Boat Manufactures Should Consider....

[Allan12498]

I have a 1997 Hunter 430, and the foward waste holding tank began leaking. I contacted Hunter about a replacement, and was directed to Ezell Industries in Perry, Florida. After confirming the design of the tank they quickly manufactured a new tank and sent it to me. The waste tank is located below the forward berth along with a freshwater tank, but seperated by a fiberglass stringer. It is obvious that the tanks were installed and the cabin built around them.

To make a long story short, I basically had to disassemble the forward cabin and cut the berth platform above the stringer just to remove and replace the tank. I even had to take the door and frame assembly off to get them through.

Why don't boat manufactures take such issues into consideration upon design?

 

[Tim R.]

Marketing overpowered engineering. People like oodles of tankage. Engineering probably could have redesigned to accommodate more, smaller tanks but that would have gone over budget.

My $.02

 

[Steve_Catalina]

Feel your pain (just a little)

kfish,

I feel some of your pain. I have assisted other folks with boats with the same manufacturer. To make matter worse they were both aluminum waste tanks.
Within 10 years they will always leak, urine is real corrosive.

Fortunately for me, my two water tanks, fuel and plastic waste tank can all be removed if need without any modifications to the vessel.


Steve

 

[Stu Jackson]

It is very unfortunate

how some builders just don't get it, but Steve and I are both "blessed" with boats that were actually well thought out for maintenance and replacement. Just one of the many reasons we love our C34s. We're ready to celebrate our 11th year in July. Whoopee!

 

[Gary_H]

I know exactly what you mean, My boat has a bladder tank that I can't stand. I want to replace it but don't want to have to cut up the V-berth to get a new solid one in.

 

[NJArnfield]

Bladder vs. solid tanks

Interesting. We were just thinking about doing the reverse. What is your biggest complaint about the bladder tank?

 

[sailingdog]

Some manufacturers will assemble the interior after the deck and hull have been joined to ensure that all the bits they're assembling will fit through the companionway... others will not.

 

[C'est La Vie]

Special Place In Hell

Some manufacturers will assemble the interior after the deck and hull have been joined to ensure that all the bits they're assembling will fit through the companionway... others will not.

Every boat designer and builder should be required to have to make repairs on the boats they design-guarantee that designs would change. My particular boat has an impeller on the aft side of the engine-impossible to get to, other than by braille. I firmly believe that there is (hopefully) a special place in Hell for those who design and construct boats.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Bladders are ok for water and fuel, but not for waste

Interesting. We were just thinking about doing the reverse. What is your biggest complaint about the bladder tank?

The average lifespan of a bladder is almost as short as that of a metal waste tank, due to chafing and material "fatigue" caused by constant expansion and contraction. Fittings are highly prone to leaking and will even blow out at the first sign of a clogged vent...And btw, CG regs prohibit the use of UNvented bladders for sewage holding), which leads the next reason to avoid 'em: because bladders are designed to hug their contents, it's just about impossible to keep the contents aerobic, so odor out the vent every time the head is flushed or even when the boat rocks is just about inevitable. And finally, a decent quality bladder costs even more than a top quality plastic tank.

Gary, opening up your v-berth enough to get a rigid tank into it shouldn't require that much surgery. Simplest solution would prob'ly be: cut the top out, replace it with a piece of plywood. That's what I did to my own boat. Then all I had to do to replace hoses etc was toss out the mattresses and the sheet of plywood...the whole area was then wide open and totally accessible.

 

[Tim R.]

Boats are designed to maxmize interior volume not be easy to work on. There are even some very high end builders that make engine access impossible. A marine mechanic friend of mine says he dreads working on particular Hinckley designs.

Most boats have 1 piece bulkhead and other furniture that simply has to be installed before laying on the deck. I agree that most items that will need to be replaced through normal usage should be able to fit.

 

[BobM]

..and the access port to it...

Every boat designer and builder should be required to have to make repairs on the boats they design-guarantee that designs would change. My particular boat has an impeller on the aft side of the engine-impossible to get to, other than by braille. I firmly believe that there is (hopefully) a special place in Hell for those who design and construct boats.

...and the door to that special place in hell should be a cockpit seat hatch

 

[Gary_H]

I know you are right Peggy...

And I am going to bite the bullet and change out the tank this season..I need to either rebuild or replace the head and all the hoses anyway I might as well do a complete job. I guess I'm just not looking forward to that job.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

When you're ready to start,

Let's discuss everything you think you need to do in detail first?

 

[Ross]

Re: When you're ready to start,

You should have worked on military aircraft. The engines are assembled complete before they are installed. In order to change some of the bolt on pieces you have to pull the engine off the airframe.

 

[Stu Jackson]

We see the same thing in building construction

The "designers" are many times the lowest paid staff members, who never were given an opportunity to get out to a building site and see the results of their work.

The building operators rarely get the design team feedback because they're so damn mad about what they got!

Don't blame 'em at all.

I have spent my career learning from the end users to be able to implement designs that work.

A building is just a big boat. Heck, Phil's battleship avatar could well be the Empire State Building floating horizontally!

 

[Bob V]

Should of bought a Catalina

Every tank on my C42 is easily accessable with no tools but a screwdriver required. That includes 3 water tanks, 2 holding tanks & the fuel tank. I almost forgot to mention the water heater and the engine.

Of course they built 1003 of them for practice before they did mine so they had time to get it right.

Don't mean to be too hard on the Hunters. I've owned both brands and they were all great boats.

 

[Ron McCoy]

Manufacturers, boat designers and the people who put them together are all quilty of putting the dollar before the interests of the boat buyer. If we had to bring our boats back to them for routine/major maintenance and repairs they'd sure build them differently. Do you think the auto manufacturers would build cars that they couldn't replace a major part without taking the rest of the car apart? How many manhours would it save? The fuel tank and holding tanks on my H386 were installed with no thought on ever needing to replace them. When I do, they'll have to be cut apart in small pieces- and then only a smaller tank will ever fit through the lazzarette opening. How about attempting to gain access the wiring/plumbing/etc else where on the boat? Some strategically place access ports would go a long way in helping boat owners keep a civil tougue about these manufacturers. They might as willl be mobile home/RV builders. JMHO.

 

[Dave D]

Ron I agree with you for the most part, but I believe car makers are cramming more and more crap into the engine compartment, making it nearly impossible to do your own maintenance. Then you go to a mechanic and they charge you the "book time" whether they take that long or not. Additionally, I feel that about 80% of the adults in the US put $ before anyone or anything else. But I will stop there before I get banished to the sails call lounge.

 

[higgs]

We continue to buy these boats so aren't they really giving us what we ask for?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Can't help but wonder how reflective "we" are to the overall boating community. It seems to me that folks who frequent this type forum all either have some knowledge or are here looking for it whereas my perception of the general boater is someone who waxes his toy at the beginning of the season, has the yard do the work and shows up on Sat a.m. to "take off" for the weekend armed with only his tow policy number and a vague understanding of where the bilge is located.

As Higgs implies, builders built to the avg boater.

I've seen Catalinas where the water heater is impossible to access under the galley sink just for winterization, never mind actual replacement, Hunters like mine with thruhulls scattered everywhere and other boats which make shaft seal access a circus act tryout.

Maintenance ease isn't on the marketing radar of hinkley or any other mfg.