Boat Bike "tech support"

[John Nantz]

My Boat Bike has served well for small trips on shore but it has some issues that come up from time to time that I'd like to take care off. Being a sailboater we naturally tend to be hands-on and self-sufficient. While I've taken care of maintenance and adjustment issues over the years on this bike, I'm starting to get into some "upgrades" that I'd like to do and would like to find a good web site forum for posting questions, and perhaps another web site for buying parts; could be the same web site.

Two examples:

1. Current upgrade is to replace the shifter cables as the current ones have no-doubt stretched and maintaining the derailleur adjustment has become more frequent. Derailleur adjustment is a bit of a pain because it is time consuming and somewhat "picky",

2. One concern I've got is about the Bottom Bracket and the crank. It seems as if one of the peddles is further out than it should be. This is something that's beyond my expertise and I'd like to ask a question about it on a bike forum to find out if it is a concern or not.

Even though the bike is classified as a "mountain bike", it is not used for that. It fits below deck in the lazarette, has quick-release wheels, and can be easily stowed below. Used mostly for things like grocery runs and the like, sight-seeing, and general purpose transportation so a forum that would be okay with posts about this kind where I won't get skewered (some forums are like that if it isn't a "pro" something) is what I'm hoping to find.

Any suggestions are welcome.
For info: The bike is a Raleigh SC40 "sport comfort" bike, aluminum frame. By the way, a very handy boat bike.

 

[dlochner]

The cables should be pretty standard. You'll probably need the length of the cable and the type of cable end that goes into the shifter. Then it is simply a matter of running the cables and adjusting them as they stretch. Any good bike shop should have the cables.

When you say the pedals are out further than they should be, are you referring to the pedal itself or the arm the pedal screws into? Are you measuring from the frame?

 

[jviss]

1. Current upgrade is to replace the shifter cables as the current ones have no-doubt stretched and maintaining the derailleur adjustment has become more frequent.

I make my own bike cables. Have invested in a couple of simple yet durable tools for this. Buy the cable in bulk, use the existing housings unless they are damaged.

 

[Benny17441]

My concept of a utility bike is simplicity, I would look for a single gear combination, low enough to be able to pedal up a moderate incline while carrying a load, but not so low that it would require an uncomfortably high pedaling cadence on flat terrain. I would do away with (remove) the derailleurs front and back, cables and shifters and using the middle front chainwheel pick a gear in the rear cog and cut a new chain to fit that combination. Less stuff, less maintenance. Regarding the pedals, is it a feel or a look? Manufacturers use the same bottom brackets and adapt them to different frames. If it is not bothersome when pedaling I would not give it a second thought. That is a nice bike and it will be suitable to convert into a good utility cycle.

 

[jssailem]

Such bikes are great in the flat lands.

When you gunkhole in areas that have hills then the good choice is an electric bike.
Better yet a foldable electric bike.

 

[jviss]

Such bikes are great in the flat lands.

When you gunkhole in areas that have hills then the good choice is an electric bike.
Better yet a foldable electric bike.

View attachment 203493

Cool. What does it weigh? They don't say on their website.

 

[Tedd]

Hi @John Nantz ,

I'm not a bike mechanic but I commuted to work by bike for many years and have tens of thousands of kilometers on my bike, so I've done pretty much every maintenance task many times over.

Regarding the cables, as others have mentioned they're an off the shelf item from your local bike shop and are cheap and easy to replace, so it's something worth doing regularly. The only tricky parts are connecting the barrel at the handlebar end of the cable to the shift lever and, as you said, adjusting the cable. If you catch the bike shop at a slow moment they will very likely be happy to show you the basics of both. You shouldn't have to adjust the stops on the derailleur, only the position of the clamp on the cable. I also use cable lube. I don't know if there is special cable lube for bikes. I own motorcycles so I use the same lube on my bicycles as I use on the motorcycles--never had a problem. I have a doohickey that makes it easier to squirt the lube into the cable sheath. I got mine at a motorcycle shop but your bike shop might also carry them.

You didn't mention the brake cables but they are, of course, even more important to maintain than the shifter cables. The method is basically the same, but adjustment is different. It's been 30 years or more since I adjusted rim-style calipers like yours so I've forgotten the method I used. The only part I remember is that I used old credit cards as shims, to set the clearance between the pad and the rim.

Regarding the cranks, if there's no axial, radial, or circumferential lash and no rubbing, then there's probably nothing to worry about. It would be difficult for the crank to move axially (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "further out") without having noticeable looseness. Has it actually changed, or did you only just now notice that it looks odd? It might just be how the hub is designed. Dismantling the hub usually requires a special socket and, if the bike is older, very likely an impact wrench, as well. I have all that stuff so I do it on my bikes, but it's not something that has to be done very often, so it might be a sensible task to farm out to a bike shop. But, as I say, if there's no rubbing or looseness there's probably nothing to worry about. The crank mechanism is very robust. It's the one item on my commuter bike that has never been serviced, even after over 30,000 km of riding.

[Since this is a sailing forum I guess I should mention that 30,000 km is 16,200 nm. ]

 

[jviss]

Hi @John Nantz ,

I'm not a bike mechanic but I commuted to work by bike for many years and have tens of thousands of kilometers on my bike, so I've done pretty much every maintenance task many times over.

Regarding the cables, as others have mentioned they're an off the shelf item from your local bike shop and are cheap and easy to replace, so it's something worth doing regularly. The only tricky parts are connecting the barrel at the handlebar end of the cable to the shift lever and, as you said, adjusting the cable. If you catch the bike shop at a slow moment they will very likely be happy to show you the basics of both. You shouldn't have to adjust the stops on the derailleur, only the position of the clamp on the cable. I also use cable lube. I don't know if there is special cable lube for bikes. I own motorcycles so I use the same lube on my bicycles as I use on the motorcycles--never had a problem. I have a doohickey that makes it easier to squirt the lube into the cable sheath. I got mine at a motorcycle shop but your bike shop might also carry them.

You didn't mention the brake cables but they are, of course, even more important to maintain than the shifter cables. The method is basically the same, but adjustment is different. It's been 30 years or more since I adjusted rim-style calipers like yours so I've forgotten the method I used. The only part I remember is that I used old credit cards as shims, to set the clearance between the pad and the rim.

Regarding the cranks, if there's no axial, radial, or circumferential lash and no rubbing, then there's probably nothing to worry about. It would be difficult for the crank to move axially (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "further out") without having noticeable looseness. Has it actually changed, or did you only just now notice that it looks odd? It might just be how the hub is designed. Dismantling the hub usually requires a special socket and, if the bike is older, very likely an impact wrench, as well. I have all that stuff so I do it on my bikes, but it's not something that has to be done very often, so it might be a sensible task to farm out to a bike shop. But, as I say, if there's no rubbing or looseness there's probably nothing to worry about. The crank mechanism is very robust. It's the one item on my commuter bike that has never been serviced, even after over 30,000 km of riding.

Excellent post!

 

[dlochner]

You didn't mention the brake cables but they are, of course, even more important to maintain than the shifter cables. The method is basically the same, but adjustment is different. It's been 30 years or more since I adjusted rim-style calipers like yours so I've forgotten the method I used. The only part I remember is that I used old credit cards as shims, to set the clearance between the pad and the rim

There is a special tool called a third hand, essentially a clamp that holds the break pads against the rim. Set the adjusting barrel to mid range and attach the new cable. Release the third hand and then adjust the clearance with the adjusting barrel. If the wheel is true, then the shoes can be close to the rim. The back ends of the pads should touch the rim first by a mm or two.

 

[Tedd]

The back ends of the pads should touch the rim first by a mm or two.

Yes! I forgot to mention that. Using the shim technique, I used two or three shims at the leading edge of the pad and one shim at the trailing edge. The angle of the pad helps prevent "chattering."

 

[John Nantz]

Thanks for the reply, Dave.

The cables should be pretty standard. ....

It's likely that the cables are ~standard, especially for the year of the bike, 2002. In the research I've done before doing this post, it appears there has been a lot of change in the running gear in the meantime, so, not sure what "pretty standard" might be. It would be ideal to just replace the cable and retain the tubes it goes in. I've got a micrometer so can measure the diameter of the existing cable.

You'll probably need the length of the cable and the type of cable end that goes into the shifter. Then it is simply a matter of running the cables and adjusting them as they stretch. Any good bike shop should have the cables.

Getting the cable length should be no problem.

When you say the pedals are out further than they should be, are you referring to the pedal itself or the arm the pedal screws into? Are you measuring from the frame?

Really just looking at the gap between the frame and the pedal ... it looks quite large, like dirt and grit can get back into the bearings (which I think is sealed). Need to get the terminology down correctly, but the pedals, or crank, is Shimano C201. The gap doesn't appear to have changed in the past three years and the "crank" (?) bolt on each side of the shaft that runs through the cartridge is tight.
This is what I've been able to find in the bike literature for the model year:
Shimano Altus/Nexave 21-speed drive train
Shifters: Shimano Revo TY-40 Twist Shifters
Crankset: Shimano Nexave T-301 48/38/28 with chain guard
Bottom Bracket: Cartridge
Front Derailleur: Shimano Nexave T-301
Rear Derailleur: Shimano Acera

Most likely the SC40 has a Shimano UN72 bottom bracket design because in 2003 it was changed to a UN73 design. Also called a BB-UN72 or -73 for Bottom Bracket. Measured the length of the Bottom Bracket and it is about 72mm which, for what its worth, coincides with the UN72 part number.
Looks like the crank should be able to be "in" about 10 > 15 mm in order to close in the gap, but who knows. Maybe it is out further so the distance from each side of the frame is uniform? (haven't checked that aspect).

 

[John Nantz]

I make my own bike cables. Have invested in a couple of simple yet durable tools for this. Buy the cable in bulk, use the existing housings unless they are damaged.

This is what I would LIKE to do. I suspect there will be more cable replacement requirements in the future and to be able to do it myself would give me a more "hands-on" maintenance capability. I have a bike stand and some tools but probably not all the ones that will be needed and that's what I'll need to find out about.

 

[jviss]

This is what I would LIKE to do. I suspect there will be more cable replacement requirements in the future and to be able to do it myself would give me a more "hands-on" maintenance capability. I have a bike stand and some tools but probably not all the ones that will be needed and that's what I'll need to find out about.

Park Tools.

I have the CN-10 cable and housing cutter, and the BT-2 "Fourth Hand" Cable Stretcher.

They are expensive, but they're the best, no B.S. Customer support is superb, too.

 

[John Nantz]

My concept of a utility bike is simplicity, I would look for a single gear combination, low enough to be able to pedal up a moderate incline while carrying a load, but not so low that it would require an uncomfortably high pedaling cadence on flat terrain.

Actually, I used to have one that more-or-less fit that description, it was a 3-speed Raleigh. Got it in the 5th grade and rode it all the way through university then after graduation just gave it away. Needed new brake pads. Never did anything to it. Never needed adjusting (no derailleur system!). This bike is also used for exercise and the local area is very hilly. The crank(?) has three gears and the derailleur has 8; however, I know one normally doesn't use all the gears BUT some of the hills are soooo steep I'm either in the lowest gear and one of the hills I have to get off and walk. Bummer.

I would do away with (remove) the derailleurs front and back, cables and shifters and using the middle front chainwheel pick a gear in the rear cog and cut a new chain to fit that combination. Less stuff, less maintenance. Regarding the pedals, is it a feel or a look? Manufacturers use the same bottom brackets and adapt them to different frames. If it is not bothersome when pedaling I would not give it a second thought. That is a nice bike and it will be suitable to convert into a good utility cycle.

Don't know that I'm ready for this make-over yet. Haven't seen one, but learned recently that some of the new bikes have only one crank sprocket in order to delete the front derailleur. That would be nice on this bike because the front derailleur is really picky.

 

[Tedd]

Really just looking at the gap between the frame and the pedal ... it looks quite large, like dirt and grit can get back into the bearings (which I think is sealed).

In my experience, what your photo shows is quite normal for the non-sprocket side of the crank assembly. All four of our bikes are like that. I think it's because the crank shaft is symmetrical and, on the sprocket side, that gap is taken up by the sprocket. But on the non-sprocket side it's open. As you say, the bearing itself is sealed.

For what it's worth, the seals seem to be very effective. For three or four years my route to work included a section of trail that was frequently flooded in the winter. (Pacific northwest weather, don't you know.) I went through water deep enough to cover the crank assembly many, many times. That's the crank assembly that's still on the bike, four years and tens of thousands of kilometers later. So, the seal must have been very effective.

 

[justsomeguy]

Maybe it is out further so the distance from each side of the frame is uniform? (haven't checked that aspect).

Well? We're waiting...

...the front derailleur is really picky.

All front derailleurs are picky. You've got to make your shifts while the drivetrain is essentially unloaded, i.e. not putting torque on the pedals, just freewheeling. Requires a little foresight.

 

[John Nantz]

In my experience, what your photo shows is quite normal for the non-sprocket side of the crank assembly. All four of our bikes are like that. I think it's because the crank shaft is symmetrical and, on the sprocket side, that gap is taken up by the sprocket. But on the non-sprocket side it's open. As you say, the bearing itself is sealed.

Tedd - great news! I've heard that just recently so, along with the "sprocket side" comment which is reasonable, I'm gong to scratch this problem off the list. Really like these kind of fix-its!

For what it's worth, the seals seem to be very effective. For three or four years my route to work included a section of trail that was frequently flooded in the winter. (Pacific northwest weather, don't you know.) I went through water deep enough to cover the crank assembly many, many times. That's the crank assembly that's still on the bike, four years and tens of thousands of kilometers later. So, the seal must have been very effective.

Totally impressive! Good to hear.
And thanks for your other posts above, like #7 & 10. I'll get back to them but only had a few minutes to reply and will get to them tomorrow. March has been rainy and the forecast is for rain every day but it's looks to be in cells (per the satellite picture). I prefer dry pavement to avoid getting all that grit on the driveline. Sure wish the city planners here would pay attention to bike trails as part of development requirements.

 

[John Nantz]

Well? We're waiting...

The unanimous opinion seems to be it's normal.

All front derailleurs are picky. You've got to make your shifts while the drivetrain is essentially unloaded, i.e. not putting torque on the pedals, just freewheeling.

I do make a point of backing off but sometimes, perhaps, maybe not fully 100%

Requires a little foresight.

Uh -Oh ......

 

[Tedd]

@John Nantz ,

I thought you'd be amused to learn that, despite my gushing about how durable my hub bearings have been, they failed today! I guess I should have kept my mouth shut. Still, after 30-some-odd-thousand kilometers I can't say they owe me anything.

 

[jssailem]

Life happens Tedd.