Boat buying question?

[Bad Obsession]

I am considering buying another boat, somewhat... I am thinking of moving up from my Hunter 22. Of course that really brings in a lot of prespective questions and thoughts. If anyone has any opinion on my situation I would be glad to hear it.I looked at a 1985 Catalina 27 this week. It has the universal diesel in it with only 263 hours on it. The boat looked great in the on-line pictures. I was somewhat surprised when I went and saw it for the following reasons:When I checked it out, in person, I immediately noticed that the boat looked good on the outside but the woodwork needed refinishing (no big deal). When I went inside I noticed that the cushions needed replacing (at the least the coverings because they were all torn, except for the V-birth). The diesel looked clean (i.e. there wasn't any oil in the bilge, the hoses weren't worn and cracked or dry rotted, and everything seemed to look descent) but the diesel had leak in the elbow of the exhaust system (which the owner has already been aware of previously and he has yet to fix). The bilge was okay with a little water (which is normal for an inboard) and there wasn't any oil in it. The interior woodwork needed refinishing. The head was pretty new in it but it was a cheaper toilet. The macerator pump looked new also. I also noticed that the stove was a pressurized alcohol stove, which I have heard can be dangerous. The genoa was pretty new (Only 3-4 years old based on what the broker told me) but the main was a bit stretched out (I think it would last a few more cruising seasons). The main cover was horrible. In one of the rear lazzerettes it appeared that varnish had been spilt in it and never cleaned up. The bimini was in okay condition. The broker told me that there are blisters on the hull (somewhere in the area of 20 blisters) and the boat had been 1/2 way through survey and the buyer backed out and bought a different boat. The broker also added that the boat may have suffered, some, from lack of use if anything.I think that I might be able to get this boat for between 10,000 and 12,000. I am really hesitant to get the boat because of all the negative things that I have listed. I know that I could fix most of the damage but the other thing was that I just didn't have that "feeling" about the boat. What do you think?The next part that I started thinking about is trying to consider what I want. Something in the 27-32 foot range with a draft of not much more than 4 feet is prefered. I do like Catalina yachts but I don't have too much brand loyality (I own a Hunter 22). The next part is that I am wondering if I should wait and buy a nicer/newer boat or a boat like I mentioned above. I have a lot of experience doing work on boats and I sort-of enjoy it....but I don't want to overwhelm myself because I just bought my house and I have a lot of work to do on it. The next thought is the expense of owning (i.e. the new boat will cost more in taxes, more when I do transit slipping, hauling, etc.). Then I am considering the idea of financing. It seems that most lenders don't want to lend money on older boats and they don't like the idea of financing around 10,000.I am not in a hurry to get rid of my boat and I enjoy cruising it. More space would be nice as I do go on long cruises (10 days or so) and I single hand a lot. Moving up would be nice for more space, head room, a real marine head (I hate the porti-potty), and other comforts that my wife would enjoy (and I would possibly be able to talk her into sailing more). I could get a cheaper boat now or cruise my boat for one more season and get a nice boat. Then again I could search really hard and get a nice old boat (But financing seems to be a pain in that area).What might taxes be in an area like Westmoreland County on the different boats?Oh well.....Lots of hard decisions to make. Any suggestions or ideas would be welcome!!!!!! Thanks in advance

 

[redfishnc]

Be patient...

It sounds like good money for the 27. Add up the time and money you need to get the boat like you want it and then look at the cost. It is generally cheaper to get the boat you want already fixed up. This is a great time to display patience.good luck in your search..

 

[Clark]

Whew! Lots of things to consider . . .

I think the bottom line question is what is your budget? We are in a situation similar to yours and we have decided that we want to get to be better sailors; not maintenance experts. If this boat does not "feel right" then I'd pass on it; especially since you said your house has needs and comes first. I've looked a lot online too and it seems as though you can buy a 27 for what it would cost you to buy and repair the one you a considering. As for financing; will the bank not rely on a survey? My humble opinion would be to keep yours for one more season while you get your house in shape (that may cost more than you expect) and reward yourself with a nice step up in '07! Good luck to you.

 

[Pat T]

My 2 cents worth.......

I just bought my 3rd Catalina a 1995 36ft. My first was a 1989 25ft and my last boat a 1986 30ft. The 25 had an alcohol stove that was a pain, so much I hardly used it. The 30 had propane stove & oven and I used it all the time. This is the way to go. Make hot water for coffee, soup, pasta, etc. In the oven we cooked lasagna. 263 hours on a 1986 seems very very light - something not right. All 3 of my boats had marine heads. This is an important feature for wives. I can say that cause today is my 21st wedding anniversary. Well got to get back to my bride. Good luck on your next boat.

 

[shorty]

The corrolary to

"if it feels good, do it" is "if it don't feel good, don't do it". In New England anyway, there's lots of boats around.

 

[Don]

engine, hull, rigging??

Sounds like the engine condition, absent your observation that it looks clean, is unknown. A leaking elbow could cause all kinds of latent problems. Lack of use combined with apparent neglect it has suffered make the engine highly suspect to me anyway. Coupled with no inspection of the rigging and obvious problems with the hull make this kind of a no-brainer - am I missing something that would keep you interested?Don

 

[Tim]

Go as big as possible...

Well, I'm on my 2nd boat. I tried a 240 - wife didn't like it because it was too tippy and small inside. Got a fixed keel 25.5 - still too small for the wife to hang out on.If the wife is a big factor, wait and go as big as possible. Women seem to like the comforts. And make sure you consider things like auto pilot. The wife doesn't like me busy all the time while she has to tend to everything else including the kids.If it were me, I'm more partial to the older 29.5 or the 30 88-94. Still can find affordably but offer great cabin and cockpit layouts. Good luck!Just some thoughts.

 

[Doug Burton]

Take your time

Patience is a virtue. The right one will come along and no matter what anyone says about it, you'll know. (and I agree, to a point..bigger is better for a happy family life.) Just don't blow the budget or family life can go down the tube! Wait a year, decent 30'quality boats for 15K are available if you look around. Consider your search a new hobbie.

 

[Bad Obsession]

Thanks everyone

Thank you all. I feel that I am making the right decision. I am speaking with my wife, in the time frame of around a year, doing a home equity loan and I might be able to spend around 40,000 for the boat. I think that this might get me into a mid-90's Catalina 30. We will see. I am going to have to do a lot of research! Like I said....any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[patrick]

Make a lower offer

If your not afraid of putting in the time and effort needed to fix her up. I would much prefer to put in time and effort than get a big mortgage. It also gets you a lot more intimately acquainted with the boat and her systems which is a great education, good experience, and a possible safety advantage.I would make sure the engine runs ok since that is a big ticket item. A rusted out elbow is not big deal unless water is in the engine itself. All of the other items are fixable with relatively minimal expense and some effort.In Washington, the registration fee is determined to a large degree by the original price. If you buy a dirty, neglected boat and fix her up, you can trade her in later on another boat and that advantage is in effect continued with the new one. We probably have saved $500 a year by fixing up a damaged boat.My offhand, never having seen the boat, wild-as*ed guess would be to make an offer of $6000 and be prepared to go (slowly) up to $8000 when the broker squeels. Point out the elbow and the other defects and the seller may just take your offer. It is costing him just to own it. You will win either way it goes. Just remember that you are the buyer and you have the upper hand right now. Remind him that there are lots of boats. Look on eBay and take him some print outs.If you take out a home equity loan, you will have to spend your time earning the money to pay that off and that will keep you from sailing when you could otherwise do so.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

Agree with low ball offer...

Try it, lowball offer and see how the seller resonds. (Ignore the broker, remember his commission is a % of the sales price. Just tell him to put it in writing.) This way, even if you don't get the boat, you'll know you gave it a shot and it wasn't meant to be. No "what-if's" later. If you get it cheap, you can do a little work and even make a few dollars on it. (10k sounds high to me anyway.)My first H31 was in poor shape, seller didn't take my first offer. It sat on the yard for months. After 6 months, he took my even lower offer. Those 6 months saved me almost $8k. Made that and more back when I sold her a few years later.Most boats go for way less than asking, and this one sounds like it has issues. Don't get too emotionally invested and be prepared to just walk away. God knows there are enough Catalinas here on the bay and rivers that you can buy anything in any kind of shape at any price!Same boat might be sitting there this summer and it's more fun to work on them when it's warm anyway.

 

[Bad Obsession]

More thoughts

Hrm.....a low ball offer is interesting...but what about the blistering on the hull? That and the engine is the scariest part. I definately agree, partly in some of the thoughts on fixing a cheaper boat because of taxes and registration but then again.....I would really like to get my hands on a mid-90's Catalina 30. there is a ton of room and they are really seaworthy boats!Oh, the boat has been there since August. It was part-way through survey but the buyer backed out. Broker said that it was because the buyer bought another boat....but why would the buyer let the boat get part-way though survey and cost him money before he backed out?I have the time, experience, and I don't mind fixing up a boat.....but I want it to last.How do you finance a boat for $10000 that is a 1985? I haven't found a loan with a descent interest rate on it yet.I should have never talked negative about that boat to the wife.....I don't know if I can get her to bite on it now and she is for waiting a while....Who knows!

 

[Boris M. Fernandez]

Buy my Sailboat and SAVE $$$

Coast Guard Documented vessel 1977 Catalina 27 set for cruise or leave aboard with the following amenities and equipments: 110 V. outlets and circuit breaker panel with volt meter, 4-110V. outlets in the cabin, 3 Battery bank with Battery Isolator and monitor, single point + - electrical system, 2000 gal. Hr. bilge pump with diverter valve for manual or pump operations, cockpit shower with 2 tanks, Grill/Stove with separate large gas tank in transom locker, 3 sails(2 Mains & Gib), Lazy Jack, Windlass / Ground tackle and 2 Danforth anchors, Bimini & Dodger, new cushions, Atomic 4 gas, drip less shaft, 4 ft. draft, Surveyed before last improvements for $12,000.00, excellent cruising live aboard boat. Boat at Fort Lauderdale, Fl. BAHAMAS CRUISE READY. Sale due to owner's Illness and inability to sail and move to Savannah, GA. Price just reduced to $ 5,500.00 and ready to deal. ! Boat extensive equipment list available upon request to interested parties! If interested please E-mail jade745@aol.com

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

Wow...BO

Buy the one in Ft Laud and I'll bring it up for you in the Spring. Even rent it down there for the next couple of months...As for financing, call Anchor Finance in Deale, Md. They are great and deal with both local and big time lenders. They did my older H31 with Annapolis B&T, no survey and few strings. Used to have a web site, but don't see it now.ANCHOR FINANCE2 Anchor Business CentreDeale Md. 20751 800- 776-0616FAX 410-867-4087

 

[patrick]

Don't be a fence sitter

Make up your mind about what you are willing to pay. Go very conservative if you can stomach that term and make an offer. You can sit around fretting about it and never do anything. You might find out next month that you have terminal cancer (God forbid) and never get to live your dream. If they turn down your offer, keep looking or make another one or buy the older boat that Boris has for sale.If you want to get a really cheap boat, look at auctions. The police in Seattle used to have an auction of abandoned boats every year or so. I saw a 30 foot power boat go for $10 and the guy who bought it had it running inside of a week. It was very dirty and needed new batteries, etc. but my point is that you can find a real deal if you really want to do it.

 

[higgs]

Wait - my opinion

You say you mnay be in a positon to spend 40K in a year. If you buy the 27 you will probably not be able to get into great shape in a year and then you will put it up for sale and getting rid of any boat can easily take a year or more. Do you want to own two boat?