Blue Water Capable Sailboat
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Long list...
The captain has nothing to do with the boat being blue water rated. The captain experience level can be used to determine if a blue water vessel should be in blue water. It has to deal with issue like chainplate / standing rigging strength, displacement, construction, and fuel capacity. This is only a few items that are used to determine if a boat blue water rated. http://www.sailboatowners.com/classified/ownerview.tpl?owno=7331966074893&fno=20&brsku=7331966074893.2&bd=Hans%20Christian&p1=0&p2=1000000&xs=All&l1=1&l2=65&active=T&sb=placed&dr=de&ad=all
The captain has nothing to do with the boat being blue water rated. The captain experience level can be used to determine if a blue water vessel should be in blue water. It has to deal with issue like chainplate / standing rigging strength, displacement, construction, and fuel capacity. This is only a few items that are used to determine if a boat blue water rated. http://www.sailboatowners.com/classified/ownerview.tpl?owno=7331966074893&fno=20&brsku=7331966074893.2&bd=Hans%20Christian&p1=0&p2=1000000&xs=All&l1=1&l2=65&active=T&sb=placed&dr=de&ad=all
Read a Book
Not to be rude but you need to read a book. John Vigor has a book Roger Marshal has a book and there are many more. Some will tell you that it's the captain. well thats true superman can sail a 2X4 to antartica and back. But unless you are superman certain qualities make a boat suitable for extended passage making and others make it a good daysailer. Roger Marshall's book talks about all types John Vigor's focus is on blue water. But after reading either book you will be able to better decide on a boat to buy.
Not to be rude but you need to read a book. John Vigor has a book Roger Marshal has a book and there are many more. Some will tell you that it's the captain. well thats true superman can sail a 2X4 to antartica and back. But unless you are superman certain qualities make a boat suitable for extended passage making and others make it a good daysailer. Roger Marshall's book talks about all types John Vigor's focus is on blue water. But after reading either book you will be able to better decide on a boat to buy.
pointy end
one end of the boat has to come to a point. This helps you aim the boat at the blue water. it also helps to have a deck, so that when you take on green water, it goes away.
one end of the boat has to come to a point. This helps you aim the boat at the blue water. it also helps to have a deck, so that when you take on green water, it goes away.
blue glasses also help
Seems like this is a biweekly question. You can review the archives for lots of discussion if you wish. Personally, I think Phil nailed it - the captain is the most important consideration.
Seems like this is a biweekly question. You can review the archives for lots of discussion if you wish. Personally, I think Phil nailed it - the captain is the most important consideration.
Structural differences
A coastal boat is designed to be approx THREE times as strong as the maximum conditions it is expected to encounter. This extra 'FACTOR OF SAFETY' is derived from historical 'insurance scantlings' of what survived and what didnt. This extra safety factor enables a boat to exceed the structural design and withstand unforseen and unpredictable structural loads .... including the normal degradation of the structure due to fatigue, etc. as the boat 'ages'. A blue water boat is typically FIVE to SIX times as strong ( twice as *strong* as a coastal design) for the 'normal' conditions it is expected to encounter. Other factors of design of a blue water boat: small cockpit so that a large boarding wave with its potentially immense weight will not so load the aft end of the boat that it overwhelms the bouyancy of the boat .... and then quickly drains, etc. A blue water boat typically due to its greater mass will have a more 'seakindly' motion (slower roll period, etc.) so the boat is less tiring for its crew and less prone to cause seasickness. A blue water boat will typically also have better recovery from a knockdown .... EU standards now demand stability (recovery) for a 'blue water' design from a rollover to ~110 degress roll and regardless if the boat depends on 'form stability' or ballast to keep it 'upright'. There are a lot of 'details' that differentiate between an inshore, coastal or blue water design; but, this will hopefully give some insight. The simple answer: safer by design.
A coastal boat is designed to be approx THREE times as strong as the maximum conditions it is expected to encounter. This extra 'FACTOR OF SAFETY' is derived from historical 'insurance scantlings' of what survived and what didnt. This extra safety factor enables a boat to exceed the structural design and withstand unforseen and unpredictable structural loads .... including the normal degradation of the structure due to fatigue, etc. as the boat 'ages'. A blue water boat is typically FIVE to SIX times as strong ( twice as *strong* as a coastal design) for the 'normal' conditions it is expected to encounter. Other factors of design of a blue water boat: small cockpit so that a large boarding wave with its potentially immense weight will not so load the aft end of the boat that it overwhelms the bouyancy of the boat .... and then quickly drains, etc. A blue water boat typically due to its greater mass will have a more 'seakindly' motion (slower roll period, etc.) so the boat is less tiring for its crew and less prone to cause seasickness. A blue water boat will typically also have better recovery from a knockdown .... EU standards now demand stability (recovery) for a 'blue water' design from a rollover to ~110 degress roll and regardless if the boat depends on 'form stability' or ballast to keep it 'upright'. There are a lot of 'details' that differentiate between an inshore, coastal or blue water design; but, this will hopefully give some insight. The simple answer: safer by design.
in a nutshell...
the ability of a boat to withstand the much harsher environment of the ocean rather than coastal or inland sailing. This includes all aspects of a vessel, strenght, durability, redundancy and so on. Read a book on the subject.
the ability of a boat to withstand the much harsher environment of the ocean rather than coastal or inland sailing. This includes all aspects of a vessel, strenght, durability, redundancy and so on. Read a book on the subject.
wsimpson.....
Just curious......if you have to ask this question, then you are fairly new at sailing. So, my question to you is, why do you think you might want a blue water boat? The type of boat you need is determined by where and how you intend to sail it. Maybe you should be asking if you need a blue water boat, a coastal cruiser or a lake/bay boat. As for the captain making a boat a blue water boat, that makes as much sense as using a hang glider for a Hurricane Hunter. Tony B
Just curious......if you have to ask this question, then you are fairly new at sailing. So, my question to you is, why do you think you might want a blue water boat? The type of boat you need is determined by where and how you intend to sail it. Maybe you should be asking if you need a blue water boat, a coastal cruiser or a lake/bay boat. As for the captain making a boat a blue water boat, that makes as much sense as using a hang glider for a Hurricane Hunter. Tony B
Tony that 's a great point!!!
Heavy blue water boats are typically much slower in light winds. A friend bought a blue water boat that he used for daysailing. A daysailer is much more fun to sail in protected water. Even a weekender is better than a heavy cruiser for sailing coastal. Who wants to carry around 200 gallons of water and 100 gallons of fuel if you are just going out for the week???
Heavy blue water boats are typically much slower in light winds. A friend bought a blue water boat that he used for daysailing. A daysailer is much more fun to sail in protected water. Even a weekender is better than a heavy cruiser for sailing coastal. Who wants to carry around 200 gallons of water and 100 gallons of fuel if you are just going out for the week???
Capable
The question was blue water capable. There are people who have sailed canoes accross the oceans, There are people who have sank the best bluewater boats made and most likely killed others in the process. A good capitan will know what he needs to stack the odds in his favor a bad one won't. One thing a good captian works to avoid is driving down the throat of a major storm. So what makes it capable (not rated)? The capatian. A Catalina 32 is capable in the right hands.
The question was blue water capable. There are people who have sailed canoes accross the oceans, There are people who have sank the best bluewater boats made and most likely killed others in the process. A good capitan will know what he needs to stack the odds in his favor a bad one won't. One thing a good captian works to avoid is driving down the throat of a major storm. So what makes it capable (not rated)? The capatian. A Catalina 32 is capable in the right hands.
There's capability and then there is design
I suppose most any boat could be blue-water "capable" as long as it doesn't hit seriously adverse conditions along its way. After all, there are some out there I know who have single-handedly raced an Olson 30 (a 3,000 lb boat), or similar class, to Hawaii from San Francisco. Certainly, that boat is "blue-water capable" since it crossed approx. 2,000 n.mi. of open sea far from land over 6,000 meters of ocean depth and didn't get sunk. People, I've heard tell of, have circumnavigated in a Catalina 27!! So, there is "blue-water capability" there as well. Actually, I'm amazed at the classes of yachts that some people will take off in and sail to distant places across the "blue water." So, your question might really be one as to the difference between boats designed for extensive blue-water cruising versus those that are designed for perhaps only close-in coastal cruising. But what is extensive "blue-water cruising?" Do we mean relatively short passages of perhaps only 500 to 1000 n.mi. in decent weather along a coast line? What difference is there between cruising 100 n.mi. down your local coast, or one 1000 n.mi. away, except perhaps for the availability of close harbor? Is a couple of two-week passages per year between two points across open sea "extensive?" I suppose the real question is what boat do you want to be in when the 60-knot wind and 35' seas, and larger rogues, come and roll you over a couple of times, or when you drop 10-20 feet off a steep wave and land on your beams end. Will the boat crack like an egg shell and sink, or stove in a port light and half-fill with water? It's all about risk versus $$$ and what you're willing to accept. So, yes, a more strongly-built "blue-water" cruiser will hold up much better over the long haul; as the fellow said, it depends on what you're going to do (where you're going to go) with your boat.
I suppose most any boat could be blue-water "capable" as long as it doesn't hit seriously adverse conditions along its way. After all, there are some out there I know who have single-handedly raced an Olson 30 (a 3,000 lb boat), or similar class, to Hawaii from San Francisco. Certainly, that boat is "blue-water capable" since it crossed approx. 2,000 n.mi. of open sea far from land over 6,000 meters of ocean depth and didn't get sunk. People, I've heard tell of, have circumnavigated in a Catalina 27!! So, there is "blue-water capability" there as well. Actually, I'm amazed at the classes of yachts that some people will take off in and sail to distant places across the "blue water." So, your question might really be one as to the difference between boats designed for extensive blue-water cruising versus those that are designed for perhaps only close-in coastal cruising. But what is extensive "blue-water cruising?" Do we mean relatively short passages of perhaps only 500 to 1000 n.mi. in decent weather along a coast line? What difference is there between cruising 100 n.mi. down your local coast, or one 1000 n.mi. away, except perhaps for the availability of close harbor? Is a couple of two-week passages per year between two points across open sea "extensive?" I suppose the real question is what boat do you want to be in when the 60-knot wind and 35' seas, and larger rogues, come and roll you over a couple of times, or when you drop 10-20 feet off a steep wave and land on your beams end. Will the boat crack like an egg shell and sink, or stove in a port light and half-fill with water? It's all about risk versus $$$ and what you're willing to accept. So, yes, a more strongly-built "blue-water" cruiser will hold up much better over the long haul; as the fellow said, it depends on what you're going to do (where you're going to go) with your boat.
MoonSailor......Thanks.
That was the point that I was trying to make. I'm at work, so I have just a few mins here and a few mins there and dont always have the time to get lengthy. I have known many sailors that sold their blue-water boats for light weight coastal cruisers. The northern Gulf of Mexico (The Redneck Riviera) has little to no wind most of the summer. If you are not going to do any extensive cruising, a good coastal cruiser like a Hunter or Catalina will be more than sufficient as far as safety and fun. At 10-12 MPH winds the production boats like Hunters and Catalinas will go nicely where a blue water boat wont even hardly move. On the other hand, if you live in South Texas where the wind is always ripping, a heavier boat would be the better choice. Tony B
That was the point that I was trying to make. I'm at work, so I have just a few mins here and a few mins there and dont always have the time to get lengthy. I have known many sailors that sold their blue-water boats for light weight coastal cruisers. The northern Gulf of Mexico (The Redneck Riviera) has little to no wind most of the summer. If you are not going to do any extensive cruising, a good coastal cruiser like a Hunter or Catalina will be more than sufficient as far as safety and fun. At 10-12 MPH winds the production boats like Hunters and Catalinas will go nicely where a blue water boat wont even hardly move. On the other hand, if you live in South Texas where the wind is always ripping, a heavier boat would be the better choice. Tony B
There was a time ......
There was a time when newbe's could ask a question and get a pertainant answer. Now they get philosphical or smart ass answers and get scared away. Its OK to cut up when someone has been around for a while, but a new person might be intimidated by it. It's hard to tell a joke from a sarcastic answer when you cant see facial expressions or hear the inflection of a voice. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm on a soap box, but if I was new on here, I would feel like an idiot for asking this question by the responses to it. Tony B
There was a time when newbe's could ask a question and get a pertainant answer. Now they get philosphical or smart ass answers and get scared away. Its OK to cut up when someone has been around for a while, but a new person might be intimidated by it. It's hard to tell a joke from a sarcastic answer when you cant see facial expressions or hear the inflection of a voice. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm on a soap box, but if I was new on here, I would feel like an idiot for asking this question by the responses to it. Tony B
See for yourself
I suppose the best way to access "blue-water capability" in the consensus of sail boat designers is to go to a boat show there in Florida and go aboard any Island Packet, Cabo Rico 38, Pacific SeaCraft 37, or Vaillant 40 (if they are any longer at boat shows), and then go aboard a Catalina 380, or any recent Hunter, or even most Beneteaus, and no further explanation should be necessary. BEO
I suppose the best way to access "blue-water capability" in the consensus of sail boat designers is to go to a boat show there in Florida and go aboard any Island Packet, Cabo Rico 38, Pacific SeaCraft 37, or Vaillant 40 (if they are any longer at boat shows), and then go aboard a Catalina 380, or any recent Hunter, or even most Beneteaus, and no further explanation should be necessary. BEO
Really
Are you sure I am the one missing the point here. A 40' new Passport off the shelf with a guy who sailing experience consists of a summer on the Chesapeake, bluewater capable? I am not taking that ride. A boat that may not be considered "bluewater" but has been up graded by the owner/captain with water, elec, fuel, liferaft, epirb, drogue, parachute, radar, windmill, storm sails, backup parts, ect. Bluewater boat? More so than the others. So what is the difference. Maybe the question should have been what boat can take the most abuse. Probably a Pacific SeaCraft.
Are you sure I am the one missing the point here. A 40' new Passport off the shelf with a guy who sailing experience consists of a summer on the Chesapeake, bluewater capable? I am not taking that ride. A boat that may not be considered "bluewater" but has been up graded by the owner/captain with water, elec, fuel, liferaft, epirb, drogue, parachute, radar, windmill, storm sails, backup parts, ect. Bluewater boat? More so than the others. So what is the difference. Maybe the question should have been what boat can take the most abuse. Probably a Pacific SeaCraft.
If I read this corectly....
The original question was..."What makes a sailboat "blue water" capable". It didnt ask what makes the capt. bluewater capable. Can I assume that if someone like Dale Ernhart Jr. drove my old 4 cylinder Chevette that my car is now Indy or Datona capable? Tony B
The original question was..."What makes a sailboat "blue water" capable". It didnt ask what makes the capt. bluewater capable. Can I assume that if someone like Dale Ernhart Jr. drove my old 4 cylinder Chevette that my car is now Indy or Datona capable? Tony B
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