Boat registration advice

scotmcpherson · Sep 28, 2015

That's right, you cannot have both a USCG and a state registration. They are mutually exclusive.

In CT it's a little easier, though you remain liable of an issue arrises.

In CT you can fill out an affidavit of ownership explaining how you came to own the boat. You also do not have to be a CT resident to register the boat in CT and you MUST register the boat in CT if the boat will be used in CT waters for I believe 3 month or longer.

Stu Jackson · Sep 28, 2015

scotmcpherson said:
That's right, you cannot have both a USCG and a state registration. They are mutually exclusive.

That's not quite correct. It used to be. Not anymore.

On cruisersforum there is endless discussion about Florida registration for visiting boaters. Essentially, you need a FL registration if you stay more than 90 days, EVEN IF THE VESSEL IS DOCUMENTED. While you don't have to put stickers on the hull, you need to display a tag on one of your ports. "Windows" for some owners.

IIRC, NY and NJ have some screwy rules, too.

BigEasy · Sep 28, 2015

Apparently, many states are now requiring that you register a USCG documented boat if you are going to be in state waters beyond a specified period of time. In LA, the documented boat must be registered by the Department of Wildlife & Fisheries Marine Division. You aren't required to display the registration numbers on the side of the hull; however, you must display the current registration decal. I believe that the requirement to register in state closes the old "loop hole" to avoid paying state sales or use tax just because the boat is USCG documented.
Three years ago, I was in the process of obtaining USCG documentation and also registering the boat in LA simultaneously. I also wanted to obtain a certificate of title in LA. I was told by multiple officials that it was mandatory to register in LA and display the registration decal; however, I could not obtain a LA title if I had the boat USCG documented. Still don't know what that was about. So now I have a USCG document certificate as well as LA registration and registration decal that is displayed on the both sides of the forward topsides.
I was also told by a broker that there was an ongoing effort to check boats that were USCG documented that were in state without a LA registration decal. Those owners were investigated to ensure that they paid the necessary LA sales taxes upon purchase.
I was also told by Florida officials that if you bring a boat into Florida and keep it there for over 90days, 180 days if it is being worked on; that you have to either register the boat in Florida and pay a tax based on the value of the boat OR pay a use tax. Again , this Florida information was obtained about four years ago when I was considering purchasing a boat in Florida. If you don't comply and get caught, the fines/penalties can be severe. Guess that states are trying to get as much revenue as possible.

seadaddler · Sep 29, 2015

Reg

I live in Florida and both Coast Guard documented and Florida registered,
can you contact the former owner to sign off.
Nick

Crazy Dave Condon · Sep 29, 2015

If there is a state title on the boat, why not call that state boat registration, advise what has happened and see if they can give you an address if different from that on the title. Generally the title will have the full name, you might try the official White Pages which might help. You may need to send a registered letter with return receipt and so forth.

Ken Cross · Sep 29, 2015

yes, but it was documented

In our state I couldn't get title until the state got paperwork from USCG. They put a "hold" on the title until this was cleared up. In our case we undocumented through a title company. We purchased our boat in January with cash and are still without a title. First the loan company from the seller didn't fill out the paperwork correctly to satisfy the State. Then we found the hold. We are hoping to see a title in the next few weeks. And for this we paid the marine title company money. I'm told the broker has no responsibility here.

Depending on the value of the boat it may be cheaper to hire an attorney.
Ken

BigEasy · Sep 29, 2015

I am questioning why owner "A" would want to get involved in this dilemma.
He no longer owns the boat. By obtaining another title from his state and then signing it over to owner "C", he (owner "A") would be engaged in a fraudulent transaction. Still maintain that owner "C" needs to shake up owner "B" and broker involved in transaction.

williamtl · Sep 29, 2015

Ok, I actually am a lawyer although Florida is not one of the states in which I am licensed to practice. I wouldn't even pretend to give legal advice outside of those states because there is so much difference in the laws (and in an ironic twist, the state bar attorney ethics rules almost always make this an ethics violation). Adding in the rich history of maritime law on top of state law makes advising in this situation even more complex.

The advice I will give is to check out the lawyer you have been referred to with the state bar association (looking for any complaints against them through the bar association), google them, check the myriad lawyer referral sites, to see what there reputation is. If all this checks out give them a call.

Ask how they will charge. Many lawyers are moving away from the billable hour, some aren't. Depending on who they think can resolve this, they may be willing to send a registered letter on their letterhead requesting the other side to rectify the situation. This often does the trick. Beware however the attorney that wants to send a blustery, threatening, "govern yourself accordingly" type of letter. These often trigger the Streisand effect and totally backfire.

When you do engage a lawyer, and they have accepted you as a client, don't leave out any detail or fact no matter how small or irrelevant.

The posters who have said "they had exactly the same problem" are more dangerous than the others who have inadvertently practiced law by giving legal advice. No two situations are identical. If a post just recounted your personal sail of horror (pun intended) that's ok and probably helpful.

Some of the posters have tried to be helpful and give advice: it's the broker, it's contract, it's negligence, the dmv is the place to go, the coasties should fix it. Well, the situation probably involves the intersection of laws from all of these areas. Now that I think of it, this would be a great law school exam question. Here are the facts, discuss!

Legal disclaimers go here. No client attorney relationship was created by this post, no legal advice was intended or provided, smaller and smaller type needed for the remainder of the disclaimer, Yada, Yada, Yada, ...

Crazy Dave Condon · Sep 30, 2015

Williamtl;

You are correct that laws regarding boats are different from state to state as I use to deal with many as a sailboat dealer. Some folks think all they have to do is buy the boat and go sailing without doing anything. I use to volunteer for Boy Scouts working with various councils and Sea Scouts to straighten titling out not to mention others who sought my help.

To answer the question about owner a since his name appeared on the title and legally the boat is still registered and titled in his name, I would tend to think I am correct, he would also be named in a lawsuit should there be one filed until he produces documentation that he sold the boat. I have seen this happen which owner a incurred legal costs to get out of that but I have also seen something fishy with an owner a situations in the past as well.

The easiest and fastest way to resolve this thread if the original poster could find and go to owner a direct letting him know what owner b did and would he help to erase this delimma by getting a new title and then assign it over to the new owner bypassaing owner b. Saves a lot of time and headaches and folks it worked every time.

In the event owner a is deceased, you will need a death certificate along with a copy of the documentation as to the executorship to resolve that. Been there and done that in a couple of cases. L

Usually most folks were willing to help to get this squared away as they did not want to deal with owner b as well. Saved time and legal expenses

agprice22 · Sep 30, 2015

frankiedogs said:
All valid points everyone. I found the last titled owner, now to just contact him and see if he will help out.

You may want to make it worth his while!

a couple bucks for his time? A little grease to ease the way? A little jingle for his pockets?

Anyone else? Any other euphemistic phrases?

By the way, I once found the owner of a trailer who failed to register it 2 owners prior to myself. I tried to lean on him a little, saying he was preventing me from legally owning it, and he should pay his taxes on it, so I could title it. He basically said, "too bad. I am not doing anything to help you." Oh well. I worked around it! It is titled now and properly sold to another owner who has proper title to it.

Thanks,

Andrew

BigEasy · Sep 30, 2015

Wondering if you really need to consult a maritime lawyer. I thought they usually handle salvages, maritime accidents, maritime injury, & similar. Your situation appears to be a business contract problem that most attorneys could adequately handle at a lesser cost than a maritime attorney. Might consider that avenue as I am sure that you don't want to spend a lot on legal fees. If you have to go the legal route, you might want to talk to 2 or 3 to get an idea of the proceedings & costs involved at each step.