Boat overturned, 6 missing
- Thread starter sailortonyb Allied Mis
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Probably know more by tomorow
The news media is kinda like the military in the sense that the first reports are rarely accurate. I hate to hear stuff like that. One of the golden rules is to NOT leave the vessel unless you really have to. If they stayed with the boat, albeit upside down, they might have been OK. Its hard to judge because it can happen so quickly. There is a good chance that the 2 on duty were thrown from the cockpit and couldnt get back to the boat and the other 4 may still be inside. Also a better chance that they may be alive and drifted to Matagorda and may be found by morning. Tony B
The news media is kinda like the military in the sense that the first reports are rarely accurate. I hate to hear stuff like that. One of the golden rules is to NOT leave the vessel unless you really have to. If they stayed with the boat, albeit upside down, they might have been OK. Its hard to judge because it can happen so quickly. There is a good chance that the 2 on duty were thrown from the cockpit and couldnt get back to the boat and the other 4 may still be inside. Also a better chance that they may be alive and drifted to Matagorda and may be found by morning. Tony B
Let's wait for updated information before starting
to fuel speculation. The USCG does not seem to have issued an official communation as they are probably very much involved in a search and rescue operation. I'm sure there is a lesson to be learned for most of us so that a similar ocurrence can be avoided in the future. Would hate to be in the position of these men as well as close relatives and friends. Let's hope for the best.
to fuel speculation. The USCG does not seem to have issued an official communation as they are probably very much involved in a search and rescue operation. I'm sure there is a lesson to be learned for most of us so that a similar ocurrence can be avoided in the future. Would hate to be in the position of these men as well as close relatives and friends. Let's hope for the best.
I'd be willing to bet
they hit a submerged container, that fell off a container ship. Ever see one of those ships close up? Scary, is all I can say. Those ships lose containers overboard everyday, and don't even realize it. Once they fall overboard, the containers sink to about a foot below the water line. Some sink to the bottom, but most float, just below the water, waiting. Keep it up, Ctskip
they hit a submerged container, that fell off a container ship. Ever see one of those ships close up? Scary, is all I can say. Those ships lose containers overboard everyday, and don't even realize it. Once they fall overboard, the containers sink to about a foot below the water line. Some sink to the bottom, but most float, just below the water, waiting. Keep it up, Ctskip
That sinking feeling
I lost one myself, 948 nm from Newport CA.We caught a low, the wind was gusting to fifty knots, a sea built - very hard to judge wind/waves inthose conditions, but the upshot was this hunter 'passage' had been in charter service and been grounded a few times. Next morning when waves began to subside I was looking for our leak with a headlamp under the bilge sole, and saw the water coming in at the keel-bolts as the keel-stubby worked. OUr bucket brigade could keep up, but how long? Plus the fact that keels have been know to drop like a hat, so I clicked on the EPIRB. USCG sent a rescue plane out from Oahu, they dropped us a radio, water, food in a five-gallon container. A cruise ship was diverted from its great circle to Honolulu and picked us up gight hours later. The 40 hunter 'passage' went down half way from California to the Sandwich Isles.
I lost one myself, 948 nm from Newport CA.We caught a low, the wind was gusting to fifty knots, a sea built - very hard to judge wind/waves inthose conditions, but the upshot was this hunter 'passage' had been in charter service and been grounded a few times. Next morning when waves began to subside I was looking for our leak with a headlamp under the bilge sole, and saw the water coming in at the keel-bolts as the keel-stubby worked. OUr bucket brigade could keep up, but how long? Plus the fact that keels have been know to drop like a hat, so I clicked on the EPIRB. USCG sent a rescue plane out from Oahu, they dropped us a radio, water, food in a five-gallon container. A cruise ship was diverted from its great circle to Honolulu and picked us up gight hours later. The 40 hunter 'passage' went down half way from California to the Sandwich Isles.
I can't but wonder how often modern boats have
problems with the keel or rudder that are a threat to the safety of the boat and crew. Loosing my keel would be imposible without ripping the bottom out of the boat. It is moulded in as part of the boat and the ballast is placed inside in blocks of lead. The rudder is supported at the top on a 1 1/4 inch bronze rudder stock that runs through to the heel and is in a heavy bearing attached to the keel. I have seen so many boats with the rudder supported only at the hull and at some point inside the boat. And I have seen keels that were 3 or 4 inches wide and about four feet deep and about three feet long that appear to have been installed after the hull was complete. I presume that they are supported by some internal bracing but they seem very vulnerable.
problems with the keel or rudder that are a threat to the safety of the boat and crew. Loosing my keel would be imposible without ripping the bottom out of the boat. It is moulded in as part of the boat and the ballast is placed inside in blocks of lead. The rudder is supported at the top on a 1 1/4 inch bronze rudder stock that runs through to the heel and is in a heavy bearing attached to the keel. I have seen so many boats with the rudder supported only at the hull and at some point inside the boat. And I have seen keels that were 3 or 4 inches wide and about four feet deep and about three feet long that appear to have been installed after the hull was complete. I presume that they are supported by some internal bracing but they seem very vulnerable.
He died a hero.
See attached link. I have read several articles and I am not sure 'WHY' he died. Hopefully, we will all learn something from his misfortune. Tony B
See attached link. I have read several articles and I am not sure 'WHY' he died. Hopefully, we will all learn something from his misfortune. Tony B
Self inflating PFDs below deck???
This unfortunate accident demonstrates why one should perhaps not wear a self inflating PFD when below deck. One of the survivors said that the boat sank so fast that if he had been wearing his self inflating PFD, he would have not been able to swim "down" to get thru the companionway. He raises a good point, though the probability of freak sudden "turtling" and sinking is so slim. Your thoughts? Steph
This unfortunate accident demonstrates why one should perhaps not wear a self inflating PFD when below deck. One of the survivors said that the boat sank so fast that if he had been wearing his self inflating PFD, he would have not been able to swim "down" to get thru the companionway. He raises a good point, though the probability of freak sudden "turtling" and sinking is so slim. Your thoughts? Steph
So sad
After hearing he was missing, I suspected he didn't make it out. My friend was in a sailboat that went over. He was underwater and literally had the forethought to watch the direction his air bubbles went to find the surface of the water. I'd still wear my inflatable no matter what. That was a truly freak occurance, but getting washed overboard in bad weather happens much greater frequency. bob
After hearing he was missing, I suspected he didn't make it out. My friend was in a sailboat that went over. He was underwater and literally had the forethought to watch the direction his air bubbles went to find the surface of the water. I'd still wear my inflatable no matter what. That was a truly freak occurance, but getting washed overboard in bad weather happens much greater frequency. bob
Been doing some web searching and it seems
that this is not an uncommon event. Most of the time there are not deaths but the loss of the keel seems to be frequent enough that it is recommended that the boat be hauled and the keel be inspected prior to off shore passages. It seems with modern boats intended for racing, weight has become so much of a concern that some designers, builders and buyers are willing to make some compromises that have an adverse effect on the strength of the hull and the safety of the crews. There was a lament on one forum that there does not exist a single agency to garner these events into an annual report. If there is a structrual fault in the method of attaching keels to boats it needs to be made public knowledge.
that this is not an uncommon event. Most of the time there are not deaths but the loss of the keel seems to be frequent enough that it is recommended that the boat be hauled and the keel be inspected prior to off shore passages. It seems with modern boats intended for racing, weight has become so much of a concern that some designers, builders and buyers are willing to make some compromises that have an adverse effect on the strength of the hull and the safety of the crews. There was a lament on one forum that there does not exist a single agency to garner these events into an annual report. If there is a structrual fault in the method of attaching keels to boats it needs to be made public knowledge.
It was a Cape Fear 38
Also in the interview on TV directly from one of the crew, they said they did not hit anything. They were just cruising along on a close haul in 15 kts of wind. They have very little time, less than 60 seconds from the time they knew water was coming into the boat to when the boat went down/turtled (I am assuming that is the moment the keel seperated from the boat). Roger Stone did a very heroic thing. He went down below and got the other two people up and pushing them ahead of himself & out of the boat. Roger ended up getting trapped. One survivor said he barely made it out & is only here because of what Roger Stone did Here is the interview with some of the survivors http://www.khou.com/video/news-index.html?nvid=252841 I think its safe to say that losing ones keel without hitting something is a very rare thing. This is one area where I think Coastal cruising boats like ours are made with quite a bit of safety margin designed in, although at a cost to performance. Its usually the racing type boats that are built a bit more on the edge when it comes to safety factors in the scantlings in the quest for lighter and speedier boats. This happened before (losing a keel and causing the loss of someone overboard) to a Bavaria Match 42 in the quest for performance. It appears that the Cape Fear 38 is designed more of a racing boat. Here is some more with a blog on people that knew him http://www.iboattrack.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1236&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45 My deepest thoughts and prayers go out to Roger Stone and his family and friends. He sounds like one heck of a sailor and great guy. One I would have been proud to have sailed with. Fair Winds and following seas good sailor.
Also in the interview on TV directly from one of the crew, they said they did not hit anything. They were just cruising along on a close haul in 15 kts of wind. They have very little time, less than 60 seconds from the time they knew water was coming into the boat to when the boat went down/turtled (I am assuming that is the moment the keel seperated from the boat). Roger Stone did a very heroic thing. He went down below and got the other two people up and pushing them ahead of himself & out of the boat. Roger ended up getting trapped. One survivor said he barely made it out & is only here because of what Roger Stone did Here is the interview with some of the survivors http://www.khou.com/video/news-index.html?nvid=252841 I think its safe to say that losing ones keel without hitting something is a very rare thing. This is one area where I think Coastal cruising boats like ours are made with quite a bit of safety margin designed in, although at a cost to performance. Its usually the racing type boats that are built a bit more on the edge when it comes to safety factors in the scantlings in the quest for lighter and speedier boats. This happened before (losing a keel and causing the loss of someone overboard) to a Bavaria Match 42 in the quest for performance. It appears that the Cape Fear 38 is designed more of a racing boat. Here is some more with a blog on people that knew him http://www.iboattrack.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1236&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45 My deepest thoughts and prayers go out to Roger Stone and his family and friends. He sounds like one heck of a sailor and great guy. One I would have been proud to have sailed with. Fair Winds and following seas good sailor.
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