Boat in the cradle for the winter- Bilge full of water?

Jun 1, 2019
21
Oday 30 Saugatuck
Hello Boat Owners:

I have a 1980 Oday 30, current sitting in the cradle for the winter. We put a tarp over it best we can, it didn't do any good. Still a lot of snow (West Michigan), sitting in on top of the boat. I went down below, opened the bilge, to my surprise there is about 5" of frozen water at the bottom of the bilge.

That bilge was bone dry when I left it in September. We had a lot of rain earlier this fall. The only way rain can get in is maybe a small leak in the port hole, the mast needs a new boot, and the solar fan isn't a good cover. But 5" of water is crazy.

So I have two questions: Is my float, wiring and bilge ok being frozen under a block of ice? And how is it possible that much water went to the bilge? Perhaps the drains outside the cockpit came lose and don't run outside the boat anymore? I forgot to inspect that area.

All thoughts are appreciated. Thanks for our help
 
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
The cockpit drains are certainly worth checking, also because they can crack and leak even if they’re still attached.
We did have about that much ice once or twice in our O’day 28, though that was after more months. I always attributed it to the mast step and down the inside the mast itself.
 
Apr 11, 2010
946
Hunter 38 Whitehall MI
Is it a Keel stepped mast? If so its very likely water runs down the mast to the bilge. That coupled with the other possible sources you mentioned could accumulate that much water. Especially with the amount of rain we’ve had in Michigan.
I do think you need to get as much of the water out as possible. if frozen it could damage float, pump and maybe even put stress on the hull as the ice expands.

my previous boat had keel stepped mast and I always put a gallon of antifreeze in the bilge to prevent freezing just in case.

oh and I’ve always had a full cover over the boat. I used to use the infamous blue tarps and found that they are a pain to put on and don’t really work all that well. So now I have this wonderful company in Whitehall make a custom cover. I’ve had one on previous Catalina 34 and now on the Hunter 38. The cover keeps water out of cockpit, protects the decks and covers ports and everything else.
 

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Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Seeing 5" of ice in your bilge will make your heart sink - it did mine. The fact that I had a potential buyer with me when I discovered the situation caused a lot of upset. Lesson: When selling a boat don't show up after a 4 month layup with a buyer. Go check it out first. The boat survived but isn't sold yet. Ugh. In my case the cabin door (This is a I/O cruiser) was left open. There was a cover over the whole cockpit so I can't figure how that much water got in, but it did. I've considered that it might have been the water tank leaking (Not enough volume), or even that someone came aboard and caused the open door. I can't think of much else.
I pulled big chunks of ice out of the cabin and threw them overboard - onto the hard. Then with the smaller pieces I put a lot of them in the sinks hoping they would melt in the warm spells. For the water in the engine area I had the boatyard send someone down to pump it (There was liquid water under the ice.) Once done I could break up ice again and toss it overboard. NOT A FUN DAY! As March came around there were days when I could open the boat up to air out. And that worked pretty well. But we moved in April and it was until September until I could revisit the boat. It wasn't awful. The weather changes and ventilation had dried out the boat. There was some mildew but not that bad. The boatyard guys evidently found the bilge drain because it was laying on top of the air cleaner. The bilge was bone dry.
Oh and to your question: My bilge pump float survived. I don't think it was ever frozen. The boat survived but I still don't know what happened.
 
Oct 9, 2013
72
Beneteau First 38 Belmont Harbor
If the boat is keel stepped then I too suspect that water is making its way 1) down the inside of the mast (and past the internal dam/block that is supposed to divert this water onto the deck, or 2) that the mast boot is leaking.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Hello Boat Owners:

I have a 1980 Oday 30, current sitting in the cradle for the winter. We put a tarp over it best we can, it didn't do any good. Still a lot of snow (West Michigan), sitting in on top of the boat. I went down below, opened the bilge, to my surprise there is about 5" of frozen water at the bottom of the bilge.

That bilge was bone dry when I left it in September. We had a lot of rain earlier this fall. The only way rain can get in is maybe a small leak in the port hole, the mast needs a new boot, and the solar fan isn't a good cover. But 5" of water is crazy.

So I have two questions: Is my float, wiring and bilge ok being frozen under a block of ice? And how is it possible that much water went to the bilge? Perhaps the drains outside the cockpit came lose and don't run outside the boat anymore? I forgot to inspect that area.

All thoughts are appreciated. Thanks for our help
A keel stepped mast will allow water to enter the bilge. How much depends on the mast and how the openings are oriented to allow rain to get in.

The mast boot could be another source. If the boot needs replacing consider a waterboot much better than the vinyl ones and easier to install.

Cockpit drains and deck scuppers are another potential source.

When the HW tank was drained, where did the water go? And was it pumped out?

Whatever damage was done to the bilge pump and float switch is done. It might be better to leave frozen until spring.

Consider adding a garboard drain plug. This plug goes into the lowest point in the bilge/keel sump. Once the boat is hauled, remove the plug and any water entering the bilge will drain out. Keep Your Bilge Dry with a Garboard Drain Plug. There are other ways of adding the drain besides the one in Sail.

Consider a custom fitted cover and frame. They can be expensive, however they work better than tarps, especially blue poly tarps and cheaper over the long run than shrink wrap. They also allow easy access during the winter months and it is warm under the tarp in the spring.

Good luck!
 
Nov 21, 2007
631
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
Lots of votes for the keel stepped mast, so far. We had a First 285 with a propane locker cut into the vertical transom. It had a flange that fit over the cut out, but the sealant between the locker flange and the transom had deteriorated, and when rainy season started... our bone-dry boat on the water, was leaking on dry land! :yikes: It took me about two years to chase that one down.

If the keel stepped mast is not the culprit, look for anywhere that water can flow along a surface to an opening (whether the opening is supposed to be sealed, or not).

Good luck!
 
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Jan 7, 2011
4,727
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
I have an O’Day 322 and I have a nice canvas cover on her. I too have water in my bilge, and I have a deck-stepped mast.

I always pour some pink antifreeze in the bilge when winterizing the rest of the boat just to make sure nothing freezes solid enough to crack or break something.

FF3D59EB-1773-41DB-AB86-B0BE418EC857.jpeg

Greg
 
Jun 7, 2016
315
Catalina C30 Warwick, RI
Obviously the water can be coming from anywhere, but I think one point to remember is rain water can accumulate a lot more water than we realize. For example, I have a 12' aluminum boat on a small lake that I keep in the water with a "water proof" cover. We had a couple bad rain storms and over the course of a month, normally the boat stays completely dry with the cover, but apparently there were 2 small openings that became exposed and after a month I found the boat 3/4 full of water. I wired up a bilge pump and a battery and it took about 15 minutes for it to pump it out. By my rough math of timing how long it took the pump to pump it out, I figure the boat had between 250 - 300 gallons of water in it.

My point is, even with only small entry points, rain water can add up to way more water than we think. Having 5 inches of water in a bilge with multiple points of entry i.e. stanchions, lazzarettes, portholes, etc.... isn't that much, even a small leak in any of those can add up over time.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
It won't help now but along this coast, most boats that are stored outside have garboard plugs installed. After you get the ice out you might consider installing one. They are a simple foolproof means for a dry bilge in an outside stored boat.

 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
It won't help now but along this coast, most boats that are stored outside have garboard plugs installed. After you get the ice out you might consider installing one. They are a simple foolproof means for a dry bilge in an outside stored boat.

This the type of garboard drain plug to get. the plug sits flush with the hull. It is made by Perko. A ½ drive ratchet will remove and install it.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
It doesn't take very much water to rise 5" (at least not in my bilge). I've had frozen water in my bilge more times than I can count. The bilge pump and float has never failed to work. I hear the words of warning, but I just don't have that experience. Frozen water does damage when it is confined and causes pressure. I don't think it causes any damage in the bilge. I have worried about the keel bolts, and I think that is the most valid concern. After years and years of the same concern over damage to keel bolts, there is never, ever water entering from outside the boat when it is sitting in the water and there has not been any rain. I've never seen any affect in over 15 years and the boat is now 35 years old. It may be ready for the dumpster at some point in time, but I've not seen any change despite my worries during 15 years over the same imperfections. I've just stopped worrying over the little things.

The garboard plug is an excellent idea. They are installed in most power boats that I have seen. I don't now why not sailboats - but it probably has something to do with the fact that the keel is directly underneath the low point in the bilge.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Add a little of the pink anti-freeze to your bilge. It will help the ice melt and then you can sponge it out. Then add a little more of the pink stuff and that will keep ice out of your bilge pump and drain hoses.
 
Jan 24, 2017
666
Hunter 34 Toms River Nj
I would try to chip out as much ice as possible then add concentrate non tox antifreeze or calcium powder which melts ice very well. You can get the calcium powder from any swimming pool store . Mine froze up a few years ago and it killed my pump. In the future dry out the bildge and add consent non tox thru the pump. You might want to turn your battery switch to off so no power goes to the pump.
That much water seems to be a lot. I should as others have suggested check all drains including a anchor well drain.
 
Jan 7, 2014
395
Beneteau 45F5 51551 Port Jefferson
I put pink stuff in the bilge whenever I visit the boat in the winter since gets diluted by the rainwater running down the mast. I have had my bilge freeze over, no damage to the pump but it can't be good for it or the hoses.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
The garboard plug is an excellent idea. They are installed in most power boats that I have seen. I don't now why not sailboats - but it probably has something to do with the fact that the keel is directly underneath the low point in the bilge.
Garboard plugs could be a local, when in Rome, thing. When we kept a boat on Lake Champlain in Vermont, I recall ice in the bilge problems weren't unusual. It's hard to keep water out of an outside stored boat no matter how it's covered. Chase it with heat guns, heaters and anti freeze was the norm.

Once I was located in Maine, nearly all the boats had garboard plugs and no problem with ice in the bilge. The idea that you will forget to put the plug in isn't a worry unless you forget to put hoses on thru hulls, transducers in place, etc.

Drilling a hole in your hull may seem severe (and it is). To install a garboard plug, you should follow the measure twice, cut (drill) once adage, a few times. To take some of the fear out of it I use a small pilot bit first. Worse case, you have a small hole to fill with epoxy.

The perfect spot is right at bottom of course, so the bilge drains dry. I use it as a drive by test to see if the cover is leaking anywhere. If you see water coming out,...
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Before I had a full cover that kept the boat dry, I would throw a big sponge and some rags into the bilge. The theory being that they would absorb any water and freeze, thus protecting other things in the bilge.
 

DaveJ

.
Apr 2, 2013
449
Catalina 310 Niagara-on-the-Lake
Most boats in our club have the garboard plugs. We have a member that worked at C&C for years, he's not afraid to drill a hole in the hull. He gives it a good look, says 'give me that drill', I don't think he has missed yet! He drills from the bilge, at an angle.
I would measure 10 times, and then probably not drill the hole....
Cheers
dj
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
My boat has a canvas cover for the winter and I still get water in the bilge. I realized last year that the canvas has lost all of it's water repellant properties over the 11 or 12 years that I've had it. I used to think that water must trickle in from the deck stepped mast base with it's hole for the wiring (I had that problem for a while) but I sealed that issue and it is never an issue in the summer rains anymore. I don't see how dripping water from the canvas makes it into the boat. My conclusion is that all of the water must be a collection of condensation.

Lately, since I've been at Mariners, they put antifreeze in the bilge and then I promptly mop it out because I can't stand all that sticky stuff in the bilge. But then I still get a few inches of water that freezes on and off. We don't have a solid freeze from December thru March as others have. Most of the time that I go to the boat in the winter there is sometimes ice and some melting water and I just clean it out. But I also know that my bilge pump has been submerged and frozen multiple times. I think a bilge is like an ice tray. The water freezes but there is no pressure. Ice is relatively plastic. Where there is space to expand, that's where it expands. It only causes damage in places like pipes where the water is under pressure and the ice has no room for expansion. Ice will split a copper pipe or a steel engine block in a heartbeat, yet you can fill a flimsy metal or plastic ice tray over and over again and there is no damage.

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that a bilge pump will only be damaged if there is electricity present to switch the pump on when the water is frozen. Otherwise, the expanding ice must just expand in a manner that doesn't damage the pump. I'm sure that I don't have some magic bilge pump that can withstand ice! :biggrin: I just know that nothing, not even ice, seems to kill my cheap Rule bilge pump! I've stopped worrying about it because the worrying doesn't seem to matter. And, it's a relatively cheap item to replace, even though I've never had to replace it.

Like I said before, I fear that water creeps in around the keel bolts and may cause fiberglass damage when it freezes. But I never see any appearance of problems around the bolts or at the keel joint, and I know for sure that seawater doesn't seep in. I'm thinking that I'll be buried before this fiberglass boat needs to be! :biggrin:

I don't have any fear about drilling a hole for a garboard plug. I had one in my ski boat and never had a problem remembering to insert the plug whenever necessary. I just don't know where I can install it where it will do any good. The bottom of my bilge is directly over a lead keel. Maybe there is a place where I can install it behind the keel, but that isn't a low area and the bilge would still have a few inches of water unless I tipped the boat backwards at an extreme angle. Where do they place these drains on the Maine boats? I can't envision where it could be installed. Do they drill a hole through the side of the keel? Or maybe the side of the bilge? My bilge from side-to-side is only the width of the keel. That would be my problem.
 
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