My wife and I went to Houston over the weekend to look at a couple of boats. I had contacted the broker/owner a couple of times to discuss the boats and to let him know which boats we were looking at. I even streesed the fact that we were not window shopping and were serious about finding a boat. I was absoulutely surprised at the condition of the boats when we got there. It was obvious that no attempts were made to pressent these vessels in "show" shape. This was not just for us but anybody. The boats were dirty, cluttered and otherwise not presentable. This was in an area where there were brokers side by side. I know when I sold my boat, my wife and I were meticulous about the condition when we showed it to buyers. We even went through the boat before we handed the keys over to the new owners. This was my first experience looking for a boat through a brokerage house. Is this what I should expect, or........is this out of the ordinary? I know I will not step foot on his pier again. Thank you for letting me rant. RG
- Status
I've had some
experience in the brokerage business and would say that you are right to feel the way you do. But the responsibility for maintenance and upkeep of boats in brokerage is usually that of the owner unless other arrangements have been made. Many sellers make the mistake of turning their boat over to the broker, buying a new boat, and then forgetting the old one. Boats that are clean, and where everything works, will sell in almost any market. Those that are not will sit for long periods of time and suffer numerous price reductions before being sold. I was astounded a few years ago when I was shopping for my current boat. I found an ad for a boat that I had some interest in but it was pretty far away. I notified the broker that I was coming to see it a few weeks prior to the trip. When I arrived, he couldn't find the key for the boat. When we got to the lot where the boat was on the hard, he couldn't find the boat. When we finally stumbled on it, it was a mess inside. I took one look and quickly told him I wasn't interested....
experience in the brokerage business and would say that you are right to feel the way you do. But the responsibility for maintenance and upkeep of boats in brokerage is usually that of the owner unless other arrangements have been made. Many sellers make the mistake of turning their boat over to the broker, buying a new boat, and then forgetting the old one. Boats that are clean, and where everything works, will sell in almost any market. Those that are not will sit for long periods of time and suffer numerous price reductions before being sold. I was astounded a few years ago when I was shopping for my current boat. I found an ad for a boat that I had some interest in but it was pretty far away. I notified the broker that I was coming to see it a few weeks prior to the trip. When I arrived, he couldn't find the key for the boat. When we got to the lot where the boat was on the hard, he couldn't find the boat. When we finally stumbled on it, it was a mess inside. I took one look and quickly told him I wasn't interested....
Thanks Warren
I thought the whole program for a broker was to sell a boat so he/she could make money. I amnot sure how this one will make any money. I spoke with this guy twice, asking specific questions, and let hm know that I was serious, money in hand, ready to buy a boat. Of course I was still going to have a survey completed before any deal would be finalized. Bottom line, I was a paying and ready customer. I am so glad car lots do not operate the way this guy does. Anyway, back to Houston and Austin later this week to look at two different ODays.
I thought the whole program for a broker was to sell a boat so he/she could make money. I amnot sure how this one will make any money. I spoke with this guy twice, asking specific questions, and let hm know that I was serious, money in hand, ready to buy a boat. Of course I was still going to have a survey completed before any deal would be finalized. Bottom line, I was a paying and ready customer. I am so glad car lots do not operate the way this guy does. Anyway, back to Houston and Austin later this week to look at two different ODays.
Boat Cleanliness
I have bought two previously owned boats over the last 5 years. I too was astounded by the condition of many boats that we looked at, one with underwear in the cabin floor, another just full of junk. Both instances the two different brokers told me that they had tried to convince the owners to clean up. I may be wrong, but I don't think it is the broker's place to clean the boats up. I know that if I were going to sell mine, I would be visiting the boat regularly to keep it cleaned up, and I wouldn't be relying on the broker to do so.
I have bought two previously owned boats over the last 5 years. I too was astounded by the condition of many boats that we looked at, one with underwear in the cabin floor, another just full of junk. Both instances the two different brokers told me that they had tried to convince the owners to clean up. I may be wrong, but I don't think it is the broker's place to clean the boats up. I know that if I were going to sell mine, I would be visiting the boat regularly to keep it cleaned up, and I wouldn't be relying on the broker to do so.
boat cleanliness (not)
I have a theory; Spouse or SO of owner lays down an ultimatium. SELL THAT BOAT OR ELSE! Owner leaves the boat dirty and funky on purpose, then can say to wife/SO "I'm trying to sell it, but no is offering!" Owner gets to keep boat.
I have a theory; Spouse or SO of owner lays down an ultimatium. SELL THAT BOAT OR ELSE! Owner leaves the boat dirty and funky on purpose, then can say to wife/SO "I'm trying to sell it, but no is offering!" Owner gets to keep boat.
same experience
Hello, I had similar experiences when I was shopping for my boat. I looked at a lot of broker boats and a few for sale by owner. Most of them (both owner and broker boats) were dirty, smelly boats that I would never consider buying. It got to the point where I would ask the person point blank - is the boat clean and in good condition or not? I got some very amusing answers. I don't know how people expect to sell a boat like that. My boats are always kept clean and tidy. When I finally did buy a boat, and had to sell my Catalina 22, I received an email from a guy who was interested, but was a few hours away. I told him, "take your time, look at all the junk boats near you. When are ready, take a look at my boat and if you will buy it." And that's just what happened. I'm just about ready to sell my current boat, a 1986 Newport 28 (I'm ready for a 33-36 boat). And you can be sure it will have eye appeal, smell nice, be clean and dry, etc. before anyone steps aboard. Barry
Hello, I had similar experiences when I was shopping for my boat. I looked at a lot of broker boats and a few for sale by owner. Most of them (both owner and broker boats) were dirty, smelly boats that I would never consider buying. It got to the point where I would ask the person point blank - is the boat clean and in good condition or not? I got some very amusing answers. I don't know how people expect to sell a boat like that. My boats are always kept clean and tidy. When I finally did buy a boat, and had to sell my Catalina 22, I received an email from a guy who was interested, but was a few hours away. I told him, "take your time, look at all the junk boats near you. When are ready, take a look at my boat and if you will buy it." And that's just what happened. I'm just about ready to sell my current boat, a 1986 Newport 28 (I'm ready for a 33-36 boat). And you can be sure it will have eye appeal, smell nice, be clean and dry, etc. before anyone steps aboard. Barry
"Show condition"...
is more often than not a great indicator of how the boat has been treated and/or not maintained. When moving fom my old 28.5 which was bought and sold in imaculate condition to the 35.5 I ultimately bought, I too was shocked at the condition boats were presented to me in as "for sale". When I first looked at my 35.5, you could eat cereal out of the bilge and I told the broker, "this is more like it". Don't know what people are thinking by not cleaning up the boat and removing trash, clutter, personal items.
is more often than not a great indicator of how the boat has been treated and/or not maintained. When moving fom my old 28.5 which was bought and sold in imaculate condition to the 35.5 I ultimately bought, I too was shocked at the condition boats were presented to me in as "for sale". When I first looked at my 35.5, you could eat cereal out of the bilge and I told the broker, "this is more like it". Don't know what people are thinking by not cleaning up the boat and removing trash, clutter, personal items.
Need To Add My 2 Cents.....
Could not resist the urge to drop a few lines on this one....2-1/2 years ago I was in the market for a late 70's/early 80's Tartan 37. After finding one on the web on the Chesapeake (pictures were great), I contracted the broker and made plans to drive 900+ miles one way from Mississippi....drove all night, arriving early Saturday afternoon. First the broker was unavailable for 2 hours; this allowed my buddy and me to look the boat over very carefully. Now I'm no slouch when it comes to sailboats (worked for a dealer in Houston while going to college in the 70's and have subsequently sailed for 35 years)but this boat was filthy with disconnected electricals, broken blocks and fittings! The exterior was in pitiful condition;it was nothing like the photos. The interior was even worse with rot throughout cabinets and floor. The cushions and all electricals were in shambles not to mention the engine was frozen into one big rust bucket. My buddy and I were ready to hang the broker from the nearest tree by the time he arrived. But he was totally surprised at our upset condition, cautionsly admitting that although there were a few things wrong with the boat it was nothing that couldn't be repaired. What? Repair this garbage bucket? Are you crazy? He was upset that we didn't agree and amazed that we didn't think it was a great buy for money that would buy the same size boat in twenty times the condition. Needless to say we climbed back in the truck and drove 900+ miles back home, learning never to trust another boat salesman.
Could not resist the urge to drop a few lines on this one....2-1/2 years ago I was in the market for a late 70's/early 80's Tartan 37. After finding one on the web on the Chesapeake (pictures were great), I contracted the broker and made plans to drive 900+ miles one way from Mississippi....drove all night, arriving early Saturday afternoon. First the broker was unavailable for 2 hours; this allowed my buddy and me to look the boat over very carefully. Now I'm no slouch when it comes to sailboats (worked for a dealer in Houston while going to college in the 70's and have subsequently sailed for 35 years)but this boat was filthy with disconnected electricals, broken blocks and fittings! The exterior was in pitiful condition;it was nothing like the photos. The interior was even worse with rot throughout cabinets and floor. The cushions and all electricals were in shambles not to mention the engine was frozen into one big rust bucket. My buddy and I were ready to hang the broker from the nearest tree by the time he arrived. But he was totally surprised at our upset condition, cautionsly admitting that although there were a few things wrong with the boat it was nothing that couldn't be repaired. What? Repair this garbage bucket? Are you crazy? He was upset that we didn't agree and amazed that we didn't think it was a great buy for money that would buy the same size boat in twenty times the condition. Needless to say we climbed back in the truck and drove 900+ miles back home, learning never to trust another boat salesman.
Guess i was just lucky
I was living in south texas (Rockport) at the time i was looking for another boat this past winter. I found one on Yachtworld.com. It was over 1200 miles away in Florida. I spoke to the broker and described the boat to me in detail. We drove the 1200 miles, rented a motel room and did all of the normal expenses when traveling.It was exactly as he described it and we purchased the boat. So far , in all the boats that i have looked at, they were all in fairly good condition. On the other hand, i have gone with friends looking at boats and have seen many derilect boats. Could it be.........maybe if you are looking for a good deal on a boat but still in a reasonable price range you will find better boats than if you are looking in the price range of 'the deal of the century'?
I was living in south texas (Rockport) at the time i was looking for another boat this past winter. I found one on Yachtworld.com. It was over 1200 miles away in Florida. I spoke to the broker and described the boat to me in detail. We drove the 1200 miles, rented a motel room and did all of the normal expenses when traveling.It was exactly as he described it and we purchased the boat. So far , in all the boats that i have looked at, they were all in fairly good condition. On the other hand, i have gone with friends looking at boats and have seen many derilect boats. Could it be.........maybe if you are looking for a good deal on a boat but still in a reasonable price range you will find better boats than if you are looking in the price range of 'the deal of the century'?
menestheus
What am I looking for: 27 - 30 ft head w/shower wheel steering roller fuerler jib 6' head room (wife is 6'1") I am not looking for the deal of the century. I do have a budget. I know I could spend more and buy more, but I also know for my budget I should not have to settle for wood rot in floors, walls, and trim, 1+ inch of mold on cushions, filth and garbage inside. I was just disappointed that a boat would be shown in such condition. On the flip side, it does let me know how the boat was maintained. If it is in that shape to sale.....it has been in that shape. Thanks RG
What am I looking for: 27 - 30 ft head w/shower wheel steering roller fuerler jib 6' head room (wife is 6'1") I am not looking for the deal of the century. I do have a budget. I know I could spend more and buy more, but I also know for my budget I should not have to settle for wood rot in floors, walls, and trim, 1+ inch of mold on cushions, filth and garbage inside. I was just disappointed that a boat would be shown in such condition. On the flip side, it does let me know how the boat was maintained. If it is in that shape to sale.....it has been in that shape. Thanks RG
We looked
at a boat several years ago that had been in the marina's barn for over 2 years. The day we went in, it was over 90 in the barn, more in the boat, which hadn't been opened since it was hauled out. When we opened the companionway, we were almost knocked over by the stench! There was still food(?) in the ice box!! Granted, it didn't look much like food....it had taken on a life of its own. There were open containers of bread, crackers, chips....you name it...still in the storage lockers. Even though the boat had been hauled over 2 years ago, there was still about 6in of some kind of slop in the bilge. I asked the salesman just what he thought he was doing even listing something like this for sale, let alone being stupid enough to show it. His reply.....it was the owner's job, but the owner just walked away and left it, and the yard took it for fees owed. Eventually, someone with a stronger stomach than I have bought it, cleaned it up and launched it....whereupon it immediatly sank in the slings...all the hoses were rotten and blew apart from the pressure of sittint in the water!
at a boat several years ago that had been in the marina's barn for over 2 years. The day we went in, it was over 90 in the barn, more in the boat, which hadn't been opened since it was hauled out. When we opened the companionway, we were almost knocked over by the stench! There was still food(?) in the ice box!! Granted, it didn't look much like food....it had taken on a life of its own. There were open containers of bread, crackers, chips....you name it...still in the storage lockers. Even though the boat had been hauled over 2 years ago, there was still about 6in of some kind of slop in the bilge. I asked the salesman just what he thought he was doing even listing something like this for sale, let alone being stupid enough to show it. His reply.....it was the owner's job, but the owner just walked away and left it, and the yard took it for fees owed. Eventually, someone with a stronger stomach than I have bought it, cleaned it up and launched it....whereupon it immediatly sank in the slings...all the hoses were rotten and blew apart from the pressure of sittint in the water!
Weird
When I had narrowed down my search to two specific models of boat, I called brokers and asked if they had any listings that I could see. One broker had two of one model to see and one of the other. One of the boats smelled like piss in the cabin (although it was fairly neat); I asked the broker what the deal was, and he said he didn't know but would ask the owner. One of the other boats had an inch of water on the cabin sole, mold on the cushions, etc. The broker just sort of shrugged his shoulders and said that it was the owner's responsibility to keep the boat up. I followed up with the broker who told me that the owner of the smelly boat never returned his calls, but hey, did I want to make an offer? (no). I don't blame the brokers. So long as they don't lie to me, I recognize that their compensation system is working against me, and I work with it. The sale of used boats, especially smaller boats, generates small commissions, which in turn fails to generate motivation in the brokers. Why should the broker take several dirty, messy hours to clean a boat that will generate only a $2000 commission when he can spend his time cultivating a new boat sale that will make him 10x that amount?
When I had narrowed down my search to two specific models of boat, I called brokers and asked if they had any listings that I could see. One broker had two of one model to see and one of the other. One of the boats smelled like piss in the cabin (although it was fairly neat); I asked the broker what the deal was, and he said he didn't know but would ask the owner. One of the other boats had an inch of water on the cabin sole, mold on the cushions, etc. The broker just sort of shrugged his shoulders and said that it was the owner's responsibility to keep the boat up. I followed up with the broker who told me that the owner of the smelly boat never returned his calls, but hey, did I want to make an offer? (no). I don't blame the brokers. So long as they don't lie to me, I recognize that their compensation system is working against me, and I work with it. The sale of used boats, especially smaller boats, generates small commissions, which in turn fails to generate motivation in the brokers. Why should the broker take several dirty, messy hours to clean a boat that will generate only a $2000 commission when he can spend his time cultivating a new boat sale that will make him 10x that amount?
Menestheus email?
Give me a shout on my email. You can reach me at: rgallagher at wisd dot org. Sorry about the complete spelling, but it keeps phishers from stealing the email address. RG The boat suggestions look nice but also look way out of my budget range. Thanks RG
Give me a shout on my email. You can reach me at: rgallagher at wisd dot org. Sorry about the complete spelling, but it keeps phishers from stealing the email address. RG The boat suggestions look nice but also look way out of my budget range. Thanks RG
broker experiences
I bought a 30' boat last summer. Shopped for a few months before purchasing it directly from an owner (from an ad on this site). Talked with several brokers all over the country and in my home area. Drove a few hours away to see a boat. Had some funny experiences. Had a local broker tell me the combination to the lock or where the keys were so I could go look at the boats he had listed; he had no time to go to the lake with me to see them (1.5 hours away). All the boats were in various states of disrepair. I wouldn't have described any of them as clean, tidy, or well maintained. Some had standing water in them, while the broker was telling me the leaks had all been fixed. Had an out of town broker tell me I asked too many questions. I didn't want to go see a boat 8 hours away without knowing a bunch of pre-qualifying details first, but he apparently thought I should just drive the 16 hours round trip and make up my own mind about whether it was a good fit. But the funniest one was when we drove to see a boat about 3 hours from home. We arrived about 30 minutes early and went to the marina bar for a drink while we waited for our appointed time to meet the broker at the boat. Well, the broker was in the bar talking with his buddies. I recognized him from his picture on his website, but of course he had no idea who I was. He was telling them that he had to go meet this prospect in a few minutes. He really didn't want to do it. He'd really rather just stay and drink or head on home. This prospect asked lots of questions and wanted pictures before agreeing to come to see the boat. He didn't know if the prospect was serious or not. He just hoped the prospect showed up for the meeting. It was hilarious. We sat and listened and chuckled for a few minutes. The look on the broker's face when I walked over to him, stuck my hand out to shake his hand, and introduced myself was hilarious
So I have to say that so far I have been generally unimpressed with brokers and their boats.
I bought a 30' boat last summer. Shopped for a few months before purchasing it directly from an owner (from an ad on this site). Talked with several brokers all over the country and in my home area. Drove a few hours away to see a boat. Had some funny experiences. Had a local broker tell me the combination to the lock or where the keys were so I could go look at the boats he had listed; he had no time to go to the lake with me to see them (1.5 hours away). All the boats were in various states of disrepair. I wouldn't have described any of them as clean, tidy, or well maintained. Some had standing water in them, while the broker was telling me the leaks had all been fixed. Had an out of town broker tell me I asked too many questions. I didn't want to go see a boat 8 hours away without knowing a bunch of pre-qualifying details first, but he apparently thought I should just drive the 16 hours round trip and make up my own mind about whether it was a good fit. But the funniest one was when we drove to see a boat about 3 hours from home. We arrived about 30 minutes early and went to the marina bar for a drink while we waited for our appointed time to meet the broker at the boat. Well, the broker was in the bar talking with his buddies. I recognized him from his picture on his website, but of course he had no idea who I was. He was telling them that he had to go meet this prospect in a few minutes. He really didn't want to do it. He'd really rather just stay and drink or head on home. This prospect asked lots of questions and wanted pictures before agreeing to come to see the boat. He didn't know if the prospect was serious or not. He just hoped the prospect showed up for the meeting. It was hilarious. We sat and listened and chuckled for a few minutes. The look on the broker's face when I walked over to him, stuck my hand out to shake his hand, and introduced myself was hilarious
So I have to say that so far I have been generally unimpressed with brokers and their boats.2nd Boat Shopper
I've flirted with buying a new boat myself. Contacts with brokers have been laughable - they don't return phone calls, don't answer email questions fully, etc. When I get serious I will sell the present boat myself and go shopping afterwords. Will make every effort to contact sellers directly. How do these guys make a living? It is beyond me....
I've flirted with buying a new boat myself. Contacts with brokers have been laughable - they don't return phone calls, don't answer email questions fully, etc. When I get serious I will sell the present boat myself and go shopping afterwords. Will make every effort to contact sellers directly. How do these guys make a living? It is beyond me....
Good and bad
RG (and all) I have some good and bad. I will start with the good - the broker we bought our boat from in RI was great. Absolutely great. We ended up buying our first and second boats from him before we moved west (yes, we took the 2nd boat with us too). I still talk to him every now and then. He was a liveaboard (a qualifier for us when dealing with brokers). He was a do-it-yourself kinda guy. I would recommend him proudly to anyone. That said he is the exception and not the rule. Since coming west we have had far too many negative situations to count. From things like "oh if you want it you will make it work" to "they are just blisters and you can handle that can't you." We have met and spoken with a few good ones here but they are quite few and far between. So far our rule has been to deal with 1) liveaboards, 2) are not working on a timeline, and 3) will show us boats on the first round that are not with their brokerage. This seems to rule out 90% of the brokers. I could even say a few names to stay away from, but really I would prefer to say that if anyone in NE area is looking for a boat, let me know and I will give you the name of the broker we liked so much. Good luck. No one knows what you want as well as you do.
RG (and all) I have some good and bad. I will start with the good - the broker we bought our boat from in RI was great. Absolutely great. We ended up buying our first and second boats from him before we moved west (yes, we took the 2nd boat with us too). I still talk to him every now and then. He was a liveaboard (a qualifier for us when dealing with brokers). He was a do-it-yourself kinda guy. I would recommend him proudly to anyone. That said he is the exception and not the rule. Since coming west we have had far too many negative situations to count. From things like "oh if you want it you will make it work" to "they are just blisters and you can handle that can't you." We have met and spoken with a few good ones here but they are quite few and far between. So far our rule has been to deal with 1) liveaboards, 2) are not working on a timeline, and 3) will show us boats on the first round that are not with their brokerage. This seems to rule out 90% of the brokers. I could even say a few names to stay away from, but really I would prefer to say that if anyone in NE area is looking for a boat, let me know and I will give you the name of the broker we liked so much. Good luck. No one knows what you want as well as you do.
A Different Perspective
Twice in the last 10 years I have bought boats that were mechanically excellent, lightly used, and looked terrible. The first was an H34 that was unattractive on the outside, but had been carefully maintained by the PO. He had replaced the center post, installed a PSS shaft seal, and many other little details. He had coated the outside with a poly coat that was peeling, and had not maintained the teak. It took a whole summer to get the deck cleaned up and respectable, but it was well worth the effort. We used the boat for 6 years and the cost for that time was "0". The second was a P42 that had been effectively abandon (owner moved to east coast.) The outside was awful, a real pig. The dock lines were black from mildew, the fenders were black from spider droppings, and the deck was almost black from dirt and spider droppings. The interior was barely used and immaculate. The engine and generator had been marina maintained, and all the systems worked. The boat was nine years old and had 207 hours on the Yanmar, and 55 on the generator. It had been for sale for a year. Beside it was a H41 that was well maintained inside and out and it sold after only a few weeks. It made the P42 look even worse. We drove six hours to western Kentucky, looked at it on Friday, went to our daughter's apartment in Nashville, went back on Sunday morning, and made an offer $20,000 below the asking price. The owners countered with an offer that was within $500 of my "max" so I coughed up the additional $500 and bought it on Tuesday. My point is that there are bargins available if you are willing to look deeper than the dirt on deck and put in some sweat equity. The P42 gets compliments today for how nice it looks and it is now 13 years old.
Twice in the last 10 years I have bought boats that were mechanically excellent, lightly used, and looked terrible. The first was an H34 that was unattractive on the outside, but had been carefully maintained by the PO. He had replaced the center post, installed a PSS shaft seal, and many other little details. He had coated the outside with a poly coat that was peeling, and had not maintained the teak. It took a whole summer to get the deck cleaned up and respectable, but it was well worth the effort. We used the boat for 6 years and the cost for that time was "0". The second was a P42 that had been effectively abandon (owner moved to east coast.) The outside was awful, a real pig. The dock lines were black from mildew, the fenders were black from spider droppings, and the deck was almost black from dirt and spider droppings. The interior was barely used and immaculate. The engine and generator had been marina maintained, and all the systems worked. The boat was nine years old and had 207 hours on the Yanmar, and 55 on the generator. It had been for sale for a year. Beside it was a H41 that was well maintained inside and out and it sold after only a few weeks. It made the P42 look even worse. We drove six hours to western Kentucky, looked at it on Friday, went to our daughter's apartment in Nashville, went back on Sunday morning, and made an offer $20,000 below the asking price. The owners countered with an offer that was within $500 of my "max" so I coughed up the additional $500 and bought it on Tuesday. My point is that there are bargins available if you are willing to look deeper than the dirt on deck and put in some sweat equity. The P42 gets compliments today for how nice it looks and it is now 13 years old.
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