We are looking at purchasing a used boat in the BVI's. Once we have the survey done and reach an agreeable price what else needs to take place and in what order? For example, I'm American, my wife is Dutch. For registration and for insurance purposes, is there a preference to where the boat is registered? I'm sure the broker we are using will help with these things but I'd like to know independently what all is involved and what to be aware of beforehand. Would appreciate "now that you have reached an agreeable price, what to do next?.." boat buying for dummies-type of advice, especially anything that suprised other first-time boat buyers. Thanks and Happy Holidays, Tracy (tracyarianne@yahoo.com)
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Questions
Need more information, specifically where do you intend to home base the boat you buy? I would think this would help to determine where you register. For instance does the boat have leave the country periodicaly to maintain visitor status? ALso, I would look at taxes on the boat, sales and ongoing. A US documented boat does not have an annual registration fee and local taxes vary by state. Dependent on the state there may not be any at all. This is much different than EU as I understand it. Sounds as though you are considering buying a charter boat which is a whole different can of worms. There are reasons why they are so much cheaper. I would also be real concerned about who I get to survey the boat. Make sure he/she is working for you and not suggested by the broker. Sometimes relationships get a little close at such small land facilities if you know what I mean. Dependent on cost, I would even consider bringing my own surveyor from outside the area unless you are fairly knowledgeable about sail craft. I am sure thatothers will have even better recommendations. Hope it works out for you.
Need more information, specifically where do you intend to home base the boat you buy? I would think this would help to determine where you register. For instance does the boat have leave the country periodicaly to maintain visitor status? ALso, I would look at taxes on the boat, sales and ongoing. A US documented boat does not have an annual registration fee and local taxes vary by state. Dependent on the state there may not be any at all. This is much different than EU as I understand it. Sounds as though you are considering buying a charter boat which is a whole different can of worms. There are reasons why they are so much cheaper. I would also be real concerned about who I get to survey the boat. Make sure he/she is working for you and not suggested by the broker. Sometimes relationships get a little close at such small land facilities if you know what I mean. Dependent on cost, I would even consider bringing my own surveyor from outside the area unless you are fairly knowledgeable about sail craft. I am sure thatothers will have even better recommendations. Hope it works out for you.
Non Citizens and Boat Ownership
Hopefully this isn't a surprise but it's my understanding that a non-citizen cannot own a US registered boat. At least this was true 13 years ago and probably still is.
Hopefully this isn't a surprise but it's my understanding that a non-citizen cannot own a US registered boat. At least this was true 13 years ago and probably still is.
Not quite, John
Only US citizens may federally document a boat. State registration is just the marine equivilant of a car's license plate, and is required of all boat, regardless of the owner's nationality. Boats which are federally documented aren't exempt from registration in most states...they're only exempt from displaying state registration numbers.
Only US citizens may federally document a boat. State registration is just the marine equivilant of a car's license plate, and is required of all boat, regardless of the owner's nationality. Boats which are federally documented aren't exempt from registration in most states...they're only exempt from displaying state registration numbers.
Reply to Jack
Thanks for the thought provokers, will be checking into the EU regulations. It doesn't sound like there are drawbacks to registering in the US if we are going to not be in other countries waters for extended periods. But will check it out. Concerning surveyors, if I can't afford or don't know anyone outside the local community, I take it would be good to ask for referrals? That's not foolproof either, granted...but what else can you do? You sound like you know about chartered boats, would you or anyone else mind sharing their opinions about the pitfalls one is likely to encounter buying a charter boat, nothing "done" yet in our quest and would appreciate the insights before we make a huge blunder. Tracy
Thanks for the thought provokers, will be checking into the EU regulations. It doesn't sound like there are drawbacks to registering in the US if we are going to not be in other countries waters for extended periods. But will check it out. Concerning surveyors, if I can't afford or don't know anyone outside the local community, I take it would be good to ask for referrals? That's not foolproof either, granted...but what else can you do? You sound like you know about chartered boats, would you or anyone else mind sharing their opinions about the pitfalls one is likely to encounter buying a charter boat, nothing "done" yet in our quest and would appreciate the insights before we make a huge blunder. Tracy
Would you buy a six year old rental car?
Charter boats have been used by highly experienced, careful crews as well as clueless hacks that don't know a sheet from a shroud. If I were you, I'd make sure I was present at any survey. Educate yourself beforehand -- there are some good books about marine surveys available. Pay particular attention to the condition of the hull, rudder, prop
Charter boats have been used by highly experienced, careful crews as well as clueless hacks that don't know a sheet from a shroud. If I were you, I'd make sure I was present at any survey. Educate yourself beforehand -- there are some good books about marine surveys available. Pay particular attention to the condition of the hull, rudder, prop
Documented Boats in MS
Documented vessels in Mississippi are not required to be registered in the state, just a little trivia.
Documented vessels in Mississippi are not required to be registered in the state, just a little trivia.
nor in California.
Documented vessels in California are not required to be registered in the state, just a little more trivia.
Documented vessels in California are not required to be registered in the state, just a little more trivia.
Surveyors
Check on the internet for listings by the National Association Of Marine Surveyors or SAMS. These are both organizations which accredit marine surveyors. I would also look for references. No doubt you will need a survey for a loan or insurance so do it prior to the purchase. A survey usually pays for itself through a reduction in price to have shortcomings repaired. That could be any thing from blister repair, plumbing, electrical, engine work , standing or running rigging, and sails. If the seller balks, then you know the boat is in need of work and /or overpriced. In that case,I would stop negotiations immediatly. Make sure that any purchase is contingent upon repairs being made. I would also put any monies in an escrow account so you don't have wrangle with the seller to get ernest money back. Just good business.
Check on the internet for listings by the National Association Of Marine Surveyors or SAMS. These are both organizations which accredit marine surveyors. I would also look for references. No doubt you will need a survey for a loan or insurance so do it prior to the purchase. A survey usually pays for itself through a reduction in price to have shortcomings repaired. That could be any thing from blister repair, plumbing, electrical, engine work , standing or running rigging, and sails. If the seller balks, then you know the boat is in need of work and /or overpriced. In that case,I would stop negotiations immediatly. Make sure that any purchase is contingent upon repairs being made. I would also put any monies in an escrow account so you don't have wrangle with the seller to get ernest money back. Just good business.
Try Boat/US Insurance Dept.
If you are a member of Boat/US, give them a call. I'm sure that they have the people that will give you the answers that you need. If you are paying for membership, get your money's worth from people who, most likely, have been through it all.
If you are a member of Boat/US, give them a call. I'm sure that they have the people that will give you the answers that you need. If you are paying for membership, get your money's worth from people who, most likely, have been through it all.
Documentation a Must
I'm sure if the boat is in the BVI it is most certainly already documented. I recommend you contacting one of the Marine Documentation Companies, like Guardian to assist in transferring paperwork. These companies can be a great help if you've never documented a boat before. Assuming the survey goes well, and that's a big assumption on a used Charter Boat in the BVI, you want to assure you have a clear ownership to the boat. If the boat is already documented in the USA, only liens placed on the boat through the Coast Guard are recognized by the Federal Courts. Mechanics liens placed on unpayed work performed on a boat is not unusual. Do you plan on leaving the boat in the BVI or relocating elsewhere else?
I'm sure if the boat is in the BVI it is most certainly already documented. I recommend you contacting one of the Marine Documentation Companies, like Guardian to assist in transferring paperwork. These companies can be a great help if you've never documented a boat before. Assuming the survey goes well, and that's a big assumption on a used Charter Boat in the BVI, you want to assure you have a clear ownership to the boat. If the boat is already documented in the USA, only liens placed on the boat through the Coast Guard are recognized by the Federal Courts. Mechanics liens placed on unpayed work performed on a boat is not unusual. Do you plan on leaving the boat in the BVI or relocating elsewhere else?
Reply to Dick
Today I sent an email off to the broker asking them what all is necessary closing procedure after we settle on a price...I am thankful for all the info I've collected beforehand from everyone here in the Forum. The broker tells me that it is currently registered in the US so since I am a US citizen, it should be straight forward. We are going to be living aboard for the season down in the Caribbean and then we are not sure, probably not in the BVI's as that is hurrican alley from what I can gather. The broker has said all along that a survey should be done to insure we know what we are getting and to enable them to approach the seller with a survey in hand to help get us to an agreeable price. I'll get on the Guardian lead and see what I can find out from them about how they can help us. Does anyone have a good lead on which marine insurance companies are good to deal with? Thanks again, Tracy
Today I sent an email off to the broker asking them what all is necessary closing procedure after we settle on a price...I am thankful for all the info I've collected beforehand from everyone here in the Forum. The broker tells me that it is currently registered in the US so since I am a US citizen, it should be straight forward. We are going to be living aboard for the season down in the Caribbean and then we are not sure, probably not in the BVI's as that is hurrican alley from what I can gather. The broker has said all along that a survey should be done to insure we know what we are getting and to enable them to approach the seller with a survey in hand to help get us to an agreeable price. I'll get on the Guardian lead and see what I can find out from them about how they can help us. Does anyone have a good lead on which marine insurance companies are good to deal with? Thanks again, Tracy
Documentation
There is a special form for bills of sale for documented vessels. Have a look at the Coastguard's Vessel Documentation page at http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/nvdc.htm I notice your broker said "registered" in the US. Better check that this actually means documented. If the current owner bought the boat new he should have the "Builder's Certificate." Make sure you get that too.
There is a special form for bills of sale for documented vessels. Have a look at the Coastguard's Vessel Documentation page at http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/nvdc.htm I notice your broker said "registered" in the US. Better check that this actually means documented. If the current owner bought the boat new he should have the "Builder's Certificate." Make sure you get that too.
tedsailingpage
http://sites.netscape.net/tedsailingpage/home.html This page is pretty helpful. It goes through the thought prosess of deciding on a boat and has some good maintenance tips.
http://sites.netscape.net/tedsailingpage/home.html This page is pretty helpful. It goes through the thought prosess of deciding on a boat and has some good maintenance tips.
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