Hello there, Several weeks ago I started a thread at Beneteau owners community about prices for new Beneteau 323. Since then, I’ve got some information and collected opinions of several owners/buyers of a new boats. It grew up to little bit more than discussion of pricing policy of Beneteau, so I decided to expend it to see what boat owners think about it. And may be you will help me to buy a new boat as well. I plan to get a new boat by the end of this year. This is a summary so far. Details you can see by searching for Beneteau 323 pricing. This is a summary of what was going on: It is very difficult to get a quote for a new boat from some dealer. I am trying to get a quote for 3 weeks for Beneteau 323 and I still do not have it. There is a claim thrown out (my guess is by dealers) that there is no way, but to buy a new boat from a local dealer. Main reason is that boat needs a lot of very expensive repairs over the first year of ownership. I think that this can be interpreted in two ways. First, if this is the case, it tells me that quality of a boat is very poor. Second – ANY qualified marina can do those repair and many boat manufacturers will reimburse you for those expenses. Another reason is that boat manufacturers would not allow dealers to sell new boat to me, unless I live in their area. This is not true. Some companies like Beneteau do enforce their dealers to ship boat only within their region. So if you can accept delivery somewhere else, you can buy it there. Not all dealers are the same. This is what I found out while trying to get a quote for a new boats. First Beneteau, but after I’ve got sick of asking for a quote and getting only a lot of questions back, from other manufacturers. Looks like that it is much easier to deal with dealers who sell high end European made boats. Hallberg-Rassy, Hanse, Dufour are several great examples. They much more customer oriented and very straight forward with their pricing policy vs Beneteau. After a first request I’ve got a pricing quotes, payment terms and delivery options right away. So looks like that if you do not want to spend months trying to find a right price talking to Beneteau dealers, it is easier to buy boat from them. Otherwise from what I see, I will pay the same amount of money for Beneteau 323 as for 37 feet Hanse! So this is a summary of shopping for a boat with a budget between 80 and 140K Beneteau 323 Price quote – no. Boat in stock for Sea trial – no. Very difficult to deal with. Loosk like that there is only one way to get a fair price. It is on a boat show. Hunter Price quote – yes. Negotiate on a price – yes. Catalina Price quote – yes. Willing to negotiate on a price- yes. Etap Price quote – yes. Boats in stock for sea trial – no, but they are willing to arrange it in other areas. Willing to negotiate on a price- yes Dufour Price quote – yes. Boat in stock for sea trial – no, but can arrange in other area. Willing to negotiate on a price- yes. Hanse Price quote – yes. Boat in stock for sea trial – no, but can arrange in other area. Willing to negotiate on a price- yes. Halberg-Rassy Price quote – yes. Boat in stock for sea trial – no, but can arrange in other area. Willing to negotiate on a price- yes. So far i can get: Below 80K 31 feet Hanse Below 100K - 34 feet Hanse, 31 feet Dufour Below 120K - 37 feet Hanse, Beneteau 323 Below 150K 31 feet Hallberg-Russy
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This isn't quite right
Everything you're discussing here is about the dealer. I don't think the builder plays much of a role in it.
Everything you're discussing here is about the dealer. I don't think the builder plays much of a role in it.
Translate to English Please
Can you please translate this post to readable english? I reads like nonsense to me.
Can you please translate this post to readable english? I reads like nonsense to me.
I don't quite understand what you want, but
if you can buy a new 31' Hallberg-Rassy for less than $150,000 get one for me too.
if you can buy a new 31' Hallberg-Rassy for less than $150,000 get one for me too.
Hello there, Thank you for your replies. This is what I really want to get from this discussion: 1. Point your attention at the fact that we as buyers are getting screwed by unfair business practices of many boat dealers. 2. Come up with a strategy to buy a new boat for a reasonable price. 3. Come up with pricing guidelines for myself and for new boat buyers in a price range up to 150K. 4. At the end I want to buy 30-37 feet new boat for a reasonable price. Ted, if you are serious about it, we need to talk. I think that I might negotiate a better price for 2 boats than for one. Tim, thank you. Many people probably just left this thread without writing any comments. I’ll try to translate it. I am going to rewrite this text and publish it again. I am just practicing with my English. Phil, Thank you for your reply as well. I think that what is going on is builder’s initiative. Builders are the ones who execute their marketing strategies. Beneteau is the company who decided that having only one dealership in the area is good for them. And it is good for them. But it is bad for us as buyers, because in local markets we have no competition between dealerships. So my goal is to come up with a strategy, when they will compete against each other. They are going to make less money on each sale. We are going to pay less money for a new boats. Dealers who will provide good services are going to make more money because they are going to have more sales. Builders who make good boats are going to sell more boats because more people would be able to afford those boats. Thank you, Victor
I'm with Tim
I fail to see your problem. Beneteau makes a good boat but they dont make the best boat, they dont make the least expensive boat and they certainly are not the only boat manufacturer. Buy a different boat. You are just rambling on about a theorized marketing strategy that you perceive to be so. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BUY ANOTHER BOAT, that is what m,ost rational people will do. If you want to make a statement....buy another boat. The drop in sales will give them the hint. Tim was being facicious in his comment. It had nothing to do with sentence structure or grammer, it had all to do with your rambling on. When most people dont like a manufacturer for whatever reason, they dont buy that product. Look up this word in the dictionary...BOYCOTT. Then read about the strategy of boycotting. It works, and do you know why it works? Because its simple.
I fail to see your problem. Beneteau makes a good boat but they dont make the best boat, they dont make the least expensive boat and they certainly are not the only boat manufacturer. Buy a different boat. You are just rambling on about a theorized marketing strategy that you perceive to be so. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT BUY ANOTHER BOAT, that is what m,ost rational people will do. If you want to make a statement....buy another boat. The drop in sales will give them the hint. Tim was being facicious in his comment. It had nothing to do with sentence structure or grammer, it had all to do with your rambling on. When most people dont like a manufacturer for whatever reason, they dont buy that product. Look up this word in the dictionary...BOYCOTT. Then read about the strategy of boycotting. It works, and do you know why it works? Because its simple.
I had a Catalina 30..Great Boat
I would take a Catalina over a Bena-toy anyday. As far as production boats are concerned, I feel catalina is the best. They also have the highest rate of customer satisfaction and the highest rate of customer loyalty in that most Catalina owners upgrade to another Catalina. I went from a 25 Catalina to a 30 Catalina. I recently left the nest by purchasing an Allied and that is only because catalina did not make a ketch. If they did, I would own another catalina.
I would take a Catalina over a Bena-toy anyday. As far as production boats are concerned, I feel catalina is the best. They also have the highest rate of customer satisfaction and the highest rate of customer loyalty in that most Catalina owners upgrade to another Catalina. I went from a 25 Catalina to a 30 Catalina. I recently left the nest by purchasing an Allied and that is only because catalina did not make a ketch. If they did, I would own another catalina.
I would love to buy a new boat...
I would take out a second on my house. I would dig into all my savings and 401k to own a really nice new boat. But it is not about the price or the dealer. It is about location. Where, with the lack of slip space, would I put it? My driveway on a trailer? Interesting discussion.
I would take out a second on my house. I would dig into all my savings and 401k to own a really nice new boat. But it is not about the price or the dealer. It is about location. Where, with the lack of slip space, would I put it? My driveway on a trailer? Interesting discussion.
pricing
Your statement that there are a lot of expensive repairs in the first year is never something you said on the other thread. If someone said there MAY be expensive repairs, that certainly makes sense for any boat. I have been involved in antitrust law for many years and it is widely recognized that a manufacturer may have a reasonable basis for deciding to assign exclusive territories to dealers that is not anticompetitive. This is expecially true where the retailers have a great deal of responsibility and their execution of that responsibility will reflect on the manufacturer. In any new boat the quality of the commissioning is goign to be a very important item. Yes, there are plenty of dealers. I never had any trouble finding out the price for my new 323 from 2 different dealers and having the one further from me willing to sell me the boat. He said he would be willing to travel for warrnaty repair, but I was reluctant to rely on this and assume that he would travel 200 miles for every little thing. It sounds like you finally got a quote and just don't want to pay that much. OK, buy a different boat.
Your statement that there are a lot of expensive repairs in the first year is never something you said on the other thread. If someone said there MAY be expensive repairs, that certainly makes sense for any boat. I have been involved in antitrust law for many years and it is widely recognized that a manufacturer may have a reasonable basis for deciding to assign exclusive territories to dealers that is not anticompetitive. This is expecially true where the retailers have a great deal of responsibility and their execution of that responsibility will reflect on the manufacturer. In any new boat the quality of the commissioning is goign to be a very important item. Yes, there are plenty of dealers. I never had any trouble finding out the price for my new 323 from 2 different dealers and having the one further from me willing to sell me the boat. He said he would be willing to travel for warrnaty repair, but I was reluctant to rely on this and assume that he would travel 200 miles for every little thing. It sounds like you finally got a quote and just don't want to pay that much. OK, buy a different boat.
Boat buying
If a dealer would not quote me a price for a new boat, I would probably not buy one from him. How could I? I can understand that he may not want to work up a firm price if he doesn't think you are serious about buying. If you get a price and think it's too high, then offer less. If he really wants to sell the boat, he might take your offer. If he has other customers lined up, he may not be inclined to deal. It's called bargaining. You do not need other people in order to do this. You are really in control because you make the final decision. But you will not get a boat at a price where the dealer doesn't make money. But you don't have to accept an overly inflated price. Find another deal. It took me over three weeks of holding firm until the dealer agreed to my offer. Part of it was that it was during a boat show, and he was waiting to see if he could get someone else to meet his inflated price. He didn't sell it, so he had to come down to my offering.
If a dealer would not quote me a price for a new boat, I would probably not buy one from him. How could I? I can understand that he may not want to work up a firm price if he doesn't think you are serious about buying. If you get a price and think it's too high, then offer less. If he really wants to sell the boat, he might take your offer. If he has other customers lined up, he may not be inclined to deal. It's called bargaining. You do not need other people in order to do this. You are really in control because you make the final decision. But you will not get a boat at a price where the dealer doesn't make money. But you don't have to accept an overly inflated price. Find another deal. It took me over three weeks of holding firm until the dealer agreed to my offer. Part of it was that it was during a boat show, and he was waiting to see if he could get someone else to meet his inflated price. He didn't sell it, so he had to come down to my offering.
I did buy a boat from an out of town dealer
I wouldn't do it again. Boats are not cars. Dealers aren't interchangeable. Many dealers will not sell to customers out of their trade area because they are _unable_ to provide warranty coverage. I may be wrong, but I have never heard of a boat dealer handling warranty stuff if they didn't sell you the boat. That's probably because the dealer also carries part of liability for the warranty.
I wouldn't do it again. Boats are not cars. Dealers aren't interchangeable. Many dealers will not sell to customers out of their trade area because they are _unable_ to provide warranty coverage. I may be wrong, but I have never heard of a boat dealer handling warranty stuff if they didn't sell you the boat. That's probably because the dealer also carries part of liability for the warranty.
Tire Kicker
Before the end of the year is a long time away Victor. When you are realy ready to step up to the plate I am sure they will be more helpfull. But waisting the time of several diferrent boat dealers and manifactures you wont buy from only caused them to treat you like a tire kicker (keel kicker in this case) and ignor you. It could also be true that they do not want your bussines after talking to you. You could also take advantage of our capitolistic economy and start a non profit yacht brokerage were you could work for free spending all day talking to everybody that walks on the docks not ready to buy a boat
Before the end of the year is a long time away Victor. When you are realy ready to step up to the plate I am sure they will be more helpfull. But waisting the time of several diferrent boat dealers and manifactures you wont buy from only caused them to treat you like a tire kicker (keel kicker in this case) and ignor you. It could also be true that they do not want your bussines after talking to you. You could also take advantage of our capitolistic economy and start a non profit yacht brokerage were you could work for free spending all day talking to everybody that walks on the docks not ready to buy a boat
Well Ahansom, you are wrong. This is why: 1. I would fire my salesman if he won’t spend time to talk to a customer who can bring me 20+K in profits over next 6 months. If you work in sales, you should think about it. 2. Suggestion that seller won’t do business with a buyer who is trying to negotiate is another myth. Buyer is always in a better position. I have 100K and I do not have to buy a boat. A can go and buy Porsche 911 turbo. Seller needs to sell a boat to survive. I think that your idea about non profit organization is great. But I also think that there is a good potential for a services similar to buyer’s agent in real estate.
Just Say No
I agree with Jon W.'s comment. I was at the Fall boat show and worked up the best price for a new Beneteau. I eventually decided to wait a year and said no. Over the course of the Winter the salesman called and made the deal better. I finally agreed in February and I am now saling my wonderful new sailboat. If you don't want what is being offered, then just say no. The deal might get better, or not. Make an offer and see what they say. They seem to be most flexible with options. But stop complaining that a new sailboat costs too much. We already know that. By the way, the folks at Annapolis Yacht Sales are terrific in every step of the sale, commissioning and follow-up. Don't discount the value of having your dealer close by for minor repairs. This was my first new boat, and I still can't believe the level of service I get: they have someone at my boat in a couple of days to look at anything I think is wrong with the boat. What's that worth to you?
I agree with Jon W.'s comment. I was at the Fall boat show and worked up the best price for a new Beneteau. I eventually decided to wait a year and said no. Over the course of the Winter the salesman called and made the deal better. I finally agreed in February and I am now saling my wonderful new sailboat. If you don't want what is being offered, then just say no. The deal might get better, or not. Make an offer and see what they say. They seem to be most flexible with options. But stop complaining that a new sailboat costs too much. We already know that. By the way, the folks at Annapolis Yacht Sales are terrific in every step of the sale, commissioning and follow-up. Don't discount the value of having your dealer close by for minor repairs. This was my first new boat, and I still can't believe the level of service I get: they have someone at my boat in a couple of days to look at anything I think is wrong with the boat. What's that worth to you?
Looks like that this topic got a lot of attention. Good! This is what I was looking for! Thank you very much for your contribution. I am going to follow up on this for as long as I can. I might start a web site dedicated to this discussion. But for now – a few good things. I was talking only about bad things before. 1.I am very much impressed with presales work that Hanse dealer does. I’ve never expected him to give me not just MSRP, but factory invoice and delivery prices along with it. And those prices are VERY attractive. 2.Etap dealer. Just great experience! Prices are available from Etap web site. Dealer is willing to talk, willing to answer questions. Going to go and see his boat in a week or two. Good boats, good people. 3.Hallberg-Rassy. I am very much impressed. I thought that this is way above my price range. I was wrong. Very straight forward pricing policy. Very helpful. So my suggestion – before you start negotiating for your Beneteau, at least look at those three. You would be impressed with what you see. And you are going to have real alternatives. And price lists right away!
My Dealer Quoted me Quickly...
And took my 2001 Mainship Pilot Express in on a trade! I bought a Catalina from a dealer 130 miles away and had no problems. Catalina has dealt with any (very few) issues in a timely maner and I speak with Frank Butler the "owner" of Catalina directly to deal with these issues. I can almost guarantee you'll never speak to the "owner" of Beneteau because it's a huge corporation headed up by the figure head grandaughter of the founder. She does not talk to customers unless it The Moorings et. al.. They build a decent boat but the hardware is sub par. Aluminum cleats vs. 316 stainless iron keel vs. lead etc. etc.. I had the same issues with Beneteau when I was buying a new boat and fortunately decided to go with a Catalina! I'd stay away form the new comers to the US market. Always, always, always keep re-sale in mind when buying. You will sell and you'll need a boat people feel comfortable & familiar with like a Bene or a Catalina not an eTap or a Hanse....
And took my 2001 Mainship Pilot Express in on a trade! I bought a Catalina from a dealer 130 miles away and had no problems. Catalina has dealt with any (very few) issues in a timely maner and I speak with Frank Butler the "owner" of Catalina directly to deal with these issues. I can almost guarantee you'll never speak to the "owner" of Beneteau because it's a huge corporation headed up by the figure head grandaughter of the founder. She does not talk to customers unless it The Moorings et. al.. They build a decent boat but the hardware is sub par. Aluminum cleats vs. 316 stainless iron keel vs. lead etc. etc.. I had the same issues with Beneteau when I was buying a new boat and fortunately decided to go with a Catalina! I'd stay away form the new comers to the US market. Always, always, always keep re-sale in mind when buying. You will sell and you'll need a boat people feel comfortable & familiar with like a Bene or a Catalina not an eTap or a Hanse....
Buying new Catalina or Hunter
Catalina and Hunter owners, please give your input here. There were more than 600 clicks on this topic. So many people read it. I am not looking at Catalinas or Hunters because of reasons not related to this discussion. But if you were treated well, please let other people know. Dealers who really take care of their customers should be rewarded. If you were not treated well, please say it here. I think that over next several years most new boat buyers are going to check this web site and do a search in archives before they buy a new boat. So your word can be ultimate reward of punishment.
Catalina and Hunter owners, please give your input here. There were more than 600 clicks on this topic. So many people read it. I am not looking at Catalinas or Hunters because of reasons not related to this discussion. But if you were treated well, please let other people know. Dealers who really take care of their customers should be rewarded. If you were not treated well, please say it here. I think that over next several years most new boat buyers are going to check this web site and do a search in archives before they buy a new boat. So your word can be ultimate reward of punishment.
Catalina
Catalina is one of the largest boat manufacturers in the US. It has the highest rate of customer loyalty. The factory will even help answer questions on older models, like at least 25 years old from my experience. The Catalina owners website is very popular and extremely helpful. And the list goes on.
Catalina is one of the largest boat manufacturers in the US. It has the highest rate of customer loyalty. The factory will even help answer questions on older models, like at least 25 years old from my experience. The Catalina owners website is very popular and extremely helpful. And the list goes on.
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