hunter fan, but I must confess to having raced a C-36 for quite awhile in San Diego (all types of wind, including light), and that boat was FAAAAAAAAAAAST! It surprised the daylights out of me, since we didn't even have great sails, but there you are. I have always thought that you would be hard pressed to find a better thirty-six footer, but maybe that is because I also liked the layout. BTW the ratios for my Cherubini 33 are almost exactly the same as for that C320 mentioned way back in this thread. Similar basic single spreader, double lowers rig. Nice overhangs, too! Let's go sailing!
Catalinas Havn't Changed
Ahh... from Tim's post I see why Hunter people have talked about the Great Cherubini-Hunters.....because they were built tough like Catalinas Still Are. Although the sterns have gotten wider the new Catalina's are still built like they were years ago with heavy solid glass hulls and same heavy B/D ratio to keep them punching through the chop with a sensible sail plan that just gets better when fed some fuel/wind. The old classic c27 and c30 lovers even say that Catalina has bent to marketing to follow the trendy stuff, but while the boats have become more livable they are still built tough enough to take the serious pounding with a tried and true balance of weight and performance. By the way Tim the c320 is double spreader which I don't think is a bad thing. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Ahh... from Tim's post I see why Hunter people have talked about the Great Cherubini-Hunters.....because they were built tough like Catalinas Still Are. Although the sterns have gotten wider the new Catalina's are still built like they were years ago with heavy solid glass hulls and same heavy B/D ratio to keep them punching through the chop with a sensible sail plan that just gets better when fed some fuel/wind. The old classic c27 and c30 lovers even say that Catalina has bent to marketing to follow the trendy stuff, but while the boats have become more livable they are still built tough enough to take the serious pounding with a tried and true balance of weight and performance. By the way Tim the c320 is double spreader which I don't think is a bad thing. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
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