Boat to cross Atlantic

[Hmm]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Hello

I'm interested in buying a smallish sailboat to be sailed mostly single handed. After spending some years sailing around Med, I want to cross Atlantic to the Caribbean and sail around for a year, then back to Med. The price for the boat that I can afford is highest €15.000. What I have read in internet, I came to an understanding that a Beneteau First 30, Jeanneau Rush 30, Dufour Arpege or a She 31 can be the boat I am looking for. What do you think of these boats? Any better yet suitably priced boats out there? What are the pros and cons of these two? Where would you suggest me to search for boats that are reasonably priced?
Thanks all in advance

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[Roger Long]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]The price for the boat that I can afford is highest €15.000. [/FONT]

Does that mean that you have 30 grand cash on hand or 15? If the later, than the most you can spend for the boat is about 7 to prepare for a trip like this and that will just be to get you through the first day of the trip.

You are looking at fairly common and well know boats. In this price range, you'll probably get more boat by seeking out something with less name recognition. There were a lot of older fiberglass boats that were built like tanks. My Endeavour 32 is one. I bought her for 15 K USD and would make this trip in her but has put more than twice her purchase price into her in the last 5 years. She would still be considered pretty minimal for such a voyage by most people who undertake this kind of cruise.

A windvane would be a must but you should look at a later model E 32 (without a centerboard). They usually go for considerably less than comparable boats and are very comfortable and well behaved as well as being designed for comfort in hot climates.

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Boat.htm

 

[Ed Schenck]

Have to agree with Roger, something heavier and stronger would be safer and more sea-kindly. Have no idea what 15000 euros buys along the Med coast. I assume you mean to purchase the boat there. Shipping a boat from anywhere other than the Med would use up 15K in a hurry.

 

[Hmm]

Does that mean that you have 30 grand cash on hand or 15? If the later, than the most you can spend for the boat is about 7 to prepare for a trip like this and that will just be to get you through the first day of the trip.

You are looking at fairly common and well know boats. In this price range, you'll probably get more boat by seeking out something with less name recognition. There were a lot of older fiberglass boats that were built like tanks. My Endeavour 32 is one. I bought her for 15 K USD and would make this trip in her but has put more than twice her purchase price into her in the last 5 years. She would still be considered pretty minimal for such a voyage by most people who undertake this kind of cruise.

A windvane would be a must but you should look at a later model E 32 (without a centerboard). They usually go for considerably less than comparable boats and are very comfortable and well behaved as well as being designed for comfort in hot climates.

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Boat.htm

Just curious, do you have any extended coastal cruising or offshore experience?

Hi and thank you
Well, I have about 15k at the moment but if I can find a boat that can be trusted, I'm not planning to leave right away. I will be sailing near home for some years and find out what needs to be repaired or replaced and I will try my best to make it a fine boat that I could put my life in it...
I hoped I could be fine with a tiller pilot since windvanes are so expensive... What's your opinions on this?
I will start reading about E32s right away. I hope they are awailable in Europe ,too

 

[Ed Schenck]

Ideally you would find a boat already outfitted including the windvane. Someone moving up from an already ocean ready boat for example. You might want both, a tiller pilot will work for motoring. But tiller pilots use a lot of battery power. So now you have the expense of a solid battery bank and some way to keep it charged.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I would start such an open-ended search by first familiarizing yourself with various sailboat ratios, like stability and motion comfort, which will tell you a lot about any of the models you may be interested in:

http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__sad_ratio.htm

 

[Roger Long]

I hoped I could be fine with a tiller pilot since windvanes are so expensive... What's your opinions on this?

A windvane is a must unless you have crew to stand watches or a much higher capacity electrical system than you are likely to have in a boat of the size and price you are considering. There is too much that can go wrong with electronics and having to hand steer from the middle of the ocean could slow you down enough to put you in real danger from supplies running low and fatigue. Windvanes are also much quieter.

A windvane develops more power as wind and boat speed increase. By the time you buy a tiller pilot that can handle a boat of the size you are considering and put in all the batteries, solar, chargers, etc. to keep it running, you will have spent nearly a good proportion of the cost of a windvane. You'll need 2 - 3 tiller pilot spares. I'm on my third just from coastal cruising and all it does in my rig is tweak the windvane linkage to make the boat follow a compass heading under power.

See my installation here:

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Windvane.htm

 

[sailingdog]

You might want to keep an eye out for the Golden Hind, the Elizabethan series of boats which came in several sizes, the Southern Cross 28 or 31, as these are all fairly well proven bluewater passagemakers.

 

[Bad Obsession]

Another interesting thought is to take that money and purchase a boat in the southern United States (it is only a slight hop from the US to the Caribbean). You could also check out boats in the Caribbean and try to buy one there. It would save you the cost of buying one where you live and outfitting it for a serious blue water crossing.

 

[Roger Long]

Another interesting thought is to take that money and purchase a boat in the southern United States

The very best place to buy in the U.S. is the Great Lakes; especially near Detroit. Fresh water makes a huge, almost unbelievable, difference in how a boat ages. The season is sort there so boats spend a lot of time out of the water. The economy is very depressed so prices are very, very low. You have to make a canal trip out through the New York system but it's very doable and interesting. Given all the restrictions and taxes in Europe, I would be surprised if you didn't get a lot more boat in that part of the world.

Another thought on tiller pilots. They are not intended of un-attended operation but as a convenience while you are sitting there in the cockpit watching them. The Raymarine units don't even have limit switches so, if the sails overpower the rudder due to a wind shift and the unit goes up against the stops and you sleep through it, the motor will burn up. They can even burst into flame. See my web site for how I retrofitted stop switches after burning up two of them.

 

[Hmm]

Roer and Bad Obsession,
Until last week, since about more then a year I was looking only at the boats in US since they are much cheaper there and the market is much bigger. I was especially interested in Alberg 30 and Bristol 29- 32. But, including Saildog, almost everyone told me it was wiser to buy the boat in Europe, then they suggested the boats, and the reasons sounded meaningful like documentation of the boat in US was not possible with USCG but state registration was the only choice and I was told further apart I get from US, less recognised state registration would be. Then, when I get back to Europe, there is all that VAT and CE certification and thats a big amount of money. So, just a few days ago, I just decided to buy the boat in Europe. But, on the other hand, crossing the ocean twice doesn't still sound such a wonderful idea. Being all alone in the middle of ocean is boring but when things get nasty, I certainly might regret what I'm doing so buying the boat in US and crossing the ocean once still sounds like good idea after all. Well, lets see.
I'm having a day off today and searching for boats. I found some Albin Vegas for a reallly reasonable price. But, I also realised, the smaller the boat, the bigger the possibility I regret I left for the voyage.
I believe every word you say about windvane but the price is such a huge amount for a person like me. Can you suggest any place where I could buy an affordable wane? A second hand, may be?

 

[Roger Long]

Can you suggest any place where I could buy an affordable wane? A second hand, may be?

I've never heard of such a thing. It's something that people like so much I don't imagine the get taken off boats very often.

If you bought the boat in the Great Lakes, you could certainly get to the Bahamas and sail around that part of the world without a windvane. It would be a great trip.

International documentation and ownership as a very thorny problem that I don't know much about. I can't help you there. From the paperwork standpoint, I expect there is a lot to be said for buying a boat in your home country.

 

[Bad Obsession]

You could buy the boat in the US....sail around for a while....and then sell it when you are done.

 

[Hmm]

You could buy the boat in the US....sail around for a while....and then sell it when you are done.

Now, that actually is a good idea. And I certainly consider this possibility because I really really like some classic boats in US and some can be very nicely priced for me. But, I was told since I am not a US citizen, I cannot work on my OWN boat to refit it and I have to pay people to do it for me and during my stay in US I can just spend money. Is that true? I can't tighten the screws on my own boat? If that's the case, buying one in US becomes difficult. Any boat that I buy will need some kind of work done for the price I can afford.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I think one of the best places around to buy a decent used and well equipped blue water boat is Panama. Loads of boats left in the care of brokers by owners who came face-to-face with their dreams and changed their minds....

 

[Roger Long]

I was told since I am not a US citizen, I cannot work on my OWN boat to refit it and I have to pay people to do it for me and during my stay in US I can just spend money.

I have never heard such a thing but this is the United States. The Coast Guard is doing everything it can to prevent someone from taking donated relief supplies to Haiti right now.

 

[Hmm]

I think one of the best places around to buy a decent used and well equipped blue water boat is Panama. Loads of boats left in the care of brokers by owners who came face-to-face with their dreams and changed their minds....

Now, that's another very interesting info and thank you very much Do you happen to know any links that lead me to such a broker ? I have heard of that before... Some people like me dream about ocean passages and sailing around the heaven, then after the actuall passage they abandon their boats and go back home by plane... Sad but if true, I could use for my advantage to buy a decent boat for the buck I have

 

[Stu Jackson]

But, I was told since I am not a US citizen, I cannot work on my OWN boat to refit it and I have to pay people to do it for me and during my stay in US I can just spend money. Is that true? I can't tighten the screws on my own boat? If that's the case, buying one in US becomes difficult. Any boat that I buy will need some kind of work done for the price I can afford.

All boats need work. It is preferable to identify who told you that statement, in red, above. Sounds weird to me. Lotsa misinformation out there.

 

[Hmm]

All boats need work. It is preferable to identify who told you that statement, in red, above. Sounds weird to me. Lotsa misinformation out there.

sailingdog

Telstar 28
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 36,008
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I'd be surprised if you can't find an older HR up that neck of the woods. They certainly made enough boats...and most of their boats are very capable. If you consider the costs of flying, staying and buying a boat in the US, you'll find that the slight premium that you pay for buying one in the EU is reasonable. Especially, since importing an older US boat into the EU will be a royal PITA.

Finally, unless you can get a work visa in the US or are a US citizen, buying a boat here means that you're basically not going to be able to work while at the boat, and that you'll have to bear all the costs of room, board and pay for the upgrades and modifications you need done to the boat while in the US. If you bought the boat in the EU, you'd probably be able to get it close enough to you that you could work on it while you were still working.
__________________
Sailingdog

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.​

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)
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[Bad Obsession]

Darn! This is America. Anymore we grant everyone the same rights if they are citizens or Non-Citizens (then again that is a discussion for another forum and another topic). LOL

You may not be able to do work on your boat at certain marinas, depending upon what they say in their policies, but you can always find a marina where you can do your own work on your boat. Furthermore, I know that non US citizens can own property and register property here. You need a fixed address to get stuff sent to and a few other things but it is do-able. Why not check the United States Coast Guard out and speak with them about documenting a boat here if you are a non-citizen.