Boat for seadance?
- Thread starter allen13458
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3 strikes
yellow gas engine E32 with a "split" cockpit - poor implementation of a not-bad idea - very hard ergonomically
yellow gas engine E32 with a "split" cockpit - poor implementation of a not-bad idea - very hard ergonomically
4th strike
Plus, I have found the people at Turner Marine rather difficult to deal with, if the boat was under six figures.
Plus, I have found the people at Turner Marine rather difficult to deal with, if the boat was under six figures.
Worth a look
It's obvious that someone has put a lot of time in on up-keep. Has not sat there unused for years. The varnished interior wood and newish cushions means that the boat is most likely sealed up well. Good dodger and bimini. ready to go island hoping. Close to home. Good price.
It's obvious that someone has put a lot of time in on up-keep. Has not sat there unused for years. The varnished interior wood and newish cushions means that the boat is most likely sealed up well. Good dodger and bimini. ready to go island hoping. Close to home. Good price.
matter of preference
nice boat ut for that $$$ id prefer a newer and wider boat with more beam for room in salon. ever looked at a hunter 30 for abt the same $$$ with diesel instead of gas?
nice boat ut for that $$$ id prefer a newer and wider boat with more beam for room in salon. ever looked at a hunter 30 for abt the same $$$ with diesel instead of gas?
That is about the same size and layout
as Bietzpadlin. Seems like it will accomodate four over night. There is no mention of a holding tank (?). Probably worth a look. Seems like a lot was spent for exterior comfort but not much on modernization on the inside. The two burner stove with oven is nice.
as Bietzpadlin. Seems like it will accomodate four over night. There is no mention of a holding tank (?). Probably worth a look. Seems like a lot was spent for exterior comfort but not much on modernization on the inside. The two burner stove with oven is nice.
Re:matter of preference
Oh boy are the old boat lovers going to jump on you! I agree with Rogar, 100% but many old boats are built stronger than newer boats! I don't think that the new productions will have the life span of some of the older boats out there. Still, have to go with the diesel!
Oh boy are the old boat lovers going to jump on you! I agree with Rogar, 100% but many old boats are built stronger than newer boats! I don't think that the new productions will have the life span of some of the older boats out there. Still, have to go with the diesel!
If the A-4 is still good and it comes with
a good bilge blower and it is properly cared for it will serve well for many years. It also has a propane stove and there are folk here that blanch with fear at the thought of having propane on board. In both cases if you can smell the vapors you have a leak! Then you need to be diligent about finding and correcting it.
a good bilge blower and it is properly cared for it will serve well for many years. It also has a propane stove and there are folk here that blanch with fear at the thought of having propane on board. In both cases if you can smell the vapors you have a leak! Then you need to be diligent about finding and correcting it.
Why the knock on gas engines?
It seems to me that the only advantage of a gas engine over diesel is fuel economy, which would be a big deal if you are a long range cruiser. But for a weekend cruiser, why make that an issue at all? From personal experience, I find that gas engines run quieter, smoother, and are less problematic. I always wonder everytime I hear about the problems that people describe about fuel filter changes under emergency conditions and sediment and algae growing in the tank. My own small diesel is a noisy little engine that belches oily smoke with every start up and it vibrates and shakes way more than a small gas engine would. I have a ski boat with a straight inboard gas engine (chevy 350 ci block - mercruiser marine engine) and in 20 years it has been the most trouble free engine I have ever had. I have never had a single problem on the water. I have no idea where you folks think safety is an issue. Sure gas is explosive, but it requires far less effort to safeguard than you have to put into all the other myriad of safety issues that sailors have to guard against and seems like a pretty minor concern to me given the millions of boats that run on gas engines without any explosions. The gas inboard runs very clean, no vibration, far less objectionable noise, I rarely even think about changing the impeller for the raw water pump, much less change it yearly, and never have even given a thought to problems with the fuel or the fuel lines, which seems like a constant source of aggrevation with diesel fuel. I don't have stuffing box issues becasue the shaft turns with no vibration. It seems to me that gas engines are far more reliable, have far smoother running characteristics, and far fewer fuel line issues than diesels. My own gas engine has been running perfectly for 20 years and I have far more confidence in it than I have for that little diesel that we call chitty chitty bang bang because of the way it bangs, shakes and sounds like hell.
I know that sailors prefer diesels and I don't intend to buck the tide, but I still don't get it! *o
It seems to me that the only advantage of a gas engine over diesel is fuel economy, which would be a big deal if you are a long range cruiser. But for a weekend cruiser, why make that an issue at all? From personal experience, I find that gas engines run quieter, smoother, and are less problematic. I always wonder everytime I hear about the problems that people describe about fuel filter changes under emergency conditions and sediment and algae growing in the tank. My own small diesel is a noisy little engine that belches oily smoke with every start up and it vibrates and shakes way more than a small gas engine would. I have a ski boat with a straight inboard gas engine (chevy 350 ci block - mercruiser marine engine) and in 20 years it has been the most trouble free engine I have ever had. I have never had a single problem on the water. I have no idea where you folks think safety is an issue. Sure gas is explosive, but it requires far less effort to safeguard than you have to put into all the other myriad of safety issues that sailors have to guard against and seems like a pretty minor concern to me given the millions of boats that run on gas engines without any explosions. The gas inboard runs very clean, no vibration, far less objectionable noise, I rarely even think about changing the impeller for the raw water pump, much less change it yearly, and never have even given a thought to problems with the fuel or the fuel lines, which seems like a constant source of aggrevation with diesel fuel. I don't have stuffing box issues becasue the shaft turns with no vibration. It seems to me that gas engines are far more reliable, have far smoother running characteristics, and far fewer fuel line issues than diesels. My own gas engine has been running perfectly for 20 years and I have far more confidence in it than I have for that little diesel that we call chitty chitty bang bang because of the way it bangs, shakes and sounds like hell.
I know that sailors prefer diesels and I don't intend to buck the tide, but I still don't get it! *o
Scott you have serveral good points
Anyway.... Diesels are better hands down. Fuel economy is only a minor benefit (except with my VW TDI that gets 45 MPG). Diesel engines will last forever if they get proper maintenance. The fuel is a lubricate and reduces friction thereby reducing wear thus prolonging engine life. There are not spark plugs, engine blower or flame arrestor required with diesel. This is clear proof they are safer! I do have a blower in my boat with a diesel engine. I like it because it helps keep the diesel smell out of the AFT cabin.
Anyway.... Diesels are better hands down. Fuel economy is only a minor benefit (except with my VW TDI that gets 45 MPG). Diesel engines will last forever if they get proper maintenance. The fuel is a lubricate and reduces friction thereby reducing wear thus prolonging engine life. There are not spark plugs, engine blower or flame arrestor required with diesel. This is clear proof they are safer! I do have a blower in my boat with a diesel engine. I like it because it helps keep the diesel smell out of the AFT cabin.
Go either way
I have had both engines. Diesel for the last 2 years, gas for previous 25+ yrs. I would not walk away from a boat I wanted because it was gas. Gas is no problem to a skipper that is willing to check for fumes before starting. I like diesel better: 1. It is nicer not to be concerned about the fume issue 2. Diesels are stronger in the low rpm range where we spend our time. They stop and start a boat with more authority than a gas engine 3. Better range 4. While noisier, I find the low rumble of diesel less noticable than the noise of a gas engine.
I have had both engines. Diesel for the last 2 years, gas for previous 25+ yrs. I would not walk away from a boat I wanted because it was gas. Gas is no problem to a skipper that is willing to check for fumes before starting. I like diesel better: 1. It is nicer not to be concerned about the fume issue 2. Diesels are stronger in the low rpm range where we spend our time. They stop and start a boat with more authority than a gas engine 3. Better range 4. While noisier, I find the low rumble of diesel less noticable than the noise of a gas engine.
A-4 is a great engine
Mine used to jump to life every time I turned the key. My diesel has to be flogged to life. I am going to have to come clean right here and now! I have a lawnmower that runs on gas, and believe it or not so does my weed-eater. AND if thats not bad enough I drive out to my boat in a car that runs on gas. I guess I am not going to make it.
Mine used to jump to life every time I turned the key. My diesel has to be flogged to life. I am going to have to come clean right here and now! I have a lawnmower that runs on gas, and believe it or not so does my weed-eater. AND if thats not bad enough I drive out to my boat in a car that runs on gas. I guess I am not going to make it.
An A-4 that's been taken good care of
will last for many years. Moyer Marine and Featherman (I believe) still support them. For novices to inboard engines, it would make sense to have an engine survey performed. Moyer has many upgrades available to make them more reliable, safer and it's good to know that there is a place to obtain parts.
will last for many years. Moyer Marine and Featherman (I believe) still support them. For novices to inboard engines, it would make sense to have an engine survey performed. Moyer has many upgrades available to make them more reliable, safer and it's good to know that there is a place to obtain parts.
"Anemic Four"
The 'Anemic four' nickname, in common usage, is a bit of a misnomer in my view, and started by folks who did little or no maintenence on the engine. For a rough & tough, can take it all, 30 h.p. maranized engine, you can hardly beat it with a stick. Do not have to bleed injectors, raw water cooled, easily repaired, lots of room to work, and if maintained will always start right up. Flash point of gasoline is low, hence A-1 USCG approved hose is required by law, fixed fire extinguisher system highly recommended, blowers MUST be used. These engines were designed to be run at high, above 2,000, RPM's and can be flushed out on occasion by a 10 to 1 ration of white vinegar to relieve the salt crystals inside the water jackets. Many over thirty years old still giving good service...;-)
The 'Anemic four' nickname, in common usage, is a bit of a misnomer in my view, and started by folks who did little or no maintenence on the engine. For a rough & tough, can take it all, 30 h.p. maranized engine, you can hardly beat it with a stick. Do not have to bleed injectors, raw water cooled, easily repaired, lots of room to work, and if maintained will always start right up. Flash point of gasoline is low, hence A-1 USCG approved hose is required by law, fixed fire extinguisher system highly recommended, blowers MUST be used. These engines were designed to be run at high, above 2,000, RPM's and can be flushed out on occasion by a 10 to 1 ration of white vinegar to relieve the salt crystals inside the water jackets. Many over thirty years old still giving good service...;-)
Mine is almost 30 years old
and when I bought the boat, she was on the hard for 18 months. The surveyor hooked up a tank o' coolant, I turned the key and voila, she started right up. I've had no serious issues with it except it was a little noisy. Beginning of this season I did a complete tune-up and she purrs like a kitten....well maybe a larger, older cat...and runs great. I've worked on some diesels on friends' boats and the A4 seems alot simpler to work on. Maybe because it is older and wasn;t as technoligically advanced as the diesels! BTW, if you buy the boat with the A4, check Don Moyer's website, www.moyermarine.com. He and his staff are the greatest! In a nutshell, don't let the fact that the boat has an A4 scare you away. If they are maintained, they'll last a long, long time! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
and when I bought the boat, she was on the hard for 18 months. The surveyor hooked up a tank o' coolant, I turned the key and voila, she started right up. I've had no serious issues with it except it was a little noisy. Beginning of this season I did a complete tune-up and she purrs like a kitten....well maybe a larger, older cat...and runs great. I've worked on some diesels on friends' boats and the A4 seems alot simpler to work on. Maybe because it is older and wasn;t as technoligically advanced as the diesels! BTW, if you buy the boat with the A4, check Don Moyer's website, www.moyermarine.com. He and his staff are the greatest! In a nutshell, don't let the fact that the boat has an A4 scare you away. If they are maintained, they'll last a long, long time! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
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