I need advice on buying a boat. Here are my conditions: 1. It will be used on a 10 mile long lake as well as the hudson river and possible the great lakes. 2. It must hold up to 6 people in comfort in the cockpit. 3. It must be easy to trailer with a pickup truck. 4. It must be easy to sail for relatively inexperienced sailors. If anyone can suggest the best boat that fulfills these requirments i would be very appreciative
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SIX people?!
Are you planning on having six people aboard every time you take it out or just every once in a while? That makes a big difference cuz if so, you're probably gonna have to look at small boats with no cabins. And I suppose it also depends on what you mean by "comfort". If you were talking more like 2-4 people regularly and occasionally 6, then something along the lines of a Catalina 25 would be a nice choice cuz then you could overnight on it (not with 6!). LaDonna
Are you planning on having six people aboard every time you take it out or just every once in a while? That makes a big difference cuz if so, you're probably gonna have to look at small boats with no cabins. And I suppose it also depends on what you mean by "comfort". If you were talking more like 2-4 people regularly and occasionally 6, then something along the lines of a Catalina 25 would be a nice choice cuz then you could overnight on it (not with 6!). LaDonna
San Juan
I agree w LaDonna six people is a lot. Remember that 3 of them have to be comfortable sitting on the leeward side. Not too many passengers like to sit on the low side especially with new skippers. My recommendation would be a San Juan 21. It has a 9ft cockpit and a cabin with 4 berths. It has a retractable keel and the mast can be stepped in about 10 minutes. They can be had for $2000-$4000 with trailer. Check out the link below As far as being easy to sail, no one should be beginning in a boat of this size. Start with at least a season of dinghy sailing. Something like a sunfish or laser then move up to the larger boat. There are way too many inexperienced sailors out there. Not as bad as power boats though. My .02 Tim Portland, Maine
I agree w LaDonna six people is a lot. Remember that 3 of them have to be comfortable sitting on the leeward side. Not too many passengers like to sit on the low side especially with new skippers. My recommendation would be a San Juan 21. It has a 9ft cockpit and a cabin with 4 berths. It has a retractable keel and the mast can be stepped in about 10 minutes. They can be had for $2000-$4000 with trailer. Check out the link below As far as being easy to sail, no one should be beginning in a boat of this size. Start with at least a season of dinghy sailing. Something like a sunfish or laser then move up to the larger boat. There are way too many inexperienced sailors out there. Not as bad as power boats though. My .02 Tim Portland, Maine
Mine Does all That
Six adults in the cockpit of my Hunter 23.5 was a little tight but not uncomfortable. After I added the stern rail seats it is no problem at all.
Six adults in the cockpit of my Hunter 23.5 was a little tight but not uncomfortable. After I added the stern rail seats it is no problem at all.
Thats a lot of people to fit in a trailerable
I don't know of a single trailerable boat where the cockpit is big enough to fit six comfortably. You can fit six adults in the cockpit of my Oday 23 without squishing each other, but it really makes it difficult to handle the jib sheets or get around. I wouldn't call it ideal. Not only that, I wouldn't exactly say that the 23 trailers easily. The Rainbow 24 has an enormous cockpit, big enough to fit 6 to 8 adults comfortably, but almost no cabin. However, it has a fixed fin keel and I don't think its towable. Other than the Rainbow, I don't think I've been in a boat under 30' that could fit six people. Like LaDonna says, if you won't be taking out six regularly, you have more choices. Check out the Hunter line of water-ballast daysailers. Maybe one of them has a large enough cockpit for your needs.
I don't know of a single trailerable boat where the cockpit is big enough to fit six comfortably. You can fit six adults in the cockpit of my Oday 23 without squishing each other, but it really makes it difficult to handle the jib sheets or get around. I wouldn't call it ideal. Not only that, I wouldn't exactly say that the 23 trailers easily. The Rainbow 24 has an enormous cockpit, big enough to fit 6 to 8 adults comfortably, but almost no cabin. However, it has a fixed fin keel and I don't think its towable. Other than the Rainbow, I don't think I've been in a boat under 30' that could fit six people. Like LaDonna says, if you won't be taking out six regularly, you have more choices. Check out the Hunter line of water-ballast daysailers. Maybe one of them has a large enough cockpit for your needs.
With 6 you get eggroll
Hi John, Easy to trailer with a pickup. Rated for 6 adults. Easy to sail. Big kicker when you need MORE POWER. Do a little exploring on the related link... Happy sails _/), MArk
Hi John, Easy to trailer with a pickup. Rated for 6 adults. Easy to sail. Big kicker when you need MORE POWER. Do a little exploring on the related link... Happy sails _/), MArk
Colgate 26
This boat is used by Offshore Sailing School (try the link below) as a trainer. It has a cockpit which would easily hold 6 adults but, as you might expect, no real cabin space to speak of. The boat is available with a trailer but I don't know what the trailering characteristics are like.
This boat is used by Offshore Sailing School (try the link below) as a trainer. It has a cockpit which would easily hold 6 adults but, as you might expect, no real cabin space to speak of. The boat is available with a trailer but I don't know what the trailering characteristics are like.
Sounds like a catboat to me.
We take six people in a Mac-22 all the time, the point being they don't all need to sit in the same place. Kids like to be on deck, and conversations often gravitate to the cabin. Even in large boats, you typically see people on the rail, etc. In a small trairable, thats a lot of weight in the back seat! What if its raining or blowing and five people want to take the party below? What if you like exploring and want to extend your range? Given the areas you've mentioned, you may want a good daysailer that isn't too extreme, i.e no open boats without amenities, cruisers crowded with creature comforts, etc. This isn't a Mac recommendation, just my experience that given a reasonable size and design, space works itself out and people don't stay put. But if I had to pick a boat that fit your description exactly, I would choose that small catboat sitting on a trailer at the Annapolis boat show every year. Max cockpit, cute cabin, a broad boat renowned for comfort, trailerable, stable and solid, simplest of all to rig and sail, and appropriate to the Northeast waters.
We take six people in a Mac-22 all the time, the point being they don't all need to sit in the same place. Kids like to be on deck, and conversations often gravitate to the cabin. Even in large boats, you typically see people on the rail, etc. In a small trairable, thats a lot of weight in the back seat! What if its raining or blowing and five people want to take the party below? What if you like exploring and want to extend your range? Given the areas you've mentioned, you may want a good daysailer that isn't too extreme, i.e no open boats without amenities, cruisers crowded with creature comforts, etc. This isn't a Mac recommendation, just my experience that given a reasonable size and design, space works itself out and people don't stay put. But if I had to pick a boat that fit your description exactly, I would choose that small catboat sitting on a trailer at the Annapolis boat show every year. Max cockpit, cute cabin, a broad boat renowned for comfort, trailerable, stable and solid, simplest of all to rig and sail, and appropriate to the Northeast waters.
Fying Scot
This is a GREAT little boat. Only 19 ft long but the cockpit easily holds six adults with plenty of room left over for a couple days' worth of food and drink. Of course, there's no cabin. The Flying Scot displaces about 1200 lb and draws only eight inches with the keel up, so it's easy to trailer. It's very stable and forgiving for beginners and singlehanded sailors, but in the hands of an experienced crew...watch out! The boat has tremendous performance potential, goes well to weather and will plane like her little sister, the Thistle. There are many websites dedicated to the Flying Scot, including www.flyingscot.com and www.fssa.com. Enjoy. Peter H23 "Raven"
This is a GREAT little boat. Only 19 ft long but the cockpit easily holds six adults with plenty of room left over for a couple days' worth of food and drink. Of course, there's no cabin. The Flying Scot displaces about 1200 lb and draws only eight inches with the keel up, so it's easy to trailer. It's very stable and forgiving for beginners and singlehanded sailors, but in the hands of an experienced crew...watch out! The boat has tremendous performance potential, goes well to weather and will plane like her little sister, the Thistle. There are many websites dedicated to the Flying Scot, including www.flyingscot.com and www.fssa.com. Enjoy. Peter H23 "Raven"
San Jaun and guess what
I have one I might sell you. You can beat the boat. It is just what you were asking for. I have had this boat since it was new and its in great shape. I hate to sell it but I have 3 sailboats right now. Let me know, I hate to keep it (yea right)! PS: This boat is perfect for beginners, but get a sailing lession first! 21 feet is a small day sailor.
I have one I might sell you. You can beat the boat. It is just what you were asking for. I have had this boat since it was new and its in great shape. I hate to sell it but I have 3 sailboats right now. Let me know, I hate to keep it (yea right)! PS: This boat is perfect for beginners, but get a sailing lession first! 21 feet is a small day sailor.
A Cat Boat would work.
I agree with John, based on your four conditions, a cat boat would suit your needs. A sloop rigged trailer sailboat would be hard to sail with 6 people crammed in the aft cockpit. It would be hard to get to the jib sheet when tacking or jibing. For a sloop rigged trailer sailboat with minimum ballast with a swing keel or centerboard, passenger weight distribution is critical. With 6 people crammed in the cockpit and unable to move windward, your sloop rigged sailboat would be greatly affected by the passenger weight. You could get a sloop rigged trailer sailboat, but not all of your passengers should sit in the cockpit at the same time. You must maintain the sailboat's balance by distributing the passenger's weight in the boat when sailing. A Cat Boat has a wider beam and larger cockpit than a comparable sloop rigged sailboat with the same "Length Over All" (LOA). A cat boat can't point as well up wind as a sloop rigged sailboat, but it also doesn't heel as much and therefore is generally less tender than a sloop rigged sailboat. Since a Cat Boat has only a single mainsail, it can be easily sailed single handed. As the saying goes "Anyone can sail a Cat Boat, but very few sailors can sail it well". A Nimble Mud Hen, Compac SunCat Daysailor, Marshall Sanderling, or Menger Cat are some cat boats that are made in the USA. Fair Winds. Clyde
I agree with John, based on your four conditions, a cat boat would suit your needs. A sloop rigged trailer sailboat would be hard to sail with 6 people crammed in the aft cockpit. It would be hard to get to the jib sheet when tacking or jibing. For a sloop rigged trailer sailboat with minimum ballast with a swing keel or centerboard, passenger weight distribution is critical. With 6 people crammed in the cockpit and unable to move windward, your sloop rigged sailboat would be greatly affected by the passenger weight. You could get a sloop rigged trailer sailboat, but not all of your passengers should sit in the cockpit at the same time. You must maintain the sailboat's balance by distributing the passenger's weight in the boat when sailing. A Cat Boat has a wider beam and larger cockpit than a comparable sloop rigged sailboat with the same "Length Over All" (LOA). A cat boat can't point as well up wind as a sloop rigged sailboat, but it also doesn't heel as much and therefore is generally less tender than a sloop rigged sailboat. Since a Cat Boat has only a single mainsail, it can be easily sailed single handed. As the saying goes "Anyone can sail a Cat Boat, but very few sailors can sail it well". A Nimble Mud Hen, Compac SunCat Daysailor, Marshall Sanderling, or Menger Cat are some cat boats that are made in the USA. Fair Winds. Clyde
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Look at a Rhodes 19
You don't mention anything about cabin requirements. A lot of day sailors do well for what you want. Rhodes 19s are pretty popular, have large cockpits, can be trailered by a large sedan, and are easy to sail. For beauty, can't beat a Herreshoff (sp?) Buzzards Bay 14 or Bullseye. O'Day 222 or a newer Hunter 24 or Catalina 250 would work as well. Enjoy. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
You don't mention anything about cabin requirements. A lot of day sailors do well for what you want. Rhodes 19s are pretty popular, have large cockpits, can be trailered by a large sedan, and are easy to sail. For beauty, can't beat a Herreshoff (sp?) Buzzards Bay 14 or Bullseye. O'Day 222 or a newer Hunter 24 or Catalina 250 would work as well. Enjoy. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
Good Advice..
I raced Flying Scots as a kid/teenager - they are very nice open daysailors. They are quick to plane and very popular. If you ever get the desire you can also probably find somewhere near you to race yours. At our club, the scots would be the smallest thing that we raced during small-craft warning days, always on the outer harbour and with extra crew. Man they would fly! Cat-boats, by their very nature, are also exactly what you are looking for. Though in both boats, someone (many someones) will inevitably be asked to sit on the lower rail, this can be upsetting and uncomfortable to some. Also, remember, that 6 grown ups is a fair amount of weight for any small boat. (3 men - avg. weight 150 each = 450 and 3 women at 120 per = 360 for a total of 810 pounds, add a cooler, anchor, outboard and other misc gear. let's say 300 pounds, and your dragging/plowing about 1100 pounds around through the water. I think a planing hull like a Scot might go faster, but I don't know if either will sail the way you want them too. And they will be crowded. In our O'Day 25, we find that 3 or 4 adults is close in the cockpit under sail etc. Often I will retreat into the companionway to ease the space crunch. Also, don't forget the tiller - with that many folks aboard everyone becomes a helmsperson at some point. Oh yeah, another idea just came to mind, if you are looking for something that will fit your criteria, except for the 6 people always on board, you might want to look into a West Wight Potter - I've looked at these a couple of times and they look and sound interesting. Geof s/v Day-O
I raced Flying Scots as a kid/teenager - they are very nice open daysailors. They are quick to plane and very popular. If you ever get the desire you can also probably find somewhere near you to race yours. At our club, the scots would be the smallest thing that we raced during small-craft warning days, always on the outer harbour and with extra crew. Man they would fly! Cat-boats, by their very nature, are also exactly what you are looking for. Though in both boats, someone (many someones) will inevitably be asked to sit on the lower rail, this can be upsetting and uncomfortable to some. Also, remember, that 6 grown ups is a fair amount of weight for any small boat. (3 men - avg. weight 150 each = 450 and 3 women at 120 per = 360 for a total of 810 pounds, add a cooler, anchor, outboard and other misc gear. let's say 300 pounds, and your dragging/plowing about 1100 pounds around through the water. I think a planing hull like a Scot might go faster, but I don't know if either will sail the way you want them too. And they will be crowded. In our O'Day 25, we find that 3 or 4 adults is close in the cockpit under sail etc. Often I will retreat into the companionway to ease the space crunch. Also, don't forget the tiller - with that many folks aboard everyone becomes a helmsperson at some point. Oh yeah, another idea just came to mind, if you are looking for something that will fit your criteria, except for the 6 people always on board, you might want to look into a West Wight Potter - I've looked at these a couple of times and they look and sound interesting. Geof s/v Day-O
thanks
Thank you for the good advice. To clarifiy, six people in the cockpit at once does not make much sense as many have pointed out. Rather, I would need a boat that could haul a reasonable group of people around who would be dispersed throughout the boat.
Thank you for the good advice. To clarifiy, six people in the cockpit at once does not make much sense as many have pointed out. Rather, I would need a boat that could haul a reasonable group of people around who would be dispersed throughout the boat.
Consider the water ballasted trailerables
Hunter 240 or 260, similar Catalinas, or _sailing_ versions of the MacGregor 26. They are designed to give you daysailing for 6 and cruising for 2 (or 4 "close" friends/family) in a boat you can trailer with a reasonable pick-up. David
Hunter 240 or 260, similar Catalinas, or _sailing_ versions of the MacGregor 26. They are designed to give you daysailing for 6 and cruising for 2 (or 4 "close" friends/family) in a boat you can trailer with a reasonable pick-up. David
Six people will fit in comfort in the cockpit
of an San Jaun 21. It is the only boat in that size range I know of. I hope your not one of the cheapos that wants to get a boat for a couple of hundred bucks! SJ-21 is the boat for you! Perfect for river sailing!
of an San Jaun 21. It is the only boat in that size range I know of. I hope your not one of the cheapos that wants to get a boat for a couple of hundred bucks! SJ-21 is the boat for you! Perfect for river sailing!
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