Boat Survey - when and at what price point?

Stan Breaux · Oct 31, 2013

Under $10,000, it may not make a lot of sense to hire a surveyor.
Your overall risk is relatively low.
But... If the boat has an inboard engine, or if you think there might be a significant potential issue, then it would make sense to go ahead and get a surveyor.

Almost for sure the surveyor will identify specific issues with the boat and may also be able to give you guidance on the price or give you some issues to use to help negotiate a lower price.

I bought a Mac 26 for $7,500 and didnt need a survey at all.

I bought a Catalina 36 for $70k+ and was so far in over my head that I absolutely needed a surveyor.

You could probably expect to pay $500 for a small boat survey and 750+ for a larger boat. Plus potentially extra costs for a haul out, etc if needed.

A pocket cruiser may be a bit cheaper/ easier, but on my Catalina 36 I had to also pay for the halibut so the surveyor could check the hull, and then once the boat was hailed I had to pay for a pressure wash.

Stu Jackson · Oct 31, 2013

Kinda like reefing, if you think you need to do it, do it, don't ask us. You never mentioned what the boat is. Stan's advice is very good. I'd add: a surveyor won't do your engine, so get a separate engine guy.

Here's more:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=102541

Good luck.

Benny17441 · Oct 31, 2013

Where are you keeping the boat? Marinas will regularly require insurance and insurance companies usually require boat surveys. Being the fact that the boat is old I would spring for the survey as you may get your moneys worth by receiving a list of improvements needed and to perhaps facilitate obtaining insurance. Make sure the boat is adequate for your present and foreseeable needs and is fairly priced. Know your abilities as far as being handy with repairs. Try to price those may be beyond your abilities.

fireman416 · Nov 1, 2013

Although I needed a survey for insurance purposes I was glad I had it done as the surveyor can look at the boat from a different perspective and see what your star struck eyes may not. This can be good or bad depending on what they find. As for the price shop around as many I looked at charged by the foot length of the boat. I paid $350.00 for a 32” boat…good luck and enjoy your new boat

Donnybrook · Nov 1, 2013

If by pocket cruiser, you are talking about a boat 25` or less with an outboard and tiller, then no, I wouldn't get a survey. Sounds like you are already a small boat owner, so you should know the basics to look for. Check out Stu's recommendation that has some very good information. Also, if you are a homeowner, some insurance companies automatically cover liability insurance for boats under 25`even if the boat stays in the water in a marina.

py26129 · Nov 1, 2013

I used the link Stu provided when we bought our last boat, without a survey, I might add. It took us about 4 hours to go through the boat from bow to stern and, so far, we have had no nasty surprises.

Be aware that an insurance survey is probably less expensive than a survey to purchase. The purchase surveys are more detailed than insurance surveys.

Cheers

Matt

Steve Dion · Nov 1, 2013

A survey will probably cost about $15 per ft. Most of the time they can save you their fees.

dziedzicmj · Nov 1, 2013

I would always recommend a professional survey. This might be the best $500 you spend on the boat. You can check it thoroughly, but you cannot be completely unbiased if you are planning to buy that boat. A good survey is worth every penny. This does not mean that you should not inspect the boat yourself. If you do, you might save yourself the expense of doing a survey (if you find something that makes you walk away).

Marek

nolasafari · Nov 1, 2013

I spent over a $1000.00 on a lift and survey of a Catalina 30 I had a purchase agreement on, I walked away after speaking with the surveyor, best money I ever spent.

FastOlson · Nov 1, 2013

Yup - get the survey

Steve Dion said:
A survey will probably cost about $15 per ft. Most of the time they can save you their fees.

Donno about the cost per foot in your area, but unless you are buying a TRUE turn-key boat, that survey will not only save some money up front, but will give you a near-future maintenance "road map" as well.

And then, there's insurance and marina's. Neither entity likes risk.
The marina will require proof of insurance. The insurer will very likely require a survey.

And there you are - back at square one again.

Loren

Warren Milberg · Nov 1, 2013

I have mixed views on the value of surveyors. Just about anyone can hang out a shingle calling themselves a surveyor. Some follow NAMS guidelines, some do not. I do not believe there is a national certification authority. That said, I have had professional surveyors look at my last two boats. It was "probably" worth the money (+/- $600). Keep in mind surveyors will find things wrong with any boat. The key is understanding and interpreting what they find. The two most important (to me) things they can determine is the seaworthiness of the hull and deck, and the condition of the standing rigging (and they must go aloft). As Stu notes, get a separate engine mechanic if you are looking at an inboard. The rest of the stuff you can do yourself if you buy a copy of Casey's "Inspecting An Aging Sailboat." It is not hard work or rocket science, but it does take time. If you know how read a moisture meter and are willing to climb the rigging and know how find crevice corrosion, do it yourself. Otherwise, find a surveyor you trust based on the recommendations of other sailors, looking at his/her previous surveys, and making sure they know the model boat you are considering.

shemandr · Nov 3, 2013

I don't know if you should have a survey or not. But I have a little different take on how to decide. Can you move the boat yourself? If not, you will have to rely on a boatyard for repairs and DIY yards are becoming rare as hen's teeth due to insurance. If you have just a few ailments which are common in older sailboats, some wet core in the deck, non-smooth bottom, soft mast step, corroded chainplates, weeping rudder, improperly installed thru-hulls, mis-aligned propeller shaft - strut problems, stuffing box leaking, leaking ports, and on and on, you could easily spend near that $10,000 number. You can't even just walk away as storage charges will accrue and if you decide to cut it up there will be dump fees. When you own a boat, and it is at a marina, the fees clock is always running. Unless you can take it somewhere you don't have to pay to store it, you don't want to buy a problem. I think.

FastOlson · Nov 3, 2013

Most comments are accurate about the several different aspects of finding and vetting a surveyor, and the uses of the resulting survey information.

One additional point to keep in mind, though, is that while the ostensible purpose of a survey is to protect the buyer from an unscrupulous seller (or just a willfully ignorant one) the other equally-important purpose is to protect the buyer from his/her OWN blind romance for the chosen dream boat!
I am not talking about outright discouragement here, but just an honest and unbiased assessment of the proposed purchase, from a person with *no* stake in the sale or finances.

While strangers on the internet can try to be helpful and useful, and many will succeed, only a professional surveyor is legally liable for his/her advice.

Loren

Sailm8 · Nov 3, 2013

One other thought, don't use a surveyor recommended by the broker.

Ross · Nov 3, 2013

I am dealing with trying to sell my boat because my wife's phobias have finally gotten the best of her. I have no expectations of getting anywhere near full value for the boat and will not be offended if a buyer wants a survey but all a survey will do for a buyer is confirm what he can see. The sale will still be decided by whether or not the boat pleases the buyer. The price will be non negotiable.

shemandr · Nov 3, 2013

Sailm8 said:
One other thought, don't use a surveyor recommended by the broker.

Definitely. Nevertheless they (Brokers, surveyors and yards) all know one another in an area. They have relationships which precede and will survive your deal. The notion that a surveyor operates independently is naive. It is basically a referral business.

Ross · Nov 3, 2013

I think that we should at least presume that the surveyor has at least as much integrity as we have. A valuation for sale price could be influenced by associations but a survey for quality should be only suspect for the ability of the surveyor.

BobM · Nov 3, 2013

A survey of a $9500 boat saved me from buying a boat from a wonderful old guy but which turned out to have the most saturated decks the surveyor had ever seen. The surveyor cut me some slack when he surveyed my boat and actually saved me from even giving another boat a thought, as he had looked at it for someone else. The education alone was worth the money. Just be absolutely sure to get someone who knows sailboats. Someone on S2owners posted that their surveyor was complaining he couldn't find the keel bolts...when it is obvious after five minutes on the internet or by the deep aft bilge that it had an integral keel (no bolts).

FastOlson · Nov 4, 2013

A plan C, perhaps

shemandr said:
Definitely. Nevertheless they (Brokers, surveyors and yards) all know one another in an area. They have relationships which precede and will survive your deal. The notion that a surveyor operates independently is naive. It is basically a referral business.

While that's true, there are sometimes ways to find a good person, with the proper approach.
Back in the 80's we were buying a boat up in BC, and although we had no special concerns about the "short list" of surveyor names we received from the seller, it was a lot of money for us and a long way aways...

So, I called a couple of the largest banks in the area (Victoria, BC) and spoke to their loan officer(s). I explained that I needed an unbiased referral to someone trustworthy to survey a sailboat in their back yard. My theory was, and I explained it to the person at the bank, was that I was curious as to whose survey they would trust before potentially lending out their bank's money on a purchase.

After a chuckle, each gave me a short number of names and said they liked my cautious approach.
One of the names was on both lists, and he did the survey and his work was thorough.
He missed very little, and we had that boat for a decade and if he'd missed anything we'd have found out.

My experience, FWIW.

Loren