I am starting to search for the next boat. One criteria is that the boat should be competitive as an occasional club/PHRF racer. As I review boat specs, how do ballast to displacement, displacement to length, and sail area to displacement ratios relate to speed?
Boat Specs and Speed
- Thread starter MDO
- Start date
- Status
The simple answer is they don't. The complicated answer is they all inter-relate but a thorough explanation of each and how they interact may be best left to an internet search of hull design.
Mosy local PHRF committees post ratings of all boats . This link might help in lieu of your local sources and might give you a relative idea of boat speed.
http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/base_handicaps
Mosy local PHRF committees post ratings of all boats . This link might help in lieu of your local sources and might give you a relative idea of boat speed.
http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/base_handicaps
See for yourself.
Most club PHRF charts give you that information. Or at least some of it. Pick your boat from this list: http://www.sailors.com/sfbay/racing/phrf-sf.html
If you Google 'PHRF' and add something about your lake or region you will find numbers closer to home.
At the risk of oversimplifying we know that the main factor in calculating max boat speed is waterlength or LWL. Then if we add sail area to displacement or SAD we can get a pretty good picture. My own H37C at 18000# and a PHRF of 126 can be compared to the H37 Legend with a similar sail area. At 13000# that boat has a PHRF of 99. As Don points out there are certainly a lot of other pieces to the puzzle.
My own experience is that I often see boats with 220 finish ahead of boats with 180. And you know what that difference is.
Most club PHRF charts give you that information. Or at least some of it. Pick your boat from this list: http://www.sailors.com/sfbay/racing/phrf-sf.html
If you Google 'PHRF' and add something about your lake or region you will find numbers closer to home.
At the risk of oversimplifying we know that the main factor in calculating max boat speed is waterlength or LWL. Then if we add sail area to displacement or SAD we can get a pretty good picture. My own H37C at 18000# and a PHRF of 126 can be compared to the H37 Legend with a similar sail area. At 13000# that boat has a PHRF of 99. As Don points out there are certainly a lot of other pieces to the puzzle.
My own experience is that I often see boats with 220 finish ahead of boats with 180. And you know what that difference is.
As Far As Ratings
...the idea is that they equalize boats based upon calculated, observed and corrected results. In theory (under PHRF), you should have an equal chance to trophy sailing a Westsail 32 or a J30. It also includes the results of skilled crew, effective boat management and optimized equipment. If you are simply looking for a fast boat relative to others, PHRF handicaps are a great place to look. Of course, you can also race one-design. For that, you'll have to check with the local fleets to see what they have to offer.
Some areas offer a less formal 'cruiser' series that offers more competition amongst boats that are largely oriented to cruising. They typically restrict the use of sail material, give allowances for cruising gear, and give offsets for jib overlap, furling gear, etc.
The best way to find out more is to be a guest at a local yacht club and pick their racer's brains on their opinions.
...the idea is that they equalize boats based upon calculated, observed and corrected results. In theory (under PHRF), you should have an equal chance to trophy sailing a Westsail 32 or a J30. It also includes the results of skilled crew, effective boat management and optimized equipment. If you are simply looking for a fast boat relative to others, PHRF handicaps are a great place to look. Of course, you can also race one-design. For that, you'll have to check with the local fleets to see what they have to offer.
Some areas offer a less formal 'cruiser' series that offers more competition amongst boats that are largely oriented to cruising. They typically restrict the use of sail material, give allowances for cruising gear, and give offsets for jib overlap, furling gear, etc.
The best way to find out more is to be a guest at a local yacht club and pick their racer's brains on their opinions.
As therevious poster said, check your local PHRF listing for specific boats; i.e. PHRF of the Chesapeake.
More generally; Ballast to displacenent relates more to stiffness vs tenderness --- the higher % is generally better; displacenment to length --- Lower number (lighter) is usually faster; Sail area to displacement --- greater sail area to displacement (higher number) is faster. Now look at a specific model's PHRF because that accounts for many relevant factors including diferences in models such as shoal draft vs deep draft or centerboard vs fixed keel models, etc.
More generally; Ballast to displacenent relates more to stiffness vs tenderness --- the higher % is generally better; displacenment to length --- Lower number (lighter) is usually faster; Sail area to displacement --- greater sail area to displacement (higher number) is faster. Now look at a specific model's PHRF because that accounts for many relevant factors including diferences in models such as shoal draft vs deep draft or centerboard vs fixed keel models, etc.
boat speed
I cant add anything about PHRF the previous writers were right on the mark. I will say if you are contemplating racing in some of the CBYRA races in the area you should also pay attention to the class splits. Class splits are grouped according to handicap ratings, for instance 150 to 200 would be class C. If you buy at the low end of the class you should have one of the faster boats. Theoretically you will be sailing in clear air and will have a better chance of winning. Living in the Deale area you have a great selection of used race boats already equipped with all the go fast mods. Have fun. Ray T
I cant add anything about PHRF the previous writers were right on the mark. I will say if you are contemplating racing in some of the CBYRA races in the area you should also pay attention to the class splits. Class splits are grouped according to handicap ratings, for instance 150 to 200 would be class C. If you buy at the low end of the class you should have one of the faster boats. Theoretically you will be sailing in clear air and will have a better chance of winning. Living in the Deale area you have a great selection of used race boats already equipped with all the go fast mods. Have fun. Ray T
Since you appear to be an "occasional club/PHRF" racer, you should think about all the other criteria that go into boat selection other than speed. Size; cost (to buy and maintain); condition if not new; deck, hull and interior layout; equipment and so forth should be given serious thought. If you have a well maintained and equipped boat, the handicap it receives will balance out speed against other boats. Other than when we are out for our Sunday sail and there is another boat on a parallel course and you can hear winches and molars grinding....
Since you are in Deale, contact the Herrington Harbour Sailing Association (http://www.hhsa.org/) to get an idea from them about who wins their races and why....
Since you are in Deale, contact the Herrington Harbour Sailing Association (http://www.hhsa.org/) to get an idea from them about who wins their races and why....
PHRF
For the most part i race a LOT with a bit of pleasure sailing
The PHRF rules work SO SO depending on the type of course and wind conditions ,one boat i race on is aTartan 372 which gets hammered in short legs (1 to 2 miles ) BUT on a longer race in the 35 mile range out and back it runs wth the best of them
Another big if is useing (time on distance) OR (time on time) to figure the results
So you will find that in the end you need to sail well and some conditions will favor your boat and some will not
The most competive boat i race on is a 1970 C&C 35 (PHRF 117) because the owner is on top of everything it takes to make the boat go in every condition
And go figure this summer My J24 beat a fully carbon fibered Santana 52 buy 8 seconds on a 34 mile race
For the most part i race a LOT with a bit of pleasure sailing
The PHRF rules work SO SO depending on the type of course and wind conditions ,one boat i race on is aTartan 372 which gets hammered in short legs (1 to 2 miles ) BUT on a longer race in the 35 mile range out and back it runs wth the best of them
Another big if is useing (time on distance) OR (time on time) to figure the results
So you will find that in the end you need to sail well and some conditions will favor your boat and some will not
The most competive boat i race on is a 1970 C&C 35 (PHRF 117) because the owner is on top of everything it takes to make the boat go in every condition
And go figure this summer My J24 beat a fully carbon fibered Santana 52 buy 8 seconds on a 34 mile race
Warren Milberg should get 10 points for his answer.Phrf is rather like a golfers handicap,it is used to even out the playing field,but,I feel that as far as good racing is concerned,you need to have at least boats that are similar in performance and at best one design.I would check locally to see if there is a make/model that suits your needs that others also sail.
Just be aware that if the boat is a somewhat new or uncommon one, the PHRF rating can be way off...
I think I understand what you are saying; you want a boat that meets all your primary requirements but that it is also a competitive model in its PHRF rating. All the factors you mention are interdependent and boats as you probably know are full of trade offs. I would forget about the PHRF rating and get the fastest boat I could for my intended primary use. Unfortunately PHRF does not help any when trying to get to that popular anchorage in time to find a spot. A faster boat will also expand your sailing area as defined by your available time. Do your homework and good luck.
- Status