My wife and I have been sailing for 5 years. We have a Hunter 340. We are starting a search for a new boat that we can sail on the Chesapeake and also take down the coast in the winter once we retire. (about 4 years) My wife is really pushing for a catamaran. After all this time she still is not crazy about the heeling motion of the boat. Our 340 is a little tender and I usually reef early to keep things within the 15 degree range but I think she never really relaxes if we are out in over 15 knots of wind even reefed. We have chartered cats a couple of times and had a great time but I think I would miss the monohull movement in the water. My question is what monohulls would you recommend we look at that would be less tender under sail and would be appropriate for our sailing plans. As our retirement won't be for a while we are willing to take our time in making this decision. I'm just looking for some suggestions to begin. Our budget will be about $240,000 preferably less if possible. Thanks for any suggestions you might be able to give.
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catamaran
A catamaran makes sense if you are going to spend time around southern Florida, its pretty shallow I understand.
A catamaran makes sense if you are going to spend time around southern Florida, its pretty shallow I understand.
Ken, We ran a thread here not too
long ago about wind strength and wind speed. The upshot is that if your boat sails well and comfortably with full sails in 8-10 kts. then you are over canvased in 12-14kts. The force of the wind at 12 kts is more than twice the force at 8 kts. So reef early and reef deep and your wife will be much happier. The cats are nice but very wide, won't fit in most slips. They have very shallow draft so you can sail right up to a beach, just drop a kedge off the stern a few hundred feet out and watch the tides.
long ago about wind strength and wind speed. The upshot is that if your boat sails well and comfortably with full sails in 8-10 kts. then you are over canvased in 12-14kts. The force of the wind at 12 kts is more than twice the force at 8 kts. So reef early and reef deep and your wife will be much happier. The cats are nice but very wide, won't fit in most slips. They have very shallow draft so you can sail right up to a beach, just drop a kedge off the stern a few hundred feet out and watch the tides.
Island Packet
What about an Island Packet? They generally take a serious blow to really get them going. On the bay, it would be a little cumbersome... but if you want to stay flat, I'd check one out. Good luck! B
What about an Island Packet? They generally take a serious blow to really get them going. On the bay, it would be a little cumbersome... but if you want to stay flat, I'd check one out. Good luck! B
My 2 cents
You have to think about your sailing plan. Do you plan to go inside or outside. Seem inside if your wife does not like rough rides. Going inside you need to think about mast height and draft. The draft should be around 4' and mast height should be under 60'. There are a lot of boats that fit this requirement. Your Hunter 340 does I think. I like the Catalina 36 but I don't know if this is big enough for your needs. I have been outside of the cape in a very well build boat coming up from FLA in bad weather. The boat could take the condition no problem but I could not.
You have to think about your sailing plan. Do you plan to go inside or outside. Seem inside if your wife does not like rough rides. Going inside you need to think about mast height and draft. The draft should be around 4' and mast height should be under 60'. There are a lot of boats that fit this requirement. Your Hunter 340 does I think. I like the Catalina 36 but I don't know if this is big enough for your needs. I have been outside of the cape in a very well build boat coming up from FLA in bad weather. The boat could take the condition no problem but I could not.
Ken, you have a problem
You cannot get a monohull to NOT heel. ANY monohull. One choice would be to get a blue water boat with a softer and slower heeling motion, that may cure her problem. However you will be sacrificing performance in light air and probably motor a whole lot more than you do now. The other choice is the most obvious,get a Catamaran and keep her happy. In either case , i wouldnt buy anything unless i sailed on them several times. She may end up liking a heavy blue water boat or you may enjoy a catamaran. I would suggest you bum a few rides on both or at least charter them for a week each. Unless of course, money is no object and you can afford to make a major mistake. If you can, then you wont have a problem, buy one of each. Best of luck in any case. At least she enjoys sailing, and thats a GOOD thing
You cannot get a monohull to NOT heel. ANY monohull. One choice would be to get a blue water boat with a softer and slower heeling motion, that may cure her problem. However you will be sacrificing performance in light air and probably motor a whole lot more than you do now. The other choice is the most obvious,get a Catamaran and keep her happy. In either case , i wouldnt buy anything unless i sailed on them several times. She may end up liking a heavy blue water boat or you may enjoy a catamaran. I would suggest you bum a few rides on both or at least charter them for a week each. Unless of course, money is no object and you can afford to make a major mistake. If you can, then you wont have a problem, buy one of each. Best of luck in any case. At least she enjoys sailing, and thats a GOOD thing
Thanks Guys
I appreciate the input. I am thinking that for the trip south we would stay inside until around Beaufort and then go outside but as I said we have time to plan that. I had not thought about the sudden heeling factor. Maybe that is a factor in her discomfort. Any suggestions on boats that would have a more gradual motion? I do reef quite early as this boat is most efficient when kept at or under 15 degrees. I certainly am going to make every effort to sail a variety so that we can avoid a very costly mistake. We have chartered a cat (that's how this whole thing got started) but the lack of slips and the added expense has me luke warm about the idea. If you have any ideas for me to compile my list I would really appreciate it. Other than the heeling issue making her somewhat uncomfortable at times my wife loves the boat and is eager to start our new adventure. I sure want to foster that!
I appreciate the input. I am thinking that for the trip south we would stay inside until around Beaufort and then go outside but as I said we have time to plan that. I had not thought about the sudden heeling factor. Maybe that is a factor in her discomfort. Any suggestions on boats that would have a more gradual motion? I do reef quite early as this boat is most efficient when kept at or under 15 degrees. I certainly am going to make every effort to sail a variety so that we can avoid a very costly mistake. We have chartered a cat (that's how this whole thing got started) but the lack of slips and the added expense has me luke warm about the idea. If you have any ideas for me to compile my list I would really appreciate it. Other than the heeling issue making her somewhat uncomfortable at times my wife loves the boat and is eager to start our new adventure. I sure want to foster that!
Ken, the older full keel boats have
a gentler motion than the fin keel boats of today. Your budget would put a Bristol channel cutter in reach for you. For reading research I recommend "Cruising sailboat kinetics" by Danny Greene and "Seaworthiness- The forgotten factor" by C.A. Marchaj. Remember -- "Gusts don't accumulate"
a gentler motion than the fin keel boats of today. Your budget would put a Bristol channel cutter in reach for you. For reading research I recommend "Cruising sailboat kinetics" by Danny Greene and "Seaworthiness- The forgotten factor" by C.A. Marchaj. Remember -- "Gusts don't accumulate"
Cat vrs mono-hull
Tell her that it takes just as much wind to blow over a cat as it does a mono-hull, but the cat will not come back up. Cat capsize a lot more then mono-hulls because cats, when the go, they go quickly, where as a mono-hull, it's a gradual thing. One tends to reef and reduce sail in a mono-hull before one does in a Cat because the signs are more obvious.
Tell her that it takes just as much wind to blow over a cat as it does a mono-hull, but the cat will not come back up. Cat capsize a lot more then mono-hulls because cats, when the go, they go quickly, where as a mono-hull, it's a gradual thing. One tends to reef and reduce sail in a mono-hull before one does in a Cat because the signs are more obvious.
I'am a old guy who likes a lot of the new answers.
Most of these old blue water cruiser sail on their ears. 15 degrees of heel means its time to start the motor because the wind has died. The shear is so close to the waterline you get wet from spray all the time. They do have a better motion in a sea way. I bought a Hunter because I like what they are doing. The hull form adds to stability these boats are designed to sail with a maximum of 15deg. heel. A sail plan with a 110% fractional rig is very easy to handle. Ease the main and the boat levels up. Add a roller furling main sail and easily reef the main to stay at that 15deg. heel and the boat's moving at hull speed. It has to be really blowing hard before you need to think about furling the jib in a bit. The down side is they are a little slow in less than 10 knots but still faster than those old blue water boats. I know a lot of guys will tell you what they got is better (just like me). You have they time sail all the different style boats and choose.
Most of these old blue water cruiser sail on their ears. 15 degrees of heel means its time to start the motor because the wind has died. The shear is so close to the waterline you get wet from spray all the time. They do have a better motion in a sea way. I bought a Hunter because I like what they are doing. The hull form adds to stability these boats are designed to sail with a maximum of 15deg. heel. A sail plan with a 110% fractional rig is very easy to handle. Ease the main and the boat levels up. Add a roller furling main sail and easily reef the main to stay at that 15deg. heel and the boat's moving at hull speed. It has to be really blowing hard before you need to think about furling the jib in a bit. The down side is they are a little slow in less than 10 knots but still faster than those old blue water boats. I know a lot of guys will tell you what they got is better (just like me). You have they time sail all the different style boats and choose.
Doug H-36 I sail a 1968 Islander
In ten to twelve with the windows open at five to six kts. We don't get wet. I don't know where you got your experience but it is much different then mine. Maybe you need to define OLD for us kids.
In ten to twelve with the windows open at five to six kts. We don't get wet. I don't know where you got your experience but it is much different then mine. Maybe you need to define OLD for us kids.
Ross how wet are you a twenty knots?
Ross I am sure you are I nice old salt. The boat type you are referring to does have the best motion. If I ever have to lay a hull I hope it is in a boat like yours. Full keel boats have lots of ballast. This makes for a hull form that heel's easily then firms up very well. The original question was what kind of boat doesn't heel much, the answer is not a full keel boat. All sail boats are a compromise you pick them to meet your demands. My wife likes to go sailing with me that's great. She will clean the inside and cook everything outside is mine. My task is to keep the boat flat and fast while single handling, a ease job for a fat sixty year old. I had a lot of choices when I bought my Hunter but it does what I want very well. Sailing flat was one of them.
Ross I am sure you are I nice old salt. The boat type you are referring to does have the best motion. If I ever have to lay a hull I hope it is in a boat like yours. Full keel boats have lots of ballast. This makes for a hull form that heel's easily then firms up very well. The original question was what kind of boat doesn't heel much, the answer is not a full keel boat. All sail boats are a compromise you pick them to meet your demands. My wife likes to go sailing with me that's great. She will clean the inside and cook everything outside is mine. My task is to keep the boat flat and fast while single handling, a ease job for a fat sixty year old. I had a lot of choices when I bought my Hunter but it does what I want very well. Sailing flat was one of them.
Doug, at twenty I button up tight!!
I am most fortunate, Nancy is as competant a helmsman as I. We share all duties but I don't ask her to go forward to tend sails or haul anchor. Nancy will take the helm and keep it if she wants. She won't anchor under sail yet----but I am working on that.
I am most fortunate, Nancy is as competant a helmsman as I. We share all duties but I don't ask her to go forward to tend sails or haul anchor. Nancy will take the helm and keep it if she wants. She won't anchor under sail yet----but I am working on that.
Question for you Doug
Doug, I was wondering, on a beam reach, do you find the swept back spreaders hinder you in bringing the boat back on it's feet? We currently have a Hunter 340 and find that at times (usually on a beam reach) working both the traveller and then the main is not always enough. When I say it's not enough we are not even close to being on our ear but we have exceeded that 15 degree efficiency and have moved into the "clenched jaw, I'm OK" look on my wifes face.*pop
Doug, I was wondering, on a beam reach, do you find the swept back spreaders hinder you in bringing the boat back on it's feet? We currently have a Hunter 340 and find that at times (usually on a beam reach) working both the traveller and then the main is not always enough. When I say it's not enough we are not even close to being on our ear but we have exceeded that 15 degree efficiency and have moved into the "clenched jaw, I'm OK" look on my wifes face.*pop
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