What should I look for if I purchase a sailboat for potential long range cruising? Does the hull need to be strethened? What is the essential equipment needed? How much water for two persons for 1 month? Are there any books that would be good reading on this subject? I am looking at this 45' Hardin Ketch that the owner was preparng for blue water but family would not let him go. See the ad with the link. The broer says the seller will take $95K but I was thinking of offering $85K. It seems to be well equipped but I am not sure what else is needed. Any information is appreciated~!! Terry
Boat Upgrades, Equipment, Supplies for Long Cruise
- Thread starter Tai Chi Sailor
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Upgrades, equipment, supplies
The first thing you need is a marine surveyor. Make certain you write that into your sales agreement so you can withdraw with all of your money in case the surveyor finds major problems. Then you'll know the condition of the equipment you'll already have. If the watermaker is that new, just bring a spare filter. Two people can survive on 60 gallons for a month if need be. Bigger issues will be the hull and keel, standing and running rigging, and condition of the sails.
The first thing you need is a marine surveyor. Make certain you write that into your sales agreement so you can withdraw with all of your money in case the surveyor finds major problems. Then you'll know the condition of the equipment you'll already have. If the watermaker is that new, just bring a spare filter. Two people can survive on 60 gallons for a month if need be. Bigger issues will be the hull and keel, standing and running rigging, and condition of the sails.
Cockpit
My two cents follow.... The cockpit is where I spend 90% of mine time when sailing or at the dock (if I'm not working on something or sleeping). The cockpit on this boat seems kind of small for the size of the boat and too boxed in for me. It also seems like it's hard to sail. Other then that, it looks like a good boat from my livingroom
It does have a lot of attributes many look for in a blue water boat such as the ssb, radar, gps, large fuel and water tanks, full keel and heavy displacement. It doesn't say how much sail it has, but my gut tells me it doesn't sail good in light winds. It's strenght: heavy winds and nice live aboard. Weakness: manuverability in tight spots, light winds, short handed sailing.
My two cents follow.... The cockpit is where I spend 90% of mine time when sailing or at the dock (if I'm not working on something or sleeping). The cockpit on this boat seems kind of small for the size of the boat and too boxed in for me. It also seems like it's hard to sail. Other then that, it looks like a good boat from my livingroom
It does have a lot of attributes many look for in a blue water boat such as the ssb, radar, gps, large fuel and water tanks, full keel and heavy displacement. It doesn't say how much sail it has, but my gut tells me it doesn't sail good in light winds. It's strenght: heavy winds and nice live aboard. Weakness: manuverability in tight spots, light winds, short handed sailing.
Thats a $150K boat
if all equipment works and well maintained. So I assume it has some issues.Figure the sails will need replacing, probably 4000 hours on engine, same with generator. Hasn't been out of the water for a few years, so is going to need a haul and paint. Looks like the cockpit enclosure is tired. There is reference to a wooden mast, which I don't know anything about. I would guess you'll want to spend $30,000 on repairs/stuff. So buget that in. Unless you are moving up from a 35 footer, I would go real slow in the process of getting a 36,000 lbs 45 footer. Want to upgrade the anchor and rode? It's not a $500 project, think $2,000. Always think $1,000s not $100s for cost of ownership for a boat like this.
if all equipment works and well maintained. So I assume it has some issues.Figure the sails will need replacing, probably 4000 hours on engine, same with generator. Hasn't been out of the water for a few years, so is going to need a haul and paint. Looks like the cockpit enclosure is tired. There is reference to a wooden mast, which I don't know anything about. I would guess you'll want to spend $30,000 on repairs/stuff. So buget that in. Unless you are moving up from a 35 footer, I would go real slow in the process of getting a 36,000 lbs 45 footer. Want to upgrade the anchor and rode? It's not a $500 project, think $2,000. Always think $1,000s not $100s for cost of ownership for a boat like this.
Two others for sale
The one for $89K appears to be in better shape than the one you looking at. The other for $154K is ready for cruising and lists all the recent upgrades that will give you an idea of what projects you may have to do to a 25 year old boat that hasn't been well maintained. http://www.boat-world.com/boatads/1155661404.html http://www.islandyachtbrokers.com/45%201981%20Hardin/45%201981%20Hardin.htm
The one for $89K appears to be in better shape than the one you looking at. The other for $154K is ready for cruising and lists all the recent upgrades that will give you an idea of what projects you may have to do to a 25 year old boat that hasn't been well maintained. http://www.boat-world.com/boatads/1155661404.html http://www.islandyachtbrokers.com/45%201981%20Hardin/45%201981%20Hardin.htm
Boat upgrades
1) If you purchase a blue water boat in good condition the hull should not need to be stiffened - unless there is a problem such as delamination. A surveyor is essential here. 2) If you really intend to do long term/distance cruising you need to seriously address the following areas: A) electrical needs and means of producing/storing power; B) Water needs with several way to capture/produce as well as store it; C) Storage capacity for food, clothes, spare parts, tools, just to mention a few; D) Communications (SSB, satelite, VHF/FM, cell phone, internet are some of the options); E)A means of getting around when leaving the boat (dinghy & outboard as well as some means of land transportation, such as a bicycle); F) Ground tackle (I'm talking serious ground tackle and back ups here); G) Entertainment and space for mounting and storing books, CD's, etc.; H) Safety, and I don't mean just lifejackets; I) Maintainence and repair, both the means (tools & materials) as well as the ability. There are entire books on each of the items mentioned above, and, not knowing your experience, this can seem quite daunting. AND we haven't even started talking about the boat or your ability. The boat "looks" to be in good condition however pictures lie. Since the boat is an older boat you should have the rig gone over and possible replace the standing rigging. All systems need to be evaluated. Remember you boat will be your home and it will not be possible to pull off the road for repairs or to let bad weather pass. The comment made about the cockpit beeing too small may be valid for coastal/protected waters cruisers but it is actually an advantage for a blue water boat and must be fitted with really efficient drains. In short, a blue water boat should be able to be turned upside down and not ship a drop of water through and lockers or other openings. Please forgive the length of this response however a lot of preperation and knowledge is required for blue water cruising. It cannot be quickly aquired. I have a Legend 35.5, a coastal cruiser. I spent 1 and 1/2 years getting it ready for a 9 month cruise to the Flordia Keys last winter. And that was mostly in protected water. Get a good boat (the one you are looking at may be it) and start sailing it. You will find out what needs to be done and what equipment you want on board. And read everything you can get your hands on. Good Luck
1) If you purchase a blue water boat in good condition the hull should not need to be stiffened - unless there is a problem such as delamination. A surveyor is essential here. 2) If you really intend to do long term/distance cruising you need to seriously address the following areas: A) electrical needs and means of producing/storing power; B) Water needs with several way to capture/produce as well as store it; C) Storage capacity for food, clothes, spare parts, tools, just to mention a few; D) Communications (SSB, satelite, VHF/FM, cell phone, internet are some of the options); E)A means of getting around when leaving the boat (dinghy & outboard as well as some means of land transportation, such as a bicycle); F) Ground tackle (I'm talking serious ground tackle and back ups here); G) Entertainment and space for mounting and storing books, CD's, etc.; H) Safety, and I don't mean just lifejackets; I) Maintainence and repair, both the means (tools & materials) as well as the ability. There are entire books on each of the items mentioned above, and, not knowing your experience, this can seem quite daunting. AND we haven't even started talking about the boat or your ability. The boat "looks" to be in good condition however pictures lie. Since the boat is an older boat you should have the rig gone over and possible replace the standing rigging. All systems need to be evaluated. Remember you boat will be your home and it will not be possible to pull off the road for repairs or to let bad weather pass. The comment made about the cockpit beeing too small may be valid for coastal/protected waters cruisers but it is actually an advantage for a blue water boat and must be fitted with really efficient drains. In short, a blue water boat should be able to be turned upside down and not ship a drop of water through and lockers or other openings. Please forgive the length of this response however a lot of preperation and knowledge is required for blue water cruising. It cannot be quickly aquired. I have a Legend 35.5, a coastal cruiser. I spent 1 and 1/2 years getting it ready for a 9 month cruise to the Flordia Keys last winter. And that was mostly in protected water. Get a good boat (the one you are looking at may be it) and start sailing it. You will find out what needs to be done and what equipment you want on board. And read everything you can get your hands on. Good Luck
Cost of Ownership is the Key!
The initial purchase price of a boat is but a drop in the bucket when estimating the cost ownership. You are looking at veritable money pit here! Do some more home work. Most of questions you are asking can be answered quickly with a bit of homework. 1. 45' ketch rig 32,000# boat is too much to handle for a crew of 2. 2. Better buy stock in a varnish company. 3. Plan on taking a lot of time 'cause if the wind ain't blowing good you are going to do a lot motoring. How fast will it go with the iron sail? Put aside about $15K (min)to repower in a few years. 4. Why not get a good modern 36' to 40' boat (its in your budget) then enjoy sailing instead of constantly maintaining an albatros. This boat will break your bank acount in a hurry!
The initial purchase price of a boat is but a drop in the bucket when estimating the cost ownership. You are looking at veritable money pit here! Do some more home work. Most of questions you are asking can be answered quickly with a bit of homework. 1. 45' ketch rig 32,000# boat is too much to handle for a crew of 2. 2. Better buy stock in a varnish company. 3. Plan on taking a lot of time 'cause if the wind ain't blowing good you are going to do a lot motoring. How fast will it go with the iron sail? Put aside about $15K (min)to repower in a few years. 4. Why not get a good modern 36' to 40' boat (its in your budget) then enjoy sailing instead of constantly maintaining an albatros. This boat will break your bank acount in a hurry!
work or sail
Wow that link shows a nice boat at 150000. I had a small boat with some wood and will never buy another boat with wood. I spent so much time making it look great and loved all the people walking buy telling me it was beautiful and than noticed I hardly sailed it and for me that is why I bought it. Also I asked a blue water question some time ago and got the answer how much blue water are you really going to be in and after looking into the question long and hard it was more costal. The boat looks great but older means allot more expensive and you will need a open check book on a boat like that to keep it up, do you have one, Also do you know how to do electrical, wood working, teaking, caulking, and the list goes on. A new modern boat in the same price range will be faster, maybe less work if its all glass, and even then you will still have more than enough to tinker with.
Wow that link shows a nice boat at 150000. I had a small boat with some wood and will never buy another boat with wood. I spent so much time making it look great and loved all the people walking buy telling me it was beautiful and than noticed I hardly sailed it and for me that is why I bought it. Also I asked a blue water question some time ago and got the answer how much blue water are you really going to be in and after looking into the question long and hard it was more costal. The boat looks great but older means allot more expensive and you will need a open check book on a boat like that to keep it up, do you have one, Also do you know how to do electrical, wood working, teaking, caulking, and the list goes on. A new modern boat in the same price range will be faster, maybe less work if its all glass, and even then you will still have more than enough to tinker with.
Thanks for the input
I want to thank all of you for your input and I am considering it all before I purchase. I am close to making a decision and hope I make a good one. I will be on and off the forum in the future and really like it. Thanks again~!!!
I want to thank all of you for your input and I am considering it all before I purchase. I am close to making a decision and hope I make a good one. I will be on and off the forum in the future and really like it. Thanks again~!!!
upkeep
I purchased a boat intended for blue water in december, 6 months later the cost has doubled, and it looked good on the survey.
I purchased a boat intended for blue water in december, 6 months later the cost has doubled, and it looked good on the survey.
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