I pay under $500 for a Catalina 36, and that is inclusive. I don't know how your insurance company can charge you that much. Last year, my insurance company paid some $19,000 to replace the roller furling mast when a shroud gave way. This was after they sent a surveyor to check it out. I am insured through BOAT US. Their rates, by the way, were way better than my homeowners insurance company offered.
boat insurance what for?
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Re Allstate - the company's operations seem to differ from state to state. Both a friend of mine and I had them in WI and IL and they responded beautifully on claims we made.
i am finding Geico is not so cheap. Shop around. Be prepared to have to provide a survey.
i am finding Geico is not so cheap. Shop around. Be prepared to have to provide a survey.
Try BoatUS (www.boatus.com or call 800-383-2883). You will need to become a BoatUS member but that gives you a discount at West Marine. I have my sailboat and ski boat insured through them. Combined annual fee for full coverage is less that I paid for my ski boat through Progressive. Where I live I cannot get boat insurance through my vehicle/house insurer or my motorcycle insurer.
My opinion is, there is a fundamental conflict of interest in insurance. The Ins Co is better served to use their high-priced lawyers to AVOID paying out a claim rather than using them to support your claim.
Unfortunately, here in BC you NEED insurance to get moorage, enter a race, get a haulout... and some marinas insist you need FULL coverage rather than just liability. Why? Because they can, apparently.
I have insurance to cover the legal requirements: I have no hope that if I damage my boat (or someone else damages it) I will be compensated in any manner. And I think that's good. I like to take responsibility for my actions - if I run aground and damage the keel, or keep up too much sail and break the mast, I should pay for it. If someone else damages my boat, THEY should pay for it.
druid - "what the hell - it's insured!"
Unfortunately, here in BC you NEED insurance to get moorage, enter a race, get a haulout... and some marinas insist you need FULL coverage rather than just liability. Why? Because they can, apparently.
I have insurance to cover the legal requirements: I have no hope that if I damage my boat (or someone else damages it) I will be compensated in any manner. And I think that's good. I like to take responsibility for my actions - if I run aground and damage the keel, or keep up too much sail and break the mast, I should pay for it. If someone else damages my boat, THEY should pay for it.
druid - "what the hell - it's insured!"
So I called Boat Us and got a quote and it was about the same as what I am paying now with geico(seasafe)..Im paying 450 a year with geico..and boat us quoted me at 470..minus 10% if I take their online safety course..Now the difference in coverage is astounding..with geico I have 25000 in liability coverage compared to 300000 with boat us..for windstorm or theft geicos deductable jumps to 2000 dollars..boat us is 500 across the board..I also liked the answers the boatus rep gave me when I threw her some hypothetical situations..When the time comes they very well may show me some fine print but for now the answers were all favorable..Another plus for boat us..I could get towing coverage through them as well instead of getting it with seatow..so I just emailed boatus some pics of the boat and hopefully will get coverage soon..unfortunately geico takes away the winter lay up reduction(50 bucks or so) that was with the policy and charges a 10% cancellation fee on the prorated amount..So I am losing about 75 dollars for cancelling with geico..I think its worth it though for the better coverage...
sidenote: one of the scenarios I gave the insurance companies was..what happens if lets say the backstay rips off causing the mast to come down and subsequential damage to the boat..geico says nothing will be covered if it was wear and tear..the boat us rep says that the backstay that caused the domino effect would not be covered if it was broken due to wear and tear..but everything else would be covered -mast, other rigging, damage to the deck caused by mast)..I liked that answer..not sure if I completely believe her though...has anyone ever had a real life rigging/mast failure? did your insurance company stand by you??
sidenote: one of the scenarios I gave the insurance companies was..what happens if lets say the backstay rips off causing the mast to come down and subsequential damage to the boat..geico says nothing will be covered if it was wear and tear..the boat us rep says that the backstay that caused the domino effect would not be covered if it was broken due to wear and tear..but everything else would be covered -mast, other rigging, damage to the deck caused by mast)..I liked that answer..not sure if I completely believe her though...has anyone ever had a real life rigging/mast failure? did your insurance company stand by you??
Insurance is less expensive on the West Coast (probably the only thing that is cheaper). We have BoatUS insurance for our Hunter Vision 36. It has an "agreed upon value" of $80,000. Most of the "car" companies have replacement cost for their policies.
I have heard very little negative feedback from anyone that has had a claim with BoatUS, this is why we switched to them.
I have heard very little negative feedback from anyone that has had a claim with BoatUS, this is why we switched to them.
We have Boat/US and love it. I do have a question, though. You seem fixated on this whole "rig loss due to wear and tear" scenario. TimR kind of called you on it, but you did not respond, so I'll repeat the call out. Why should any insurance policy cover damage that is a direct result of your lack of due diligence and maintenance? Why not thoroughly examine your rig (or have a surveyor do it) and replace worn parts, thus minimizing the possibility of catastrophic failure, instead of simply waiting for it to come down and having insurance buy you a new rig?
We're not worried about our rig coming down because we keep a pretty close eye on it. In fact, we replaced all the standing rigging a few years ago. Seemed like the right thing to do considering the age of the boat.
As I wrote, I had a shroud come loose, causing the mast to bend. After an investigation/inspection by a surveyor, Boat US paid for everything, minus the deductible. Another boat owner in my marine was dismasted after a shroud broke at the swage. His standing rigging was evidently quite old and should have been replaced before. Again, Boat US paid for a new mast and boom.
Rigging quite old, should have been replaced, and Boat US paid anyway? I hope his premiums went up. As a Boat US member/customer who pays premiums and also invests good amounts of $$ in boat maintenance specifically to prevent that sort of thing, kind of bothers me that they paid, no questions asked, even when it was crustal clear that he had neglected needed maintenance.
Not unlike the homeowner who neglects routine maintenance, saves tons of money, then makes an insurance claim when his roof leaks.
"His rigging was evidently quite old and should be replaced" is hardly an objective analysis which undoubtedly would be done by any insurance company if they suspected negligence.
If anyone knows an insurance company which willingly pays off claims arising solely out of negligence, I'd like to know.
Rhetorical question - is old rigging unsafe or is it uninspected and poorly maintained rigging that is unsafe>:naughty:
If anyone knows an insurance company which willingly pays off claims arising solely out of negligence, I'd like to know.
Rhetorical question - is old rigging unsafe or is it uninspected and poorly maintained rigging that is unsafe>:naughty:
So... name a scenario where the owner is NOT at least partially responsible for the damage. Leaving the spinnaker up too long and breaking the mast? Shoulda taken the chute down. Run aground? Read the charts. Gelcoat damage from the dock? Hang more bumpers, or run your docklines differently. So if the Insurance Co should only pay out if the owner could not have done anything to prevent the damage, there would be no payouts.
Like I said... if you take responsibility for your actions (or lack of actions), you would never submit a claim.
druid
Negligence and stupidity are mutually exclusive issues. One of my dock neighbors tried driving his (new) 44 footer under a 20 ft bridge. Fortunately, all he damaged was the headsail but his insurance paid the claim.
Druid, to quote Spiro Agnew- you are a nattering nabob of negativity. My experience with a quality marine insurance company has been nothing but positive. After having no claims for 18 years with various insurance companies the following happened to me. 2008- While sailing in a night race with full crew we were hit by a microburst that spun off a nearby thunderstorm. Catastrophic dismasting, some gelcoat damage, rig and sails over the side to prevent further damage. Insurance paid the claim of $20,000 less $520 deductible. The adjuster handled it promptly and expeditiously. 2009- Same insurance company- next boat. Grounding damage occurred overnight at a dock on South Bass Island due to unexpected seiche condition. Boat came straight down on a rock and fractured fiberglass in the sump area. Very much a freak accident since the keel had to hit at just the right angle to do this. Cost to fix exceeded 80% of insured value, after 2 surveys by insurance company they totalled the boat for the $20,000 insured value. Bottom line Ace handled everything professionally and expeditiously. They require a survey before issuing a policy. Their adjusters are boat knowledgeable. Is insurance worth it, you betcha! And yes they insured me for my current boat again in 2010. My advice to go with a quality marine insurance company. The cost difference is usually minimal and the quality of the policy and service is worth it.
Am guessing that you have Ace Recreational Marine Insurance. Good to hear that you like them as I've just switched to them since Zurich, my previous carrier, let the marinea market.
Sailing Dog- Good guess. In my experience Ace has been very professional. It helps to have a good agent who understands marine insurance and has a good relationship with his carriers.
I was probably a little harsh with Druid but I've been waiting for years to dig up the nattering nabob of negativity line. I forgot Druid was Canadian and might not know who Spiro Agnew was.
I was probably a little harsh with Druid but I've been waiting for years to dig up the nattering nabob of negativity line. I forgot Druid was Canadian and might not know who Spiro Agnew was.
Insurance Companies are your best friends
Most sailors will be surprised to learn that their policy will almost certainly have a "mechanical failure" exclusion. Trust me, if your throttle sticks open through no fault of your own and you wreck your boat, you will have no insurance coverage because the accident was caused by"mechanical failure." If your brand new rig comes down the first day you use it, expect denial of coverage for "mechanical failure." Insurance is ONLY useful for towing and general liability coverage.
It is important to recognize that insurance companies will deny any claim that they do not want to pay, regardless of any issue in the real world. If your boat is not worth much, don't expect the insurance company to pay you anything at all, no matter what the circumstances are. If your boat is worth a lot, don't expect a huge check without a fight.
Insurance companies like to present themselves as your buddy, but the only thing that any insurance company cares about is looking friendly for purposes of advertising and solicitation. No larger sharks exist in any ocean than these guys.
Paying claims is completely up to them, not you. If you don't like it, you can insure (har har) that justice will prevail if you litigate. Oh, and don't worry, if you sue your insurance company, they won't cancel your policy or tell any other insurance company about how much trouble you caused. I feel really warm and fuzzy when I think about insurance. They are such wonderful people.
Most sailors will be surprised to learn that their policy will almost certainly have a "mechanical failure" exclusion. Trust me, if your throttle sticks open through no fault of your own and you wreck your boat, you will have no insurance coverage because the accident was caused by"mechanical failure." If your brand new rig comes down the first day you use it, expect denial of coverage for "mechanical failure." Insurance is ONLY useful for towing and general liability coverage.
It is important to recognize that insurance companies will deny any claim that they do not want to pay, regardless of any issue in the real world. If your boat is not worth much, don't expect the insurance company to pay you anything at all, no matter what the circumstances are. If your boat is worth a lot, don't expect a huge check without a fight.
Insurance companies like to present themselves as your buddy, but the only thing that any insurance company cares about is looking friendly for purposes of advertising and solicitation. No larger sharks exist in any ocean than these guys.
Paying claims is completely up to them, not you. If you don't like it, you can insure (har har) that justice will prevail if you litigate. Oh, and don't worry, if you sue your insurance company, they won't cancel your policy or tell any other insurance company about how much trouble you caused. I feel really warm and fuzzy when I think about insurance. They are such wonderful people.
Mechanical Failure Exclusion & Rig Failure
The post re: mechanical failure is incorrect. This also applies to the rig failure issue. Here's the deal: damaged directly caused by mechanical failure isn't covered. Your shaft breaks. The shaft isn't covered. Your Edson sprocket breaks. Sprocket not covered. Your boat sinks because the shaft pulled out after it broke. Covered except for the shaft. Your boat hits a piling after the sprocket failed. Boat covered. Sprocket not. And, yes, stupidity or negligence resulting in damage is usually covered (and can be argued is the largest cause of damage to begin with). The mast fails. It takes out the stanchions, bimini, radar, mainsail and furler. The mast should be excluded but the rest of the stuff covered.
To answer the question more directly, I had an O'Day 27 which had a tang fitting pull out of the stay due to a crack. I was insured with State Farm. The rig was totalled, but no sail damage. The claim examiner denied the damage as mechanical failure. I said the mechanical failure was the tang fitting, or maybe the stay if you consider it one unit but not the rig. The rig was consequentially damaged as a result of the stay failing. Upon review, they agreed and covered the rig less the deductible and stay.
Mechanical failure is an item that has been litigated a lot, so there is some case law on it, but there is also a lot of confusion among claim reps.
The post re: mechanical failure is incorrect. This also applies to the rig failure issue. Here's the deal: damaged directly caused by mechanical failure isn't covered. Your shaft breaks. The shaft isn't covered. Your Edson sprocket breaks. Sprocket not covered. Your boat sinks because the shaft pulled out after it broke. Covered except for the shaft. Your boat hits a piling after the sprocket failed. Boat covered. Sprocket not. And, yes, stupidity or negligence resulting in damage is usually covered (and can be argued is the largest cause of damage to begin with). The mast fails. It takes out the stanchions, bimini, radar, mainsail and furler. The mast should be excluded but the rest of the stuff covered.
To answer the question more directly, I had an O'Day 27 which had a tang fitting pull out of the stay due to a crack. I was insured with State Farm. The rig was totalled, but no sail damage. The claim examiner denied the damage as mechanical failure. I said the mechanical failure was the tang fitting, or maybe the stay if you consider it one unit but not the rig. The rig was consequentially damaged as a result of the stay failing. Upon review, they agreed and covered the rig less the deductible and stay.
Mechanical failure is an item that has been litigated a lot, so there is some case law on it, but there is also a lot of confusion among claim reps.
For the 1978 Ranger 28 tall rig, Allstate (my homeowners and auto insurance carrier) quoted 800/yr (ish) Boat US quoted 200 (ish) a year... and about the same insurance amount. I need liability minimum required to rent slip. Boat US also does tows and trailer help. I plan to go that route.
Both carriers did require survey from a qualified surveyor.
Both carriers did require survey from a qualified surveyor.
Rick D is correct - I hate when that happens. consequential loss is covered, but not the replacement cost of the part causing the consequential loss, if part broke due to lack of maintenance.
Also, unlike auto policies which are "standardized" by each state's insurance commissioner, boat policies can say whatever they want. READ YOUR POLICY it doesn't matter what the agent tells you when you ask for an example of a loss.
Also, unlike auto policies which are "standardized" by each state's insurance commissioner, boat policies can say whatever they want. READ YOUR POLICY it doesn't matter what the agent tells you when you ask for an example of a loss.
I don't know what the marina's are like in the US but up here in Canada they are all starting to adopt a policy of having at least $2,000,000.00 liabilitiy or they won't let you stay. So make sure you have a copy of your policy on board when visiting.
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