Just heard over the news that a South Carolina young man that took some time away from school to sail his 35 ft around Florida was on his way to Texas to visit his Father and around 11:30 this morning hit was he described as a floating shipping container. The boat started taking on water. A USCG rescue helicopter and was dispatched from Clearwater Station and plucked him out of the water. He was interviewed at the station and was saying that the boat did no go down immediately and as he was being rescued a salvage boat was coming into the area but that he did not think the boat could be salvaged. He was able to take off the GPS chartplotter and a mag light. There was no mention of exact position or how did he call for help. Those traversing the Gulf these days like Nice & Easy, you all be alert.
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Thats kind of rare
Sorry to hear about that. Hate to hear of anyone losing their boat. At least he is OK. Boats can be replaced. Those containers are bad news should you be unfortunate enough to " find " one. They are hard to see, particularly at night, and radar doesn't help much with them. At least they are not a common occurance. Were lots of them reported in Mississippi sound after Katrina, and I still worry about that some. Mostly that I would find one sitting on the bottom. By my very exacting scientific calculations, if your in 12' of water, and an 8 or 9 foot tall container sitting on the bottom, leaves less than the 4'6" needed to float the boat.
Sorry to hear about that. Hate to hear of anyone losing their boat. At least he is OK. Boats can be replaced. Those containers are bad news should you be unfortunate enough to " find " one. They are hard to see, particularly at night, and radar doesn't help much with them. At least they are not a common occurance. Were lots of them reported in Mississippi sound after Katrina, and I still worry about that some. Mostly that I would find one sitting on the bottom. By my very exacting scientific calculations, if your in 12' of water, and an 8 or 9 foot tall container sitting on the bottom, leaves less than the 4'6" needed to float the boat.
Strange how it changes
You never know about these things. On the Cruising board, this was an 18 YO kid who lived in Tampa and was 15 miles offshore of Clearwater. And the boat was a 25 footer. Unless of course there were two boats lost at the same time in the same place. Stranger things have happened.
You never know about these things. On the Cruising board, this was an 18 YO kid who lived in Tampa and was 15 miles offshore of Clearwater. And the boat was a 25 footer. Unless of course there were two boats lost at the same time in the same place. Stranger things have happened.
I believe the kid was 18 yrs old but they showed
a picture of the boat from the rescue helicopter and it did look like a 35' boat. Blue hull on white deck. I would imagine the report that he was 15 miles from shore could be acurate as he must have contacted USCG on VHF but he was definitely from SC and headed for Texas.
a picture of the boat from the rescue helicopter and it did look like a 35' boat. Blue hull on white deck. I would imagine the report that he was 15 miles from shore could be acurate as he must have contacted USCG on VHF but he was definitely from SC and headed for Texas.
I thought they had passed laws...
that shipping containers had vaulves to allow them to sink to prevent these things from happening...so I have been told. abe
that shipping containers had vaulves to allow them to sink to prevent these things from happening...so I have been told. abe
Don't think it matters
Abe, I don't think it matters about having a valve. If you have materials in them that float, the container will float. I kind of doubt that they are totally air tight anyway. But a bunch of foam in there,for example, would definately make them float. Probably lots of cargo that will keep them floating on top, at least for a while. All the ones supposed to be in Mississippi sound, from the Chaquita Banana place I think, were either not there, which I doubt, or were on the bottom.
Abe, I don't think it matters about having a valve. If you have materials in them that float, the container will float. I kind of doubt that they are totally air tight anyway. But a bunch of foam in there,for example, would definately make them float. Probably lots of cargo that will keep them floating on top, at least for a while. All the ones supposed to be in Mississippi sound, from the Chaquita Banana place I think, were either not there, which I doubt, or were on the bottom.
Nice & Easy.....I wanted to start an aguement...
...with you. So just by chance I had a bannana from Chiquita and I put it in water. Guess what? It floats. abe
...with you. So just by chance I had a bannana from Chiquita and I put it in water. Guess what? It floats. abe
ABE
Don't forget, I am the guy once accused on here of being someone who would poke a wasp nest with a stick. And I agreed. LOL
Don't forget, I am the guy once accused on here of being someone who would poke a wasp nest with a stick. And I agreed. LOL
One of the factors that cause me concern is
the absence of information regarding efforts at damage control. Granted, going bump and finding that your boat is taking on water is an "oh my god" situation. But doesn't anyone try to stuff a plug into the hole to slow the flood? Damage control is a first priority on naval ships shouldn't it also be on small boats?
the absence of information regarding efforts at damage control. Granted, going bump and finding that your boat is taking on water is an "oh my god" situation. But doesn't anyone try to stuff a plug into the hole to slow the flood? Damage control is a first priority on naval ships shouldn't it also be on small boats?
There's a simple solution...
...to the tens of thousands of shipping containers that are lost at sea. They float around endlessly until something like this happens. Each container should be fitted with a water soluble air vent. After exposure to sea water for 24 hours the vent could open and allow the container to sink removing any hazard to navigation and in some cases peoples lives. It might even cost a couple of dollars per container to outfit them but think of the alternative, tens of thousands of these hazards floating around all over the world. Ah-ha! ANOTHER invention!!
...to the tens of thousands of shipping containers that are lost at sea. They float around endlessly until something like this happens. Each container should be fitted with a water soluble air vent. After exposure to sea water for 24 hours the vent could open and allow the container to sink removing any hazard to navigation and in some cases peoples lives. It might even cost a couple of dollars per container to outfit them but think of the alternative, tens of thousands of these hazards floating around all over the world. Ah-ha! ANOTHER invention!!
EPIRB
Would it make sense to fit them with EPIRBs so that salvage companies could easily locate them?
Would it make sense to fit them with EPIRBs so that salvage companies could easily locate them?
I agree, Find them
and make the person who owns the container, responsible for all costs, including the cost of the Coast Guard recovery. Find the containers before a boat does, is the best solution for all concerned. Most times, when a container falls overboard, the offending ship doesn't even know it fell off. They still must be found and removed. Most, float just beneath the water. Of course it all depends on whats inside. How to ruin someones day. I like Liam's responce. EPIRB them for recovery. Lets start a movement!! Keep it up, Ctskip
and make the person who owns the container, responsible for all costs, including the cost of the Coast Guard recovery. Find the containers before a boat does, is the best solution for all concerned. Most times, when a container falls overboard, the offending ship doesn't even know it fell off. They still must be found and removed. Most, float just beneath the water. Of course it all depends on whats inside. How to ruin someones day. I like Liam's responce. EPIRB them for recovery. Lets start a movement!! Keep it up, Ctskip
Epirbs on containers are a wonderful way
to spend billions of tax dollars hunting these things. How to differentiate between a boat epirb and a container epirb . I can anticipate the Coast Guard responce now, "We're sorry that you are sinking but all of our assets are deployed searching for shipping containers."
to spend billions of tax dollars hunting these things. How to differentiate between a boat epirb and a container epirb . I can anticipate the Coast Guard responce now, "We're sorry that you are sinking but all of our assets are deployed searching for shipping containers."
Alan, are you trying to start a war?
Your idea is a great one no doubt, but just consider the wheels of progress wrapped up in red tape. You would have the Public Safety people fighting the Environmental people. Maybe the containers them selves should be water soluable. But then the cargo inside? Way too confusing. LOL Tony B
Your idea is a great one no doubt, but just consider the wheels of progress wrapped up in red tape. You would have the Public Safety people fighting the Environmental people. Maybe the containers them selves should be water soluable. But then the cargo inside? Way too confusing. LOL Tony B
Easy Solution
There could easily be a seperate set of locating devices for containers that would differentiate them from actual EPIRBS. This sort of attential to detail is going to be necessary if we actually plan to take care of this planet of ours. In addition to being hazards for sailors there can be lots of bad stuff in those containers that should not be left in our oceans.
There could easily be a seperate set of locating devices for containers that would differentiate them from actual EPIRBS. This sort of attential to detail is going to be necessary if we actually plan to take care of this planet of ours. In addition to being hazards for sailors there can be lots of bad stuff in those containers that should not be left in our oceans.
I did a web search for shipping containers
lost at sea. The details are very hard to establish because the shipping companies are reluctant to talk about it. Estimates range from 2,000 to more than 10,000 containers per year. However that is acknowledged to be less than 1 per cent of the total number of containers being moved annually. I think that the assets needed to be able to cover the globe in an effective manner would exceed the combined navies of the world. Consider the size of the ships that would be required to lift a container from the sea and stow it on deck. What will be the risk to the crews involved in this work? What new international treaties would be needed to allow recovery ships to operate in foreign waters? Would the ships operate in shallow near shore waters as well as in the open sea?
lost at sea. The details are very hard to establish because the shipping companies are reluctant to talk about it. Estimates range from 2,000 to more than 10,000 containers per year. However that is acknowledged to be less than 1 per cent of the total number of containers being moved annually. I think that the assets needed to be able to cover the globe in an effective manner would exceed the combined navies of the world. Consider the size of the ships that would be required to lift a container from the sea and stow it on deck. What will be the risk to the crews involved in this work? What new international treaties would be needed to allow recovery ships to operate in foreign waters? Would the ships operate in shallow near shore waters as well as in the open sea?
How about
we use economics. in addition to whatever hapens privately when they lose a container, tack on government fines for every lost container..maybe vary depending on contents? make them accountable for it. They will fix the problem themselves.
we use economics. in addition to whatever hapens privately when they lose a container, tack on government fines for every lost container..maybe vary depending on contents? make them accountable for it. They will fix the problem themselves.
The USA doesn't have jursidiction in
international waters! A Liberian container ship moving from Singapore to Chile could lose containers in mid ocean The owner of the contents of the container insure the value of the contents. The owners of the container lease the containers to the shippers and the shipping company has custody of the filled container. So you could have computers manufactured in Malaya loaded into a container at the plant transported by truck to the marine terminal, loaded onto the Liberian flagged ship, crewed by Chinese mariners, by dock workers on work visas from the Philippine Islands. The ship could encounter a storm in the southern ocean and lose containers at night. Two days later the ship docks in Santiago, Chile and the loss of the containers is noted. Until the ship is unloaded and the consignee learns that his container didn't arive, no one knows which containers, filled with what were lost.
international waters! A Liberian container ship moving from Singapore to Chile could lose containers in mid ocean The owner of the contents of the container insure the value of the contents. The owners of the container lease the containers to the shippers and the shipping company has custody of the filled container. So you could have computers manufactured in Malaya loaded into a container at the plant transported by truck to the marine terminal, loaded onto the Liberian flagged ship, crewed by Chinese mariners, by dock workers on work visas from the Philippine Islands. The ship could encounter a storm in the southern ocean and lose containers at night. Two days later the ship docks in Santiago, Chile and the loss of the containers is noted. Until the ship is unloaded and the consignee learns that his container didn't arive, no one knows which containers, filled with what were lost.
Tagging shipping containers
I like some of the ideas thrown around here. Attaching some sort of tracking beacon on the container provides several things: - If the container goes over, someone can know now, rather than days or weeks later that it's in the drink and not on the ship - Using economics, if the container is carrying merchandise of value that has the potential to survive immersion, I'm sure you could find salvagers who would be willing to go after it - If the container is carrying a cargo that is could have a significant negative impact to the environment, it could be found/retrieved/neutralized (assuming the shipping company doesn't try to hide the incident) - If the contents aren't worth salvage and isn't anything harmful, perhaps the beacon could provide some sort of short range data (AIS/VHF/other)to boats in the area to assist in avoidance - Worst case, floating containers could provide researchers data on ocean currents Of course, there is the logistical hurdles of - Added cost : who pays for it? Shipper, shipping company, government? It all ends up getting paid for by the consumer in the end. - Administration : who runs/tracks it? Does each company track their own, create tracking companies solely for this purpose? There are already companies that track ships, why not track their cargo? - Technology : satellites, short/long range radio, GPS, AIS, etc. - Corruption/Crime : there may be some containers that don't WANT to be tracked and/or found if lost. Finally, maybe Tony B isn't that far off. Make the containers soluable, that way if they go swimming, they dissolve. If the contents are heavier than water, it goes to the bottom, if it's lighter than water it washes up on the beach, think about those stories of rubber ducks, athletic shoes and bags of Doritos! On the down side, soluable containers may have a tough time holding up on deck with rain and ocean spray. Maybe a pressure sensor that detects when a portion of the container is X feet below the surface, and then the tops/bottoms of the container disconnect, releasing their cargo - either to the public or Davy Jones, depending on density. T J
I like some of the ideas thrown around here. Attaching some sort of tracking beacon on the container provides several things: - If the container goes over, someone can know now, rather than days or weeks later that it's in the drink and not on the ship - Using economics, if the container is carrying merchandise of value that has the potential to survive immersion, I'm sure you could find salvagers who would be willing to go after it - If the container is carrying a cargo that is could have a significant negative impact to the environment, it could be found/retrieved/neutralized (assuming the shipping company doesn't try to hide the incident) - If the contents aren't worth salvage and isn't anything harmful, perhaps the beacon could provide some sort of short range data (AIS/VHF/other)to boats in the area to assist in avoidance - Worst case, floating containers could provide researchers data on ocean currents Of course, there is the logistical hurdles of - Added cost : who pays for it? Shipper, shipping company, government? It all ends up getting paid for by the consumer in the end. - Administration : who runs/tracks it? Does each company track their own, create tracking companies solely for this purpose? There are already companies that track ships, why not track their cargo? - Technology : satellites, short/long range radio, GPS, AIS, etc. - Corruption/Crime : there may be some containers that don't WANT to be tracked and/or found if lost. Finally, maybe Tony B isn't that far off. Make the containers soluable, that way if they go swimming, they dissolve. If the contents are heavier than water, it goes to the bottom, if it's lighter than water it washes up on the beach, think about those stories of rubber ducks, athletic shoes and bags of Doritos! On the down side, soluable containers may have a tough time holding up on deck with rain and ocean spray. Maybe a pressure sensor that detects when a portion of the container is X feet below the surface, and then the tops/bottoms of the container disconnect, releasing their cargo - either to the public or Davy Jones, depending on density. T J
What it
You could use the court system. I have seen lots of these containers and they are all numbered in some way. They have to be able to identify them too. So, lets say you hit a container, lose your boat, drift around the ocean for a day or two. But you did manage to get the number off the container you hit. Can you sue the pants off the offending ship owner, mfg., container owner, etc. Maybe end up owning a shipping line. LOL
You could use the court system. I have seen lots of these containers and they are all numbered in some way. They have to be able to identify them too. So, lets say you hit a container, lose your boat, drift around the ocean for a day or two. But you did manage to get the number off the container you hit. Can you sue the pants off the offending ship owner, mfg., container owner, etc. Maybe end up owning a shipping line. LOL
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